OB Approved - CO2 vs. Air Compressors | Page 5 | OVERLAND BOUND COMMUNITY

OB Approved CO2 vs. Air Compressors

Discussion in 'Overland Bound Boot Camp' started by 4xFar Adventures, Jul 9, 2016.

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  1. 9Mike2

    9Mike2 Rank V
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    But you can't compress Nitrogen into the same volume as CO2 so your tank will not last as long
     
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  2. T.Shack

    T.Shack Rank V
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    Tha
    That is very true.
     
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  3. HeliSniper

    HeliSniper Rank V
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    Air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases.
    Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1% at sea level, and 0.4% over the entire atmosphere.

    So if regular old Air is 78.09% nitrogen and 20.95% oxygen, the balance being trace gases, we are only talking about roughly 21% of your tire fill for something that cost what?? and not everyone has compressed nitrogen. So you would have to carry a bottle of compressed gas (high pressure) unlike the 850psi constant of CO2.

    In regards to the moisture, CO2 being a harvested gas does not inherently have moisture in it. Even though CO2 is water soluble, in the form we would get it, welding supply or Fire Extinguisher refill location, the liquid has been processed and is dry. That being said, the temperature of the gas as it vaporizes and the moisture in the air can and will cause condensation (more the closer you are to sea level and relative humidity in the air). Also, I have had air in my tires my whole life with about 1% water vapor in it and I tend to ware the tires out before any rust or other oxidation can form on the inside to cause any damage.

    Bottom line, with Consumer Reports saying that the tire filled with Nitrogen and the tire filled with Air lost 2.2psi and 3.2psi respectively over the course of a year, I will opt to stay with CO2 and/or Air.
     
  4. Utilityman

    Utilityman Rank I
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    #84 Utilityman, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
    24BF3A5C-EE02-4254-9746-DDC858250F00.jpeg 54AC5D21-E583-4CCE-80CD-7443C1EF6F85.jpeg Overlanding is expensive to get in to. I always used to chance it with almost nothing in the repair and recovery category. This little guy should do the trick till I decide what ARB portable set up I want.



    Edit. Returned the viair for an ARB. I’m much happier with the performance.
     
  5. Nickzero

    Nickzero Rank VI
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    I am no friggen scientist however I can tell you that a Co2 tank is going to suite you better than a battery driven air compressor. For 1. The tank will hold more than enough Co2 for you and your friends out on your multi day excursion. 2. It's cheap as hell to refill + many places to refill out there in society. 3. Its friggen portable (which means you can drag it 20 rigs back to supply aid to another rig). You are not limited by just your hose length from a compressor. 4. A Co2 tank really cant ever break or let you down compared to a battery driven compressor with little moving parts and seals. 5. The tank wont put a draw on your trucks battery the compressor will. 6. Depending on the type of tank / reg you have you can even quickly power pneumatic air tools. 7. Tanks look cooler and is much quieter compared to a compressor especially when camping around 50 sleeping over landers.

    So thats 7 reasons to get a Co2 tanker!
    Yes, I love my Power Tank!
    12727 Out!
     
  6. titicaca

    titicaca Rank 0

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    #86 titicaca, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
    What are the downsides of CO2 with respect to moisture/corrosion:
    - Tires - Will they wear out before rot happens? What if you have a summer and winter sets, would that extended lifespan expose any issues?
    - Rims - This is more of a long term concern.
    - TPMS sensors - how long will they last?

    What are the downsides of CO2 with respect temperature affecting pressure fluctuations? One scenario being when winter brings cold temps, you will see a much bigger pressure drop on CO2 filled tires. Second scenario might be if you air up in cold mountains and drive down to a warm valley and end up overinflated. I guess you just have keep an eye on it to manage it.
     
  7. 9Mike2

    9Mike2 Rank V
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    Most of what you wrote is not true with CO2, The gas is dried during the liquid faze of making it, the regular air can have most moisture in it because it is just compressed, that's why most good Garages have water traps on their air compressors, and with the use of Co2 now for five years We have had no problems with any of our TPM senors ,And as far as the inflation goes that can happen to any gas at different alt's.....
     
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  8. titicaca

    titicaca Rank 0

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    Fair enough. I was just reading Power Tank's Q&A to dispel the myths I mentioned. Power Tank has a vested interest in this matter but the explanation is credible.

    https://powertank.com/apps/help-cen...-the-co2-in-my-tires-if-co2-is-a-liquid-gas-1
    How can there be no moisture in the CO2 in my tires if CO2 is a liquid gas?
    CO2 has the unique characteristic of being able to be stored in a dense, amorphous, liquid state under pressure (~800 psi). When CO2 is at atmospheric pressure it goes from a solid (dry ice, -100F) straight to a gas (smoke on top of the Halloween punch bowl) and skips the liquid state. Don't get CO2 confused with a more familiar chemical called H2O which goes from a solid (-32F) to a liquid and then to a gas. Does H2O condense into moisture with temperature changes? Yes. Does CO2? No. Does CO2 cause H2O to condense more with temperature changes and cause equal clump? No and no.


    https://powertank.com/pages/nitrogen-truths-and-myths
    THE IDEAL GAS LAW FORMULA might help explain why different gases expand at virtually the same rate as their temperature increases.

    A gas may be completely described by its makeup, pressure, temperature, and volume. Where P is the pressure, V is the volume, n is the number of mols of gas, T is the absolute temperature, and R is the Universal Gas Constant,

    Ideal Gas Law: PV = nRT

    This formula is the "Ideal Gas Law Formula." Although there is no such thing as an ideal gas the formula is pretty accurate for N2, CO2, and oxygen as we assume that the gas molecules are point masses and the collisions of the molecules are totally elastic. (A completely elastic collision means that the energy of the molecules before a collision equals the energy of the molecules after a collision, or, to put it another way, there is no attraction among the molecules.) The formula becomes less accurate as the gas becomes very compressed and as the temperature decreases but here "very compressed" pressures are well above even the highest tire pressures and "decreased temperatures" are extremely cold, too cold for tires. There are some correction factors for both of these factors for each gas to convert it to a Real Gas Law Formula, but the Ideal Gas Law is a good estimation of the way N2, CO2 and "air" should react through temperature changes. What does all this mean? It simply means that "air", nitrogen vapor, and CO2 vapor should all react pretty much the same within normal tire pressures (0-120 PSI) and temperatures.
     
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