2003 Grand Cherokee Laredo

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tjZ06

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I'm glad you brought up the fan control piece as well. My PWM-style unit instructed to mount it on the cold side of the radiator, as you noted above. I did, and it seems like it's regulating the temp of the Jeep very well, though I'm still playing with settings. My first go I waited until I felt the t-stat open, then brought the adjustment down in temp (counter-clockwise) until the fan kicked on very low. This worked okay, but really was just too low. The instructions for my exact PMW don't actually give a turns of adjustment to temp change mapping, but I found other Derale units that suggested about 3.5 degrees temp for every 1 turn. I ran it clockwise 2 turns the other day and I think I'm happier. The fans start to come on around ~195, I have a 180 t-stat in it and "conventional wisdom" is to have about a 15 degree spread between t-stat and fan turn-on. I don't think I've seen it make it over 200 yet... it barely needs any fan cycle to come back down with this giant AL radiator and what would seem to be very efficient fans/shroud at this point. That said, this is all going from gauge on the dash.

Chrysler, like everybody else that actually gives you numbers on a temp gauge seems to make you want to do non-obvious math to figure out what the tick-marks mean, and doesn't give you all too many tick-marks. I suppose that's better than some GM stuff, like my '11 Silverado or '99 Z/28 (but not my '02 Z06) I had previously where everything from ~160-240 degrees just reads at 210 on the gauge. The "story" with GM goes that when they released the LS1 Fbodies (Camaro/Firebirds) for the '98 model year the temp gauge was accurate. I can attest to this from seeing friends' '98s. However, they got so many people bringing them in for service because the "temperature fluctuates drastically" that they just dumbed-down the gauge into a glorified idiot-light where it's set to display ~210 across a wide variety of actual temps. I have a tuner/gauge setup in my truck that allows me to see real temps, and it's pretty sad comparing to the factory gauge (strangely, the trans-temp GM gives you in the Driver's Information Center is spot-on).

Anyway, back to Chrysler, they have numbered marks at 100, 210, and 260 in the WJ. The distance between 100 and 210 is the same as between 210 and 260, so on the same gauge in the same sweep on one side you cover 110 degrees, on the other side you cover 50 degrees. I can only assume it's programmed to be accurate and somewhat linear in a given range of sweep, but that the distance swept for temp changes across the gauge display (and that it's all run from the PCM vs. being sending unit direct to gauge). Ignoring the land beyond 210 for now, there are 3 tick-marks between 100 and 210. One is halfway between them... so I assume that's about 155 [(210 - 100) / 2]. There is another tick on either side of that "155" tick that divides that space in half, so I assume the one clockwise past "155" is about 182.5 [(210-155) / 2 + 155]. I have a 180 t-stat, and it does seem like it opens very close to this tick-mark, supporting my assumption. Finally, there is no additional tick past the "182.5" mark before 210, but if you visually split that space, it'd be about 196.25 [(210 - 182.5) /2 + 182.5] which seems to be about where my fans kick on now. So, all of that to say I want to get one of those USB OBD-II dongles and a decent app to measure REAL ECT (and trans temp, among other things) before I bother trying to adjust too much more... oh and I need to see what it does creeping down a trail when it's 100 degrees outside and there's no natural air-flow. I've never seen the other side of 210 with this setup, and barely saw it previously, but using the same type of logic I assume the ticks are 235 for the big tick dead-center between 210 and 260 with the two ticks on either side of "235" being 222.5 and 247.5 respectively. With a 4.7 if I ever saw anything beyond that 222.5 tick I'd start to worry indeed.

Also AC over-ride definitely works (it runs the fans at 60-100% whenever the AC is on, depending on temp) but it seems like it short cycles to high operation for maybe 10 seconds every minute or two... perhaps in hotter weather the high run will be longer and it won't seem so odd, but I'm not sure I love that. Finally, the big AL radiator and 180 t-stat mean it stays riiiiiight on that 182-ish tick mark anytime it's on the freeway, but again the hottest day I've run it was in the mid-70s. So when it's 30 degrees hotter out, we'll see what changes.



So, sorry having wrote all of that I realized I got a bit specific to my build, I'll copy-paste that stuff in my thread, but you might find it useful. Back to yours, so far everything looks like it's fitting nicely and very clean work. Bummer on the mechanical fan delay, but at least that gives you a little break. Looking forward to hearing how using the former PS cooler for the trans works out. As I mentioned above I plan to get a BT-OBD-II plug setup and an app (haven't researched which is 'best' yet for the app) to monitor trans temp, among other things, soon. I'll be very curious to see if I end up needing an aux trans cooler setup. I don't intend to tow heavy, but I could see towing my 10' flat-deck trailer with my 2-seat RZR on it at some point, which is probably in the low 2k range (RZR itself is prob 1700-1800lbs).

-TJ
 
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JimBill

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This week I have been playing with the last details. The funny part is all the crap done before this post is to get to this point- add a mechanical fan for primary cooling duty and convert the hydraulic power steering cooler to a transmission cooler.

The mechanical fan finally showed up, a Derale 18" replacement clutch fan. Reworked the radiator R&R to install the fan and do a little more clean up. (Yes, the fan and clutch can go in and out the bottom of an installed radiator and shroud but I had a few things to tend to my OCD). The fan fit factory perfect. I'm a happy camper, it looks like I have decent enough access to change a serpentine on the trail if necessary.
Also the fittings for the hydraulic cooler showed up. I installed the fittings and made a bracket to pick up the third mounting point on the 99 radiator (yes, used my favorite donor, a shelf bracket cut and shaped to fit). Ready for paint and install !

So the last remaining "engineering" details are taken care of, only final assembly of the transmission cooler soft lines, fan controller, and front end plastic remains. Hope to fire this Friday and verify all is well, and begin the fun of dialing in the electric fan trigger temps. Fingers crossed nothing else comes up. Just in time, my professional workload is ramping hard so I need to concentrate on making a living for a while instead.

Technical note: The AC line is now completely clear of the 18 inch Derale 6 blade fan. The AC line mod was unnecessary and the old line could have been slightly bent upward for clearance, especially due to the fan blade shape on this fan only. When the 19" 11 blade Ford fan and clutch were test fitted, the AC line definitely had to be modified for clearance. Since I want the mechanical fan to be primary, if this setup ends up depending on the electric fan too much I will install the big Ford fan and live with the MPG drop and noise.

fan on engine.jpg Fan clearance.jpg
Fan Installed.jpg cooler.PNG

3/21/20 edit: Converting the hydraulic cooler to a transmission cooler complicated the project. If one does not do this mod, the entire power steering return circuit can be left alone and there is no need to add the '99 cooler and also trim the headlight support panel. If you do go about it, it is a clean way to add a transmission cooler to the rig using a very capable factory cooler. I scoured the internet to find out the fitting size with absolutely no luck, so just had to figure it out and verify by tapping a hole in aluminum and verifying the stock fitting fit. The thread size is 5/8-18, one of the few non-metric threads on the vehicle. Below is what fits. I used the steel fitting because the ID is larger and I did not want the possibility of restricting flow. But without the O-Ring, this is permanent since I used JB weld to seal the threads. The 180 deg was used specifically because of the tight 3/4 inch radius. This allowed just enough room to run the fitting and hose between the top of the cooler and under the radiator support bracket. You will see on the picture in the next post just how factory clean this all looks, with no hoses in front of the cooler to block flow.

Steel adapter fitting.JPG or Russel 0 ring fitting.JPG

and Jegs 180.JPG
 
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JimBill

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I'm glad you brought up the fan control piece as well. My PWM-style unit instructed to mount it on the cold side of the radiator, as you noted above. I did, and it seems like it's regulating the temp of the Jeep very well, though I'm still playing with settings. My first go I waited until I felt the t-stat open, then brought the adjustment down in temp (counter-clockwise) until the fan kicked on very low. This worked okay, but really was just too low. The instructions for my exact PMW don't actually give a turns of adjustment to temp change mapping, but I found other Derale units that suggested about 3.5 degrees temp for every 1 turn. I ran it clockwise 2 turns the other day and I think I'm happier. The fans start to come on around ~195, I have a 180 t-stat in it and "conventional wisdom" is to have about a 15 degree spread between t-stat and fan turn-on. I don't think I've seen it make it over 200 yet... it barely needs any fan cycle to come back down with this giant AL radiator and what would seem to be very efficient fans/shroud at this point. That said, this is all going from gauge on the dash.

Chrysler, like everybody else that actually gives you numbers on a temp gauge seems to make you want to do non-obvious math to figure out what the tick-marks mean, and doesn't give you all too many tick-marks. I suppose that's better than some GM stuff, like my '11 Silverado or '99 Z/28 (but not my '02 Z06) I had previously where everything from ~160-240 degrees just reads at 210 on the gauge. The "story" with GM goes that when they released the LS1 Fbodies (Camaro/Firebirds) for the '98 model year the temp gauge was accurate. I can attest to this from seeing friends' '98s. However, they got so many people bringing them in for service because the "temperature fluctuates drastically" that they just dumbed-down the gauge into a glorified idiot-light where it's set to display ~210 across a wide variety of actual temps. I have a tuner/gauge setup in my truck that allows me to see real temps, and it's pretty sad comparing to the factory gauge (strangely, the trans-temp GM gives you in the Driver's Information Center is spot-on).

Anyway, back to Chrysler, they have numbered marks at 100, 210, and 260 in the WJ. The distance between 100 and 210 is the same as between 210 and 260, so on the same gauge in the same sweep on one side you cover 110 degrees, on the other side you cover 50 degrees. I can only assume it's programmed to be accurate and somewhat linear in a given range of sweep, but that the distance swept for temp changes across the gauge display (and that it's all run from the PCM vs. being sending unit direct to gauge). Ignoring the land beyond 210 for now, there are 3 tick-marks between 100 and 210. One is halfway between them... so I assume that's about 155 [(210 - 100) / 2]. There is another tick on either side of that "155" tick that divides that space in half, so I assume the one clockwise past "155" is about 182.5 [(210-155) / 2 + 155]. I have a 180 t-stat, and it does seem like it opens very close to this tick-mark, supporting my assumption. Finally, there is no additional tick past the "182.5" mark before 210, but if you visually split that space, it'd be about 196.25 [(210 - 182.5) /2 + 182.5] which seems to be about where my fans kick on now. So, all of that to say I want to get one of those USB OBD-II dongles and a decent app to measure REAL ECT (and trans temp, among other things) before I bother trying to adjust too much more... oh and I need to see what it does creeping down a trail when it's 100 degrees outside and there's no natural air-flow. I've never seen the other side of 210 with this setup, and barely saw it previously, but using the same type of logic I assume the ticks are 235 for the big tick dead-center between 210 and 260 with the two ticks on either side of "235" being 222.5 and 247.5 respectively. With a 4.7 if I ever saw anything beyond that 222.5 tick I'd start to worry indeed.

Also AC over-ride definitely works (it runs the fans at 60-100% whenever the AC is on, depending on temp) but it seems like it short cycles to high operation for maybe 10 seconds every minute or two... perhaps in hotter weather the high run will be longer and it won't seem so odd, but I'm not sure I love that. Finally, the big AL radiator and 180 t-stat mean it stays riiiiiight on that 182-ish tick mark anytime it's on the freeway, but again the hottest day I've run it was in the mid-70s. So when it's 30 degrees hotter out, we'll see what changes.



So, sorry having wrote all of that I realized I got a bit specific to my build, I'll copy-paste that stuff in my thread, but you might find it useful. Back to yours, so far everything looks like it's fitting nicely and very clean work. Bummer on the mechanical fan delay, but at least that gives you a little break. Looking forward to hearing how using the former PS cooler for the trans works out. As I mentioned above I plan to get a BT-OBD-II plug setup and an app (haven't researched which is 'best' yet for the app) to monitor trans temp, among other things, soon. I'll be very curious to see if I end up needing an aux trans cooler setup. I don't intend to tow heavy, but I could see towing my 10' flat-deck trailer with my 2-seat RZR on it at some point, which is probably in the low 2k range (RZR itself is prob 1700-1800lbs).

-TJ
Thanks for the info. I remember the GM temp gauge fiasco now that you mention it.
My plan is..... for the mechanical fan to hold temp at 195 with the factory thermostat, and if temp climbs, trigger the electric fan on at 200 degrees at 60% power. At 215 degrees the electric fan ramps to 100% power. Theoretically I should never see above 215 degrees with a fully functioning cooling system. I don't know if the temp of this engine is stable or erratic for one. Second, who knows if the fan controller (and especially the push in probe) has the resolution necessary to set at a 5 degree delta from thermostat opening, but I'm going to give it a shot!
 

tjZ06

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Thanks for the info. I remember the GM temp gauge fiasco now that you mention it.
My plan is..... for the mechanical fan to hold temp at 195 with the factory thermostat, and if temp climbs, trigger the electric fan on at 200 degrees at 60% power. At 215 degrees the electric fan ramps to 100% power. Theoretically I should never see above 215 degrees with a fully functioning cooling system. I don't know if the temp of this engine is stable or erratic for one. Second, who knows if the fan controller (and especially the push in probe) has the resolution necessary to set at a 5 degree delta from thermostat opening, but I'm going to give it a shot!
Solid plan, and if mine is any indication you will have temp well under control. Also, good news that you can R&R a belt on the trail without too much trouble...

-TJ
 

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Final assembly!

Mounted and wired up the fan controller. All electrical splices crimped, soldered, and covered with heat shrink. After the AC condenser missed two trucks in a row ( and arrived 2 days after promised), finished putting it all back together.. I am very happy in how the hydraulic to transmission cooler swap came together. It took some time routing the hoses and now the left side of the radiator is very very busy with stuff, but it came together nicely. There was room and it actually worked better to run the lines above and below the cooler from the Russell 180 degree fittings.

Trans cooler detail.JPG

Done no plastic.jpg

I fired it up and bled the cooling system and also jacked the front tires off the ground to "bleed" the power steering system. On fire up, there was momentary timing chain slap. I suspect the tensioners had to fill up with oil. But it quieted right down and settled down to running normal. Once I was satisfied all was reasonably well, I shut it off and put the front plastic on. Only two notable mods to stock parts were required. To make sure there was no rubbing on the top 180 deg fitting, the radiator support was relieved of some metal. And the headlight support panel required a little relieving to clear the '99 power steering cooler. Once together, I took a nice 25 mile test drive.

bracket trim.JPG Panel Trim.JPG

A few things showed up to address. First, parts woes continue. The new radiator drain valve is slowly leaking, and won't tighten without slipping in the threads. I will have to drain the radiator and see what I see, if nothing is apparent then I will just dry it out and epoxy it sealed. Second, although temp was perfect and the mechanical fan spins, I do not think the clutch is working correctly. It is way too loose. Being it was only 59 degrees today, no issues with idling or test drive. I will install the junkyard clutch I have and see if it acts different, or if it's just me. The AC condenser had one bad scar right on the o ring surface for one of the connections. Not sure if it will hold or not. Worse case I will have to take the front plastic off and see if I can repair. Will know for sure when I bring it in to have the AC recharged.

DONE.jpg temp gauge.jpg

Lastly, I could not get the electric fan to trigger on from the temp probe. My theory is the temp range of the controller might be too narrow, and since I ran the proble on the cool side of the radiator I can't get temp into the controller trigger range. For now I have the controller set at the coolest setting. Also I will need to get the AC charged before I can test the AC signal taken from the AC relay. Right now with no pressure in the system, the safety switch has the system dead. The electric fan system does work, when testing the manual override circuit it comes on and spins the correct direction.

All told, this took 3x the time and money I thought. But while I was there.... The biggest pain in the arse has been (and continues to be....) defective brand new parts. I should recover a few hundred back when I sort out returning some of the pure crap I received. The funnest part was seeing months of planning come together and having the "engineering" I did come together. I am generally pleased in my effort, one will have to look really hard to tell this Jeep didn't leave the factory this way.

I will drive it to work and back for the next few weeks and see what shakes out. And I will need to stress test the cooling system as well to make sure it can handle anything.

So does anyone know a good firewall bulkhead to pass wiring through? I need to install the fan override switch in the cab. I have a plan on where I want to put it.....another little project has sparked!
 

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JimBill

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I have been slowly attending to the loose ends.
The day before the Shelter in Place order took hold, the AC condenser (wrong part) was dropped off for UPS return.
Yesterday I fixed the Washer Fluid Level alarm. On initial assembly I did not install the level sensor float sensor and jumpered the connection. Turns out this circuit wants an open to not alarm. Since there was some resistance in the float sensor and don't know long term what the computer circuit will handle, I simply popped off the float from the sensor, connected the sensor to the harness, and tucked it away behind the bottle. No more alarm and the computer is happy. And I am fine self monitoring the washer fluid level.
Lastly I installed the fan on/off overide switch. A 3 position switch is used for override on/ auto / override off. The electric fan is backup and also has a controller doing it's thing, so rather than going through the pain of finding a firewall bulkhead and tearing the dash apart to run wiring, I found a good spot to put the switch in the engine compartment. I have no issue with popping the hood to turn the fan off for a water crossing, or turn it on for a day of 4 low creeping, towing, or triple digit temperatures. Also if my AC trigger works, I can always hit the AC button and the fan will come on at 60% speed.

P_20200320_130325.jpg P_20200320_150812.jpg

P_20200320_130423.jpg
 

ThundahBeagle

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Swapped out the stock Silverblade wheels for the Wrangled steelies. Offset is 1/2 inch less, giving me an inch wider track and breathing room for the rear shocks. The change is subtle.... and I like the no nonsense look.

Before and after pics of shock clearance:

View attachment 132470View attachment 132471View attachment 132472
I havent even read this whole thread yet but I am watching and appreciate it. I have a 14 GMC Sierra, and a '99 Jeep WJ.

Does the Wrangler steel wheel offset also apply to the wrangler alloys? I'll have to look at mine, now that I've seen this.

Mine is lifted a little over 2 inches. Not with a budget boost, but with Iron Rock Offroad coils springs, brand new Crown Automotive perch isolators, and Pro Comp 9000 series shocks and moog, stock size sway bar links all around. Nothing special, no quick disconnect.

The stock wheel/tire combo looked a little small and a cheaped out by purchasing a set of Wrangler alloy rims with semi-worn tires. It was cheaper than buying new tires alone.
There IS some rub at full turn going backwards, but I'm sure some trimming could fix that.
As it is, these tires are larger in diameter than the stock ones, so the spare does not fit in the spare well. I've placed some tools and other do-dads i might need inside the spare hatch under the floor, and for now the spare takes up the bulk of my regular cargo space.

The ride is very nice and comfortable. In my case, I had death wabble at 55mph over strafing potholes. I replaced the entire tie rod since separating the 20 year-old, New England-driven ends would have been a nightmare. I went ahead and changed the entire steering linkage as well. I have new stock lower control arms but havent replaced them yet.

Like I said, the ride is great, I just have to decide what new tires to get.

About that blasted fuel tank...i hate the fact that the tanks on these WJ's straps to the skid plate which then bolts to the underside. Once those skid plates get rusty, you have to remove everything.

As you can probably see, I'm just going modest and trying to keep as much stock as possible to keep things the least complicated
 

ThundahBeagle

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Also, I have the bullet-proof 4.0 liter 6 cylinder. It may not have the power of the 4.7 v8, but it gets a little better fuel economy and I dont have to worry about that iron block vs aluminum heads issue if things get a little hot. My fan is mechanical, though I may look at adding an electric.

Thanks. For all the useful info
 

tjZ06

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Also, I have the bullet-proof 4.0 liter 6 cylinder. It may not have the power of the 4.7 v8, but it gets a little better fuel economy and I dont have to worry about that iron block vs aluminum heads issue if things get a little hot. My fan is mechanical, though I may look at adding an electric.

Thanks. For all the useful info
What sort of MPG are you getting? I think it's a common misconception that the 4.0L Grands get better MPG than the 4.7Ls. Most 4.0L owners I talk to get in the lower teens on the freeway. Honestly the whole "bullet proof 4.0L" and "4.7s are junk" stuff is overblown, IMHO. I've seen just as many 4.0Ls with cracked heads and things like that. Of course, I'm saying this having just had to replace my 4.7, lol.

-TJ
 

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I can get high teens on the highway, and almost but not quite to 20/21 on the highway if i baby and all is in alignment, not much cargo, etc. By no means am I saying the 4.7 is junk. Nice engine. But I'd had Chrysler products in the past with iron block, aluminum heads. For whatever reason, at least for a long stretch there in the 80's and 90's, Chrysler never learned or never bothered to come up with a good solution to the difference in expansion and contraction rates. It didnt take as much to warp their aluminum heads, so except for the Grand Cherokee, I didnt go back to any other Chrysler at all, let alone one with aluminum heads.

I personally have not seen many 4.0's with cracked or warped heads, YMMV.
 

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Does the Wrangler steel wheel offset also apply to the wrangler alloys? I'll have to look at mine, now that I've seen this.
I'm not sure on the alloys, it has been a while since I looked up the information. A faint bell rings for 5 3/4, but that may be a false memory. The internet can tell you the backspacing of any stock wheel, you will just have to dig a little searching on jeep model/year and wheel type.
My understanding is most 5 on 5 pattern alloys are 17 inch, and I was pretty dead set on 16s. Stock WJ alloys have a 6 inch back spacing, the steelies have 5 1/2, and most aftermarket seems to have 4 or 4 1/2. I was looking for 5 inches, but had to settle for 5 1/2. All told they fit great. The thing to remember with the WJ is keeping the wheels in as far as you can limits rubbing. The less backspacing you have, the more you will rub with all things being equal. For whatever reason, the first thing on these rigs to rub is the right front, when turning and going in reverse. Just weird!
I'm with you, I am trying to keep my WJ relatively sedate and stock appearing, so using Wrangler wheels of any flavor are a good way to do that. Careful shopping and sometimes they come cheap. I bought the steelies for 10 bucks each! For the spare, a 245/75/16 or 265/70/16 (30.5 diam) is about the best you will fit in there. And at that, usually it takes a little wear on the tire to fit. That is the WJ curse we all are fighting. Keep tire size conservative or figure out another spot for the spare.
 

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Yesterday I had the AC recharged and learned a little bit. I pulled the fan override on signal from the AC clutch relay output so the fan will trigger on anytime the clutch is energized. Others have pulled from the pressure switch. In all cases, this results in the fan constantly cycling on and off with the fan clutch. In reality, they are the same signal. Once the system is on-line the clutch on/off signal is dictated by the system pressure.

The AC clutch energizes when both the command is given (AC on button or climate control command) and the pressure switch says the pressure is high enough to safely operate. The clutch then energizes and the AC system starts working. When wired up to the electric fan controller, the electric fan turns on. As R134 passes through the condenser, it looses heat by design and at an accelerated pace due to the electric fan airflow. With the loss of heat, the pressure also drops. When pressure drops, it eventually reaches "too low". AC Compressor turns off. Fan turns off. Pressure builds, and repeat. The system ends up in a nonstop loop cycle of clutch and fan cycling on and off. (Pulling the signal from the ECU input from the cabin AC ON switch will stop your electric fan from cycling on and off, but will drastically speed up the clutch cycling loop. So this isn't a solution either).

So when testing the AC system, especially in cool weather, the condenser does its job well and the on/off/on/off of the compressor is exaggerated. Come the hot summer, and this will be muted somewhat. For us guys that have greatly helped the cooling capability of our WJs, the airflow through the radiator from the electric fan coming on with the AC, the yo yo clutch affect is severe.

So what I learned- simply ignore triggering the electric fan(s) from the AC system. Trust the new mod has the capacity to shrug off the AC system load. Let the electric fan controller work on water temperature alone and with the switched override YOU control. Your AC clutch will thank you, as well as your sanity.

On that note, that was the last loose end. THE COOLING MOD is now considered complete! Soon I will post a final parts list on what was actually used. Other than maybe fine tuning once the summer heat hits, everything works, looks stock, and looks unmolested. Not too bad for timing chain tensioner replacement and reconstructive surgery outward. Most was accomplished with factory replacement parts, with the only aftermarket being the fan controller, mechanical fan, and fittings for the hydraulic cooler.

Cheers

Engine Bay.jpg

clean grill.jpg

New Normal Temp.jpg
 
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tjZ06

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Nice work, and thanks for the run-down on the AC over-ride. I am leaning towards your way of thinking, and might disconnect my AC over-ride to the controller for a bit and just see how things work... so long as just regular engine fan operation based off of coolant temp, or air moving because of vehicle speed keeps enough flow across the condenser it'll be fine and keep both the fans and the compressor clutch from the constant cycle loop. It's super easy for me to just disconnect it for now and monitor AC performance and clutch cycling.

-TJ
 

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Added upgraded lighting. Intent was to greatly increase the capability of the fog lights for low visibility situations like fog, dust, snow, and heavy rain. Used 4x4 Fabworks brackets and KC C3 amber spots wired to the fog light circuit. Stock fog lights will eventually go away with a front bumper trim.

The hardest part of the installation is working out the alignment. With the headlight support panel on to use as guide, positioned the lights and marked the location. Removed support, drilled pilot holes, and installed the brackets with self tapping screws. (the brackets are qood quality, but the manufacturer could have made life a lot easier if they had designed to use the hole on each side already available). Self tappers are not my favorite but it would be very hard to get hardware underneath the bracket. Should the radiator ever come out again I may just change the hardware to a nut/bolt combo.

Went through the test fitting routine, and had to relieve the hydraulic cooler, backside of the grill, and slide the brackets as far back towards the radiator as I could get them. This now places only about 2/3 of the bracket on the sheet metal. Once installed they do show a little vibration, so back to my earlier comment, utilizing the existing hole in the sheet metal would make the bracket base triangular and more stable.

Aimed the beams to between fog and driving position per KC's instructions. I played a little up and down my country road. I think they will do what I wanted.

Brackets.jpg

Holes.jpg

Mounted.jpg

Fitment.jpg

All on.jpg

Light Pattern.jpg

Finished.jpg

Two things now come to mind.
To help with vibration, I will make a plate that ties both brackets together, and leans against the hood latch support rods. That will lock it all in.
Second, if I do the plate, I have room for a third light at the center - maybe a flood light on a separate circuit and switch.
Things to think about should I get bored.....

EDIT 7/22/20: KC light cubes were replaced with Rigid diffused amber fog cubes that are DOT compliant. These lights replace my factory fog lights, so I wanted to stay fully legal should the need arise. As expected the fog light beam is low and wide, as apposed to the spot beam on the KC lights. Each pattern has it's benefit, so for each their own.
 
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tjZ06

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Well, that confirms I definitely can't use those brackets on my setup... where they bolt to your crash-bar is totally removed on my rig for the winch-mount. I imagine I could customize them, and I actually got a set just to play around with at some point.

-TJ
 

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Went to Pick & Pull looking for a front bumper to use as a trimming guinea pig, found one off a 99 limited already removed and good enough.

Also found a 99 trans cooler and hard lines. I'm having trouble with one of the hose connections weeping on my setup, so what the heck. Since I have had so much practice these last few months, install wasn't too bad. Really cleaned up that side of the radiator and drastically reduced the soft hose in the system. I wish I would have found this 2 months ago!

P_20200411_162232.jpg
 
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It was 90 degrees at my house today, so decided to go on a little test run to test the cooling system. Ran a 55 mile trip, with 15 minutes pulling a dirt grade in 4 low and AC on. Temp climbed to 210, then dipped about 205.
Not bad, it used to hit 215 and want to climb from there, but not spectacular, as i'd prefer it stayed at 195.
But that is with the ac signal not connected to the fan controller and only a guesstimate at the controller setting. The electric fan did come on though. I will slightly lower the controller temp to get the electric to kick on sooner.
The controller starts the fan at 60% and 10 more degrees kicks in 100%. So of the thermostat is 195, the electric comes on at 200, then at 210 everything is 100%. Not a lot of wiggle room as I lower the trigger as close to 195 as I can.
Also I was wary of the out of the box feel on the fan clutch, so I will try the junkyard clutch I have laying around and see if it acts a little better as the temps rise.
So fundamentally the cooling system and strategy appears to work, I may be able to tighten the controls a little but also I may need to get used to 195-210 as normal temp range.

EDIT 7/22/20: Junkyard stuck clutch fan was installed and ended up softer than the Hayden. I reinstalled the Hayden and called it good.
 
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tjZ06

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It was 90 degrees at my house today, so decided to go on a little test run to test the cooling system. Ran a 55 mile trip, with 15 minutes pulling a dirt grade in 4 low and AC on. Temp climbed to 210, then dipped about 205.
Not bad, it used to hit 215 and want to climb from there, but not spectacular, as i'd prefer it stayed at 195.
I agree, 195 is "better" but 210 going up a grade with the AC on in 4-Low for 15 minutes ain't bad! I'd call it a success, but like anything there is room for improvement, of course.

But that is with the ac signal not connected to the fan controller and only a guesstimate at the controller setting. The electric fan did come on though. I will slightly lower the controller temp to get the electric to kick on sooner.
The controller starts the fan at 60% and 10 more degrees kicks in 100%. So of the thermostat is 195, the electric comes on at 200, then at 210 everything is 100%. Not a lot of wiggle room as I lower the trigger as close to 195 as I can.
Also I was wary of the out of the box feel on the fan clutch, so I will try the junkyard clutch I have laying around and see if it acts a little better as the temps rise.
So fundamentally the cooling system and strategy appears to work, I may be able to tighten the controls a little but also I may need to get used to 195-210 as normal temp range.
I'm dealing with the same "small window" for tuning my fan control as well. I have a 180 t-stat but tried to setup the fan to come on around 195, as I've read 15 degrees is about optimal between t-stat and fans. I don't recall how many degrees before the Derale PWM kicks to 100%, but I'm pretty confident I've never heard them at 100% and I've yet to get it over 200 degrees. I am still dealing with the fan short-cycling issue you broke down so well with the AC-trigger. At this stage, I'm leaving it like it is until I get on a trail on a hot day with the AC cranking. I think it'll be fine at that point, but on cooler days just driving around town it certainly cycles VERY short.

-TJ
 

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Yesterday finally started messing with the front bumper trimming. Kind of. Previously the windshield washer fluid bottle was relocation and amber LED cube lights installed using the fog light circuit (and replacing the fog lights). It was time to remove the fog lights.

Behind the flog lights is the bottom of the plastic fender liner. With the fog lights removed, something would need to be done with the fender liners. I figured I will get this all taken care of before I trim the bumper. And a bumper trim will not be needed for a while as the lift and bigger tires is a ways off.

All over YouTube are examples of how to trim the bumper skin, but nobody mentions what they do with the liner. So below is what I did with the liner.

Here is the liner in it's natural state.
P_20200522_171219.jpg

First I installed another retainer by drilling a hole through the body tab and liner.
P_20200522_173121.jpg

Second I cut away and removed the inner fender liner mounting ear.
P_20200522_173129.jpg

Then I folded over the liner onto the crash brace, cutting a slit to accommodate the sheet metal ear. Sorry, crappy picture.
P_20200522_173344.jpg

Lastly, more drilling and more trim retainers installed, the liner relaxed into position using a heat gun, a little more trimming, and a little paint pen to cover the blade marks. Just a note- after drilling paint the new bare metal with a paint pen or the like. Also the fender liner is very amiable for reforming with a heat gun.
P_20200522_174037.jpg

The finished fender liner mod still protects the horns behind from direct splash it and looks like this:
P_20200522_174816.jpg

On the bumper skin trimmed out the fog light molding.
P_20200522_181557.jpg

With everything back together here is how the final product looks. Ready for further trimming when I need to.
P_20200522_182539.jpg P_20200522_182528.jpg
 

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Somewhere in this thread I think I made mention that I thought more flex is hidden in this presently stock based suspension. I have slowly been cleaning up the loose ends that were not addressed by the previous owner's budget boost installation. The stock length front way bar end links were replaced with proper length (for the lift) quick disconnects, and for the rear I went through a few extended links that I just didn't work out. (bushings popping out and the like). So I resorted to making a spacer for underneath the link bracket and installing factory replacement rear links. Technically this works well enough but I just felt it was just too bound up to work well. Also I was always curious if the 1" rear sway bar was a bit much, and wanted to try a little factory bar (1/2" ???).

Found Tereflex 1744500 Sway Bar Links for a JK with 2.5" lift to be the exact length I was going for (3" longer than stock). The top bushing construction and swivel stud look to be as flexy as you can get. Despite having a bad experience with Teraflex with a set of front disconnects I ended up throwing in the trash, these links are very well engineered and executed. Also I sourced a factory bar from the junkyard just to see how the WJ will react. Installation did require mods- the top bushing brackets simply needed to be spread a little bit and the sway bar bolt holes needed to be opened up a little bit.

So far I am very happy with the ride on the tore up pavement roads around my house, it handles rough road a lot smoother. The ramp test showed a huge improvement in rear axle flex, although that is unarguably the spaghetti thin rear sway bar but physics dictate the flexible swivel stud and bushing, and longer lever, can do nothing but help. I have yet to take it on the highway or have a load on the roof, so time will tell if the trade in rear way bar diameter is livable. If I find the rear too loose, I will simply reinstall the 1" bar and likely end up in between where I was and where I am now. To Be Continued.....

Compare.PNG installed.PNG

Ramp 1.PNG
Ramp 2.PNG