2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Build

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OTH Overland

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Well, believe it or not I drove the WJ home last week. The tune still needs a little work, and in 105+ ambient temps it would run 210-220 in traffic which is totally safe (and what almost all modern Hemis run stock anyway) but I got a little pinging once it was 210+. A few other odds and ends, but I might be using this thing this fall...

-TJ
Glad to see you have finally had some good luck it really an awesome build, We really miss our WJ wish we did not sell it, but too many vehicles and something had to go lol.
 

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Well, believe it or not I drove the WJ home last week. The tune still needs a little work, and in 105+ ambient temps it would run 210-220 in traffic ......
-TJ
Nice! It's been a long project for you. Feel good to be out in the "wild" with it?
My WJ is in the garage with a battery tender hooked up. Needed to clean up the garage and last weekend finally did the front caliper and rotor R&R to clear the boxes off the workbench, since they have been in my way for over 5 months now. lol.
Sold the Tahoe and now have a 2021 RAM 1500 with the crazy E-Torque Hemi (don't judge me, the price was right). I can get it to ping on 89 octane on 90+ degree days, forget 87 octane in the summer!. FYI it ran 228 degrees water temp up on Sanora pass and Leavitt Lake trail, so your temps are in line with factory. But I bet you are far more demanding than the factory engineers and will get it sorted.
Cheers
 

tjZ06

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Glad to see you have finally had some good luck it really an awesome build, We really miss our WJ wish we did not sell it, but too many vehicles and something had to go lol.
Thanks! Too many vehicles here too, but I'm far to deep in the WJ to ever get rid of it, lol.

Nice! It's been a long project for you. Feel good to be out in the "wild" with it?
My WJ is in the garage with a battery tender hooked up. Needed to clean up the garage and last weekend finally did the front caliper and rotor R&R to clear the boxes off the workbench, since they have been in my way for over 5 months now. lol.
Sold the Tahoe and now have a 2021 RAM 1500 with the crazy E-Torque Hemi (don't judge me, the price was right). I can get it to ping on 89 octane on 90+ degree days, forget 87 octane in the summer!. FYI it ran 228 degrees water temp up on Sanora pass and Leavitt Lake trail, so your temps are in line with factory. But I bet you are far more demanding than the factory engineers and will get it sorted.
Cheers
Yeah, I've had 6 factory GenIII Hemi vehicles (3 x WK2 Grands, 3 x RAMs) all tended to just run at 210-220 anyway. The Trackhawk and TRX would run cooler (lower fan actuation) in the Track modes... but otherwise that's just how they all run. I don't have a problem with 210-220, I just need to pull some timing in the tune so it doesn't ping on 91 in 100+ ambient and 210+ ECT. I also have a 2.0T 2 door JL and it runs anywhere from high 190s to low 220s (the fans don't even come on full until about 225).

Like you said, the temps are technically fine, it's more down to the tune to make it happy with those temps. I'd rather keep it cooler, but with that big engine stuffed in a little WJ engine bay (and WJ-sized rad) there's only so much I can expect in 100+ temps.



BTW, it's wild how different 35"s look on a WJ vs. a 2 door JL:
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JimBill

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Thanks! Too many vehicles here too, but I'm far to deep in the WJ to ever get rid of it, lol.



Yeah, I've had 6 factory GenIII Hemi vehicles (3 x WK2 Grands, 3 x RAMs) all tended to just run at 210-220 anyway. The Trackhawk and TRX would run cooler (lower fan actuation) in the Track modes... but otherwise that's just how they all run. I don't have a problem with 210-220, I just need to pull some timing in the tune so it doesn't ping on 91 in 100+ ambient and 210+ ECT. I also have a 2.0T 2 door JL and it runs anywhere from high 190s to low 220s (the fans don't even come on full until about 225).

Like you said, the temps are technically fine, it's more down to the tune to make it happy with those temps. I'd rather keep it cooler, but with that big engine stuffed in a little WJ engine bay (and WJ-sized rad) there's only so much I can expect in 100+ temps.



BTW, it's wild how different 35"s look on a WJ vs. a 2 door JL:
IMG_0622.jpeg
IMG_0621.jpeg
The WJ aerodynamics are against you, combined with stuffed engine bay. Too high pressure under vehicle to help remove air from engine compartment. I'll run hottest with full load and at highway speed. Air can't get through the radiator and out.
Still working on my quick disconnect air dam, have materials and a target in my head. The HK radiator guard is longe since been installed, giving me a perfect foundation for whatever I plan to do. This will force higher pressure in front of radiator and lower pressure under car to promote air flow out of engine compartment. You can push all you want but in the end it has to have somewhere to go. Plus strategically placed hood vents to help air escape as well. HaHa also adding attic vents and straightening out a 75 year old poorly built house, so have it on the brain.
I had the front valence off of the RAM for the Leavitt lake trip, and it did run hotter for the same reason. I didn't have my front skid in yet, adding that to block off under bumper to crossmember air from being pushed up by front diff etc. helped settle things down to less wild temp swings.
In my drag racing days I would have thermal wrapped the intake and filter boxes, but neither my WJ or Ram are about max HP. Both have ample HP for my need and reliability is where my brain is at. First trip with the Ram the ride in was rough enough to toast the factory battery, oh how fun was it to get the RAM back running with a dead cell battery. Thankfully it didn't brick. But I digress, this is your thread!
 

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The WJ aerodynamics are against you, combined with stuffed engine bay. Too high pressure under vehicle to help remove air from engine compartment. I'll run hottest with full load and at highway speed. Air can't get through the radiator and out.
Still working on my quick disconnect air dam, have materials and a target in my head. The HK radiator guard is longe since been installed, giving me a perfect foundation for whatever I plan to do. This will force higher pressure in front of radiator and lower pressure under car to promote air flow out of engine compartment. You can push all you want but in the end it has to have somewhere to go. Plus strategically placed hood vents to help air escape as well. HaHa also adding attic vents and straightening out a 75 year old poorly built house, so have it on the brain.
I had the front valence off of the RAM for the Leavitt lake trip, and it did run hotter for the same reason. I didn't have my front skid in yet, adding that to block off under bumper to crossmember air from being pushed up by front diff etc. helped settle things down to less wild temp swings.
In my drag racing days I would have thermal wrapped the intake and filter boxes, but neither my WJ or Ram are about max HP. Both have ample HP for my need and reliability is where my brain is at. First trip with the Ram the ride in was rough enough to toast the factory battery, oh how fun was it to get the RAM back running with a dead cell battery. Thankfully it didn't brick. But I digress, this is your thread!
Exactly. A buddy with a WJ had a lot of success with an airdam under his core support/rad skid. I'd like to set something like that up that removes pretty quickly (I was thinking nut-certs in the core support so it's just maybe 4-6 bolts to pull out... I'd throw the bolts back in when the dam is off to keep mud and stuff out of the threads). I'll probably mess with that "someday" but for now it's just sorting out and proving this thing works...

-TJ
 
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tjZ06

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After many years, off to Moab today... running Whiterim Wed-Fri. Yes, I know it's an easy trail not technical wheeling; I've run it many times in my SAS'ed Duramax and Fourwheel Camper, but just looking for a mild shake-down after so many years.

A quick recap for those that don't want to scroll back 15 pages: 426cui GenIII Hemi, ATS built 545RFE, 242HD (with six pinion planetary), JK Rubicon Recon axles (fully built/trussed, RCVs/300M shafts, 4.88s, factory Rubi E-lockers), big brakes, highly customized Trail Forged long arm (triple bypass shocks all around, hydro bumps, coil over front), bumpers, skids, winch, sliders, custom tank tuck that doubles as rear anti-rock sway mount etc. etc. etc.

Just hoping to find the rest of the little gremlins and sort out what needs addressed before it's really ready to hit the trails without the trailer. ;)

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-TJ
 

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I'm still loving your WJ! It looks amazing and I'm sure it's a blast offroad. I'm about to sell mine. Nowhere near as nice as yours, but we had some adventures.
 

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Well, things went about as could be expected for the WJ...

Monday my buddy got to my house in Vegas, and we debated taking the WJ or the little 2 door JL Rubicon (with the X package and 35"s etc.) I picked up. Just sitting in the garage the WJ was leaking coolant onto the floor from what I initially thought was the overflow area. It also seemed like it had a power steering or trans leak somewhere (both run ATF) but minor. The head unit wasn't working totally right (I need to shorten up all the harnesses... they're sort of smashed into the dash to get the HU in) and there were a few other little things. We decided to try to take care of the issues and take the WJ if we could. We found the coolant leak, it turned out to just be a loose clamp on one of the heater lines at the core so that was an easy fix. We never found the PS or ATF leak, but cleaned things up underneath and drove around a good bit and it still seemed dry underneath. We took care of a few of the other issues, but not all, and still decided to call it good enough and take it.

Tuesday we got into Moab in the early afternoon, unloaded the WJ, and set the RV up. My buddy hadn't been to Moab before, so I decided to run him down to see town with the WJ. All went well, we got the obligatory hats, t-shirts and stickers. On the way back I decided to run out 128 along the Colorado for my buddy to see, and ended up running up to Fisher Towers. All was going well, up in Moab in the cooler air the WJ ran nice and cold, the AC worked great (other than the blend doors making racket everytime you turn it on/off...), and overall it drove very well.

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Tues night we racked out early to get a good early start on the day Wed, which turned out to be crucial. Our campsite for the night of Wed was only ~20 miles into White Rim. Things started well, and we left the RV park around 9 and headed to town to top up fuel in both rigs and exchange a propane cylinder for the Howl. Things started well, and we got out ot the Shafer trail, aired down a bit, and started into White Rim. Of course, that didn't last long...

...coming down the Shafer switchbacks an issue with the tune became more apparent. Slowing down coming to a stop it sort of surges. I think the tuner was having issues getting a nice idle, and with some stalling coming to a stop. I think the solution (but need to get HP tuners on this laptop to verify) they came up with was leaving the throttle a little cracked on decel. Well, the problem with that is it gives no engine braking. It was apparent on the street, but not super noticeable or problematic. On the trail, it means I have to ride the brakes way too much on descents. So, I stopped on the switchbacks to go to 4L (which honestly I usually do on steep descents anyway) but that seemed to only exacerbate the issue.

It wanted to "run away" very slightly, but enough to be no good for the situation... if you know the Shafer entrance into White Rim you know what I mean. In 4L, 1st gear in the trans it wanted to just run at about 5k and was doing very little braking for me. I was focusing on the trail, and getting it stopped again to take it out of low by the time I started smelling smoke, then I saw smoke, and a LOT of it.

Because the exhausts exit just in front of the rear tires they were pushing the smoke that was there out, making it look like it was coming from the exhaust. I figured it sucked a ton of oil through the PCV so it made sense. A quick rev in N once stopped showed nothing out the exhaust though, and while the smoke had mostly dissipated I was still seeing/smelling some from under-hood and kind of coming in around the dash/firewall. I hit the radio and said "I'm going to make sure I'm not on fire..." and jumped out.

Sure enough, I was on fire.

The rear main had pushed out (we didn't verify that on the trail, but it's been verified now) and it was pissing oil right onto the exhaust where it crosses under the pan from the passenger side to the driver side, where it ignited. I've had blow-by issues on a track car in the past that led to a full catch can spraying oil on a header, but it never ever ignited. It's usually pretty tough to get oil to burn by itself. Perhaps some of the PS/ATF was around to get it going, IDK. Either way I had a water bottle in the cupholder I dumped on it immediately, which mostly got it out but not totally. I had a little garden sprayer I use for washing hands and stuff I got to work with and got it out, right as a passerby and my trail buddy came up with their extinguishers. We didn't end up needing the extinguishers, but stayed there a good 15min just keeping an eye on it and coming up with our gameplan.

Luckily my trail buddy's rig is a beast. It's a '94 Ram 2500 with the coveted 12V and a stick. It also has compound turbos, so it makes plenty of power and torque. With his FWC in the back he had plenty of weight for traction as well. Being a stick, trans temp wouldn't be an issue pulling me back up the switchbacks either. So, we got him turned around in a tiny wide spot just past the WJ, then I ran the WJ just long enough to get turned around while he stood by with the extinguisher. It was risky, since running it caused a pretty steady stream of oil to dump right on the exhaust, but everything had cooled some and it was maybe 10-15 seconds. Besides that, we really didn't have a choice.

IMG_0679.jpeg

After having this view back up the switchbacks and to the Shafer trailhead we put the rest of our plan into action. We ran back to town in my buddy's truck and picked up a drop hitch for his truck's 2" receiver since he didn't have one with him and my RV is 2.5 or 3", and to pick up a rental Jeep for me. We took the rental and his truck back to the RV park, we unhitched the trailer, I moved the RV, we hitched him up to the trailer, and we headed back to the trail leaving the rental with the RV. Loading up the WJ went pretty quickly, and we headed back to the RV. There, we dumped the WJ/trailer (didn't even hitch back up to the RV to save time) and I swapped all my gear into the rental. We left the RV park about 4, and got to camp about 6:30pm with time to setup before dark.

We had 2 nights total on the trail, and nothing else went wrong so it was still a great trip, and the views NEVER disappoint on White Rim.

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-TJ
 

tjZ06

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Here's the culprit:

1759200795053.png



Obviously I need to see why it's building so much crank case pressure that it blew the rear main out. Of course it's a "built" motor and the ring gap is a bit bigger than OEM, but still it seems excessive. A better breather system would help (it's running the stock PCV right now) but I'd prefer to stay with a sealed PCV type system, vs. going to a catch can and open breathing (and I see people do both a lot, but if you vent the crankcase to atmosphere *and* run PCV you are pulling unmetered air into the intake...) but we'll see what I end up doing there.

Trans is out for the rear main, trying to scramble for a big trip to Hollister Hills this weekend, but I suspect I'll be taking the Barbie Jeep (as I've named the 2 door JL).

1759200769123.png

-TJ
 

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That sucks about the rear main. I had to replace mine before, and it was a pain in the butt. From what I understand, the WJ actually has it easy in that regard compared to a lot of other vehicles. For me, once my WJ hit about 160k or 170k miles, it was like playing whack-a-mole with leaks.

Glad to see you still were able to have a decent time out there despite the setback.