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Awkward Message from Overland Bound:

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Michael

Rank VII
Staff member
Expedition
Founder 500
Member

Pioneer II

8,507
Humboldt County, California, United States
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Murguia
Member #

0000

Ham Callsign
KM6YSL
Hey all…I’m a heart on my sleeves kind of guy. I do my YouTube videos in one take. It’s not scripted or planned. I don’t want to script or plan. Because of that, sometimes I do things that are not catered, packaged, or well thought out. This post is probably one of those times.

This week may be a turning point for Overland Bound. I’m not sure. I have had three "firsts" this week that my more measured and careful Michael would not respond to. I'm savvy like that. I’d leave it lay. The truth is, I care too much to not respond, and I care too much about the individuals to not let them know where we stand!

First number one: I was told by a long-time, under 500 founding member that they were having trouble signing in to our website, it was hard, difficult, and frustrating, so please remove the account and delete all posts in the forums by said individual. I understand not wanting to deal with our technical struggles as we grow and learn. I do. We are not REI, or {insert huge company with endless resources}, we are learning as we grow. We are doing this for the first time ever in our lives. Opting out is fine, but our whole mission is to share information and encourage others to get outside. I find the request to remove all post made by said individual to be repulsive, and against the founding principles of Overland Bound. We share. I reserve the personal right to revoke any founding member number from members who violate our principles. I will return your money for the badge and reclaim that number for someone else.

Two: I was accused of not being responsible. I f#$ked up, and I ACTUALLY CAUSED an e-mail blast while testing a new site theme, that spammed valued members and caused HUNDREDS of unsubscribes. I made a mistake! This person told me that I was irresponsible, and if I start a business, it’s my responsibility to make sure this never happens. This was offensive to me. I thought of my Dad, and my brothers. The way I live my life, I’m responsible for EVERYTHING. All of it. So responsible, I feel I have an obligation to empower people to rediscover themselves. To challenge themselves. To push boundaries and rediscover their connection with the Great Outdoors. It’s my job. I have a responsibility to do so.

Three: I was accused of commercializing Overland Bound because of the price of our T-Shirts, stickers, and Emblems. The individual criticized us because we are charging for things we used to do FOR FREE. I don’t know how to respond to that. We still give away our stickers FOR FREE! TO ANYONE! We do it to spread the word. It comes out of our pocket. The price of our stuff? Yes, because it is worth it. We are obsessed about quality, and quality is not cheap for us to produce. Also, I’ll be very clear on this point, Overland Bound will be as big as we can make it. If I can make it a global brand, I will. The mission is that important to me. The first rule in business is existence, without it, you help no one. Without it, Overland Bound does not exist. I will continue to do everything I can to make Overland Bound a household name.

For the first time this week I realized Overland Bound is not for everyone. I wish it were. Upon reflection, I’m OK with that. Our direction is solid, the cause essential. For all of you who get it, who have grown with us, and continue to grow with us, we thank you. Without you, Overland Bound is nothing. Continue to spread the word, push your boundaries, connect with nature, and have fun. We will see you off the grid.

Thank you, and more sincere than ever,

Michael
 

MA_Trooper

Rank VI
Member

Influencer II

3,969
Methuen, MA
First Name
Chris
Last Name
BRV
Member #

0520

Michael,
Thank you for sharing. At no point, during my time as a member, have I ever felt that you were anything but transparent about your motives, ideas, and expectations from both this site and it's members. The three points made above come as a bit of a surprise to me. I haven't been in business long but I have been in long enough to have learned that business, especially in the tech industry, make mistakes. The most responsible people in this world make mistakes. The mistake does not make a man/woman irresponsible, the reaction to the mistake does. You were notified of the spamming, some time within 24 hours the issue was resolved. That is fast, even by "REI, or {insert huge company with endless resources}" standards.

Let me tell you a short story. Ok maybe a long one, but hang in there. Several months ago my company was on the receiving end of a very effective DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attack. We host applications on our own servers for our clients. As you may guess, this means none of our clients could access any of their data or even the sites to log in to. For 48 hours our customer care team was taking calls from very angry customers and manually looking up the data they needed until the attack subsided. During that time, my team frantically tried to find ways to get our sites back up. We learned a lot from that attack. Never did anyone think a small company servicing the restaurant/service industry would be the target of one of these attacks. We made some improvements, notified our customers of the timeline of events and assured them that none of there data was lost. Many of our customers were grateful to our customer care team for there support during this malicious attack. Unfortunately, some of the less understanding ones plan to terminate their relationship with us when their contracts are up. It happens, that is just part of business. You do everything you can possibly do to win them all and some just don't want to be won, or just don't have grace enough to accept the mistakes of others. That's life I guess.

I have to disagree with you on one point, though. This site absolutely is FOR EVERYONE. It is offered to anyone with no stipulations or requirements to join. So by definition, it is for everyone. Some will choose not to accept that offer. And that is fine. Our goal remains the same. Spread the word, get outdoors, and enjoy.

This site continues to be the most positive, uplifting, and helpful site about overlanding on the web. I am proud to be a part of that.

-Chris
 

Michael

Rank VII
Staff member
Expedition
Founder 500
Member

Pioneer II

8,507
Humboldt County, California, United States
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Murguia
Member #

0000

Ham Callsign
KM6YSL
Michael,
Thank you for sharing. At no point, during my time as a member, have I ever felt that you were anything but transparent about your motives, ideas, and expectations from both this site and it's members. The three points made above come as a bit of a surprise to me. I haven't been in business long but I have been in long enough to have learned that business, especially in the tech industry, make mistakes. The most responsible people in this world make mistakes. The mistake does not make a man/woman irresponsible, the reaction to the mistake does. You were notified of the spamming, some time within 24 hours the issue was resolved. That is fast, even by "REI, or {insert huge company with endless resources}" standards.

Let me tell you a short story. Ok maybe a long one, but hang in there. Several months ago my company was on the receiving end of a very effective DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attack. We host applications on our own servers for our clients. As you may guess, this means none of our clients could access any of their data or even the sites to log in to. For 48 hours our customer care team was taking calls from very angry customers and manually looking up the data they needed until the attack subsided. During that time, my team frantically tried to find ways to get our sites back up. We learned a lot from that attack. Never did anyone think a small company servicing the restaurant/service industry would be the target of one of these attacks. We made some improvements, notified our customers of the timeline of events and assured them that none of there data was lost. Many of our customers were grateful to our customer care team for there support during this malicious attack. Unfortunately, some of the less understanding ones plan to terminate their relationship with us when their contracts are up. It happens, that is just part of business. You do everything you can possibly do to win them all and some just don't want to be won, or just don't have grace enough to accept the mistakes of others. That's life I guess.

I have to disagree with you on one point, though. This site absolutely is FOR EVERYONE. It is offered to anyone with no stipulations or requirements to join. So by definition, it is for everyone. Some will choose not to accept that offer. And that is fine. Our goal remains the same. Spread the word, get outdoors, and enjoy.

This site continues to be the most positive, uplifting, and helpful site about overlanding on the web. I am proud to be a part of that.

-Chris
Chris,
Thank you so much, and I take that good advice. It is for everyone, and will remain so.

M
 

Robert OB 33/48

Mid Europe Region Director
Expedition
Founder 500
Member
Supporter

Explorer I

4,560
Gaanderen
First Name
Robert
Last Name
Keim
Member #

0033

As written on Facebook;
Iam standing right behind you folks. Go for it, do the global brand, I will help you anyway I can.
I am, I think one of the first to join, I hope I be one of the last to give the legacy to the next generation. I love this soo much, it is now one of the best parts of my life. For me, this is the first forum, world wide that is answering to my thoughts about overland. And Iam bound to it. If someone isnt, well I hope you find the right place for you, and I hope even more, you found some joy before you say goodbye.

and supplemented by this;

1. Problems in life are to be solved together. So problems here, we solve together.
2. If you are human, you can and will be making mistakes. So, what is the problem. You get some annoyance. Is the pleasure you have here worth it? I think yes, YES (mm cant get this any bigger)
3. Commercial? If you buy a t-shirt of Nike, or whatever brand, do you complain they are commercial? Michael, Corrie, you aint commercial, you just want to have the means to spread the word. All IT geeks and just plain internet users know how much work, effort, time, and money is involved in this. So, I buy a t-shirt, I have it, and I have fun with it. And because of that, I can have more fun on this forum.
Translate I ro yourself and you have the answer about the commercialisation of this forum, better said, this group of enthoussiasts.

Please continue the way you do. Like I said. Iam backing you folks up.

Greetings from Robert
 

jdunk

Rank VI
Expedition
Founder 500
Member

Traveler III

4,282
King County, Washington, United States
First Name
Josh
Last Name
Duncan
Member #

0446

I agree 100%. At no time did I feel that the spam was intentional. I'm of the "shit happens" opinion. As long as people learn from things like that, that's all that matters to me.

As far as "merch" goes. This place isn't free to run. In money, or time.

I respect you guys a lot for taking the time out of your lives to help others learn, when you could be out exploring even more!

I've been pretty busy lately, and haven't had much time to participate, but if there's ever anything I can help with, please don't be afraid to ask!

Edit: On that note, I was inspired to get off my ass and become a "Supporter"
 
Last edited:

Lifestyle Overland

Rank VI
Founder 500
Member
Supporter
Adventure

Navigator I

4,226
United States
First Name
Kevin
Last Name
McCuiston
Member #

0102

@administrator Thanks for sharing. I understand the struggles you face with developing a new website from scratch. I know it sucks that folks can't be patient enough to work through the challenges with you, but I suppose that's the instant-gratification culture working against us.

Just like a overland journey it's going to have its ups and downs. Things are going to break, knuckles are gonna get scuffed, and we might lose our way from time to time but... that's half the fun right? Just as a perfect overland rig isn't built in a weekend, neither is a website or community. It takes time, effort, and money to make it all happen. I want you to know that all the hard work you and @CorrieOB put into this community isn't taken for granted. We appreciate it and if there's any way we can help, we're here.

As to the commercialization, it's my sincere hope that one day your only job is Overland Bound. That doesn't happen by giving away everything for free, or selling it at cost. We all count pennies and work weekends so we can buy QUALITY parts for our rigs. Why would we complain when someone else is trying to pursue their passion for overlanding while trying to pay the bills? I'm jealous, but not bitter! (BTW, I'll email my resume for future reference. :wink:)

Keep up the good work, both of you. :hearteyes::sunglasses::smiley:
 

VCeXpedition

Rank V
Member

Off-Road Ranger I

2,932
Torrance, L.A., Cal., Earth
First Name
Dan
Last Name
Rich
Member #

0582

Ham Callsign
K6DHR
I have to think that that one individual was either unusually offended in some way by the spam, or is the type of person that sues because his coffee is too hot. It is for everyone, but not everyone can fit in, which is too bad because this forum is unbelievably accepting of all types. It's likely that the "sport", if you will, is better off without him.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
 
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Reactions: Corrie and SLO Rob

GoldenStateAdv

Rank V
Member

Influencer II

2,150
Lompoc, Ca
Member #

0708

Being in sales and service for many years it sounds just like another day in the office to me. Don't let it get to you @administrator, you won't make everyone happy no matter what you do. Some people are just that way, if you give them one free thing, they will want two, and will always make a mountain out of a Mole hill.

No business ever runs perfect, and their will always be hiccups along the way. 99.8% of people know and completely understand this, but it's the .2% that will make it feel like the majority.

Keep your head up, you're doing great. Just look at what you've created from nothing...
 
Last edited:

TreXTerra

Rank V
Member

Advocate II

2,779
Salt Lake City, Utah
Member #

1028

Michael,

You are not the first website to be hacked or commandeered by someone else. You compared yourself to REI and other large companies with seemingly inexhaustible resources, but remember, even those companies get hacked. Hell, the US Government lost critical personal, background, and financial information on millions of people to hackers - and they have FBI, CIA, NSA, and a whole bunch of others from the Alphabet Soup club looking out for them. Major credit card companies, health insurance providers, no one is safe. At worst, the spam emails caused a minor inconvenience to users who had to go clean out their inbox. Sure, it's a pain in the ass, but it shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes to sort out and if that is the worst things that happens to someone today then they are having a pretty awesome day.

I don't understand the complaint about the t-shirts and other merch. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it. I've been strapped for funding in recent months, I really want to get a couple of emblems but I have had to put it off until a later date. That's what being an adult is about, not throwing a temper tantrum because you can't have the toy you want right now.

I came to Overland Bound as a refugee from Expedition Portal, I never felt welcomed there and the vibe was much, much different. I respect Clay and the rest of the ExPo team for what they do, but I just can't relate their big-budget travel, the seemingly insatiable need for drama, or all the in-fighting and flaming that takes place on their board.

One thing I've learned as a therapist is that you can't force someone to change and that no matter what you do, there are some people who you just can't please. Don't let this discourage you, as Overland Bound grows you will have times when this type of thing happens. You will probably also have to break out the ban-hammer for users who don't want to follow the guidelines; unfortunately, this is par for the course when dealing with people.

Thanks for starting Overland Bound; I like it here, yeah... I think I'll stay.
 

tom

Rank IV
Founder 500
Member

Off-Road Ranger I

1,204
San Francisco Peninsula
First Name
Tom
Last Name
Owen
Member #

101

Ham Callsign
KG6DHD
As written on Facebook;
Iam standing right behind you folks. Go for it, do the global brand, I will help you anyway I can.
I am, I think one of the first to join, I hope I be one of the last to give the legacy to the next generation. I love this soo much, it is now one of the best parts of my life. For me, this is the first forum, world wide that is answering to my thoughts about overland. And Iam bound to it. If someone isnt, well I hope you find the right place for you, and I hope even more, you found some joy before you say goodbye.

and supplemented by this;

1. Problems in life are to be solved together. So problems here, we solve together.
2. If you are human, you can and will be making mistakes. So, what is the problem. You get some annoyance. Is the pleasure you have here worth it? I think yes, YES (mm cant get this any bigger)
3. Commercial? If you buy a t-shirt of Nike, or whatever brand, do you complain they are commercial? Michael, Corrie, you aint commercial, you just want to have the means to spread the word. All IT geeks and just plain internet users know how much work, effort, time, and money is involved in this. So, I buy a t-shirt, I have it, and I have fun with it. And because of that, I can have more fun on this forum.
Translate I ro yourself and you have the answer about the commercialisation of this forum, better said, this group of enthoussiasts.

Please continue the way you do. Like I said. Iam backing you folks up.

Greetings from Robert
Robert, Love your EU Weekend idea too, BRAVO!!
 

SLO Rob

Rank VI
Staff member
Founder 500
Member

Traveler III

3,372
San Luis Obispo, CA
First Name
Rob
Last Name
Petterson
Member #

0012

I wrote something on @administrator FB page but felt compelled to do so here too. I can echo all these positive comments, they certainly are the majority. Here's what I know. About a year ago I read a post of Michael's that inspired me. I got an affordable rig and sold my sedan. I get out more than I did before and I'm happier for it. I've learned a ton and have spread that enthusiasm to more people.

I understand the frustration with spam. It took me less than a minute to remedy that. ::shrugs:: moving on. To want to delete posts...That missed the whole point of OB completely. I don't see eye to eye with that request in any way, shape, or form.

When I wanted a badge, I paid for it. When I want more stickers I pay for them. Just like any other service. So no hard feelings to anyone that this is/was an issue for. I owe a debt of gratitude to OverlandBound and to the members of this forum for no other reason than motivating and inspiring and having an impact. @administrator @CorrieOB Thank you for everything you do... other members, thank you for all the motivation and advice too. Sorry someone hit a speed bump.
 

Steve

lost again...
Founder 500
Member

Traveler III

4,312
Lorain County, OH, USA
First Name
Steve
Last Name
.
Member #

202

(Copy/Paste from Facebook)

Wow, what trivial things sometimes set people off. As many have said, the umpteen emails were easy to delete. My total cost of participation on Overland Bound (Badges, the apparently rare patch, stickers, t-shirt, monthly contribution, etc) add up to one good meal a year. What's to complain about? We're behind you, Michael and Corrie, and believe in what you're promoting! ~Steve (#0202)
 

maktruk

Rank V
Member

Pathfinder I

2,741
95046
Member #

0912

Anyone that cries about the price of a T-shirt that is obviously sold to support a forum they are a part of...well, they're not really a part of it then, are they?

BTW, I paid for 10 stickers and gave them all away already. They were free for someone, at least...
 

WUzombies

Rank V
Member
Supporter

Advocate II

2,261
Central Texas
Member #

0703

People ask me for free books, people ask me for free t-shirts, people ask me for free morale patches. Friends ask to pay for signed copies of my books because they believe in me and understand that those books cost me money. They pay for t-shirts and they pay for morale patches or other swag, even when I try to give it to them for free. They do that because they really are friends and understand how hard I work for these things they enjoy and how much it costs me to produce the swag.

Keep true to your core values, keep strong on your path. Some people will go, some people will bitch, many people will stay and champion your cause. The people who go would have gone for some other reason, they happened to have picked one.

Running an online community is hard, keeping site security is hard, keeping forums running correctly is even harder. I've been there, I've done all of those things and I understand.

Keep doing what you're doing.
 

roamingtimber

Rank V
Member

Advocate II

2,528
North Cascades, Washington
Member #

0525

You guys are doing great job of creating a community for people that isn't negative, which is hard on the Internet today. Charge for t shirts, even stickers, running this circus isn't free for you. Some people will complain no matter what and want everything for nothing. Keep trucking, you're doing just fine.
 
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Reactions: Corrie

dagen

Rank IV
Member

Advocate II

1,392
Oakland, CA
Member #

0761

I'm grateful that you exist and for the service you provide. I'm sorry to hear that there has been drama recently. I hope that it is smoother sailing from here on out. Grow your business, spread the word, and really, who doesn't want a quality product? You get what you pay for.

Keep on doing what you do. You'll continue to attract the right people following your path.