Who carrys a firearm with them while camping?

[K-G]

Edit - I should note that this isn't really directed at the OP, or any one in particular. Just putting my thoughts out there - for better or worse.

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This can certainly be a topic that generates a ton of passionate discussion, and I'm not looking to "pick any fights". I'm gonna provide my .02, and if I say something that offends someone, please understand that is not my intention. I am in LE, but this is being written from my personal carry perspective.

With that, I am a staunch supporter of our 2A rights here in the US - but I also believe that many of my 2A "camp mates" are not exactly helping the cause.

While I carry on my person at almost all times, I may also have a secondary firearm in my truck. That secondary firearm will be dictated on where I'm going and what I'm doing. Obviously, if I'm hunting I will have a tool for that purpose. If it is more defensive in nature, I will have a shotgun or 45-70 rifle. I know those to be very effective against the four legged threat.

As for my body carry firearm, it will almost always be a 9mm, possibly a 10mm depending on my environment.

Please, to anyone who carries:

• Practice, practice, practice.
  • Get a good coach, and not just some knucklehead who has a lot of guns or watched John Wick 8 times.
  • Likewise, don't take the Homer Simpson approach and just buy it and "figure it out".
  • Practice often, several times a year.
  • Practice retention.
  • Practice other self defense methods.
  • Practice de-escalation techniques.
• Keep your equipment in high working order - much as I assume you do with your rig.
• Keep your equipment secured.
  • If on your body, in a quality holster that will retain it well.
  • If in your vehicle, locked and secured.
  • If you have kids, or will have them around, keep that stuff locked up or secured on you!
• If you are gonna enjoy some adult beverages, lock that stuff up. If you can't drink without going overboard, you shouldn't have a gun near you anyhow.
• Know the gun laws in your jurisdiction and those of any you may travel to.
  • We have it good here in UT but if I travel to Cali I'm gonna have to make adjustments. Not happy about it, but that's the deal.
• Know the laws as they pertain to self defense.
  • There are great YouTube videos by reputable attorneys that will scare the hell out of you.
  • A good, morally defensible, and justifiable shoot doesn't necessarily mean you won't rack up a crap ton of legal costs - or even go to jail.
  • If someone is being a jack wagon, and you show or otherwise make them aware you have a firearm, you will likely be considered the aggressor.
  • De-escalate or use your other self defense tools first.
• Conceal carry
  • Know the laws for your local jurisdictions, and any you may travel too. There is a possibility you will have to lock your sidearm up in the trunk of your car as you transit some places. It can get weird, but better to know the law than try to claim ignorance.
• Open carry
  • Just because you can, doesn't mean you should
  • Know your "audience", I'd much rather keep my side arm out of sight (but readily accessible on my body) than have people get all weird around me because they are uncomfortable.
  • Please, don't be that guy that brings their AR or Desert Eagle to the grocery store. I saw this often in AK, and it is just low brow and classless (IMO). It also doesn't help advance the cause of responsible 2A advocates.
  • If you do open carry, awesome. Make sure you have a good, well kept side arm, and a quality, well kept holster with some semblance of retention. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people out with their POS pawn shop special hanging out of a nylon holster made for another firearm all together. There is not a chance in 100 that they could keep someone from taking it from them.
• If you go out to BLM or other public lands to shoot, be respectful. Make sure you know the entirety the surroundings, what's beyond your target, who is in the area, etc. As with all of our outdoor practices, please cleanup after yourself.
• If you encounter LE, make sure you advise them you are armed, but be smart about how you do it.
  • Know the local laws WRT LE encounters.
• And of course:
  • Treat all fire arms as if they are loaded.
  • Never point a firearm (loaded or otherwise) at a person
  • Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are justified in firing the weapon
  • Clearly identify your target, and know what is beyond it

Thanks for reading. Best wishes.
KG

//END RANT

 

[K-G]

@GrundleJuice A handgun is generally not recommended for any use against larger predator's, regardless of caliber.

For bear in in BC I carry rifled slugs for my 12 gauge, but I have single ball rubber slug as my 1st round. The rubber round has been found work well against bluff charges that might go either way with black bears, in grizzly country it is all bear slugs.
Even with bear slugs it is suggested you aim for the shoulders, given the speed bears travel and the short range if they are actually charging they will likely keep coming if hit center of mass.
I practice for that but fortunately I have never needed to test it.

And in Canada if I pull the shotgun on a human even a serious low life I can expect to spend my retirement savings trying to defend myself in court. But so far in the last 30 years with one exception that has not been a problem.

I love the rubber round. When I lived in AK I had three different rounds for my shotgun by the door. A noise maker to send nuisance bears off my property. A bean bag round to send a slightly stronger message should the first not be received. A slug for if it ever got real. For the record, I never need more than the noise maker.

 

[armyRN]

Personal defense? Either a 9mm or 45 ACP. It depends on how concealed I'm wanting to carry.

Critter defense? Depends on the bear threat. Bears - Marlin GBL 45-70 or 12 gauge pump with bear slugs. No bear threat? Lever action 1892 44 Mag or AR-14 or 15 (somebody will get the reference).

 

[Scooter1378]

I dont leave home without 1 or maybe 2

 

[Quper]

In the mountains where where I'm at it's a good idea to have something. I have never had to use it but theres been quite a few instances that I'm glad I had it.

 

[RAMM]

Carrying Firearms is not really a thing where I live.
But for folks in the U.S. I do have a question.
Are there issues with taking firearms between states?

 

[GrundleJuice]

@GrundleJuice A handgun is generally not recommended for any use against larger predator's, regardless of caliber.

For bear in in BC I carry rifled slugs for my 12 gauge, but I have single ball rubber slug as my 1st round. The rubber round has been found work well against bluff charges that might go either way with black bears, in grizzly country it is all bear slugs.
Even with bear slugs it is suggested you aim for the shoulders, given the speed bears travel and the short range if they are actually charging they will likely keep coming if hit center of mass.
I practice for that but fortunately I have never needed to test it.

And in Canada if I pull the shotgun on a human even a serious low life I can expect to spend my retirement savings trying to defend myself in court. But so far in the last 30 years with one exception that has not been a problem.

I appreciate the on topic and constructive reply. All of these opinions in this thread are really not of any use except to the people that already agree with them, which is a waste of time.

So, I don't have a shotgun and the only high powered weapon I own is a K31, which while a cool rifle, is only going to punch nice clean holes through whatever it hits. So for now, my options are the 9mm XDs or the .40 CZ75 SP-01. I admit that I am mostly ignorant to the finer details of ammo types and really only have these weapons because I wanted to be well trained in the safe use of them because I find guns fascinating, just as I find many novel and ingenious mechanical things. I believe that I am well trained enough and respect the potential enough but would still like input on any specific rounds that would be useful for defense against grey wolves, black bear and other potential northern Midwest/great lakes and Appalachia animals that could be dangerous. I already carry bear spray when on my bike in areas of risk, this would just be something for in the vehicle/tent. If you don't feel that there is any one or type of round that is useful for those situations, I can understand that, too.

I'm not against owning a shotgun, but I would prefer to not carry around something that difficult to conceal while traveling.

 

[K-G]

Carrying Firearms is not really a thing where I live.
But for folks in the U.S. I do have a question.
Are there issues with taking firearms between states?

Well, it can get kinda complicated. I won't try and dissect all of the various laws, but will make an attempt to tackle two categories, both pertaining to handguns and to my specific region of the country - the Mountain West

Open Carry -
Colorado and Oregon are permissive open carry with local restrictions. For example, you can open carry anywhere in Colorado save for the city and county of Denver, which require a license.
Utah is Licensed open carry. Unless I carry with an open chamber, in which case I can open carry.
California, who the hell knows. Pick a day of the week and roll the dice for where you are.
The rest of the west, near as I can tell, is permissive to open carry.

Concealed carry-
Wyoming is a constitutional concealed carry and shall issue a permit to residents.
California - again, who knows for sure, but they can, if they feel like it and the suns in the right phase, issue a permit, assuming they want to and they like you.
Arizona and Idaho constitutional concealed carry and shall issue to residents and non-residents alike
Others - shall issue to residents and non-residents alike

Bear in mind that if your firearm is one requiring a ATF tax stamp, then transport across state lines becomes a bit more complicated.

All in all, lots of restrictions to this particular constitutional right, and the hits just keep coming.

I'm just glad I live in the west. Aside from California, it's manageable.

Edit -
Again, my observations. Take em for what they are worth.

 

[rgallant]

@GrundleJuice K31's are nice rifles but a wee bit big to lug about as you noted.

Well for bears get a big can of bear spray and possibly a bear banger, those will be more effective than a pistol. The trick with bear banger its it has to land in front of the bear, so the bear runs away from it. bear spry you want a fogger and deploy towards the head, it has to hit the muzzle and eyes to be effective.

I will note there were only 10 combined reported black and grizzly attacks in 2019,that resultied in death or injury in North America so still very rare. Bluff charges are far more common , you back away and the bear bounces and grunts a lot makes a few small charges and you both go your way.
In truth cub terrify me, they are small curious critters with massively protective moms. I had one good swim as result of cub showing up on either side me while fishing a lake shore, mom was not happy but let me go my way in lake.

As to wolves or coyotes a handgun would work but remember they tend to be pack animals, generally neither are a threat to humans, 1 known attack last year by each species. In that case the 40 with Hollow point and more than 1 mag. If the bangs do not scare them you are going to have to hit 1 or more, and they will not be an easy target.

Cougars, nothing matters they are ambush hunters, if one attacks you will know when 100+ pounds hits you, having said that Cougar attacks are extremely rare maybe 3 to 10 in all of North America in a year.

 

[rgallant]

I should have noted when I see a bear I grab my camera 1st, even when they are on the deck, I like bears. This guy just kept the tree between me and him as I passed, it was actually pretty funny

 

[Wyrickb]

Yup I carry everyday in accordance with local laws. Hopefully I never have to use it but the option is nice. If you decide to carry make sure you get training, there are a lot of good folks out there with very good classes.

 

[GrundleJuice]

@GrundleJuice K31's are nice rifles but a wee bit big to lug about as you noted.

Well for bears get a big can of bear spray and possibly a bear banger, those will be more effective than a pistol. The trick with bear banger its it has to land in front of the bear, so the bear runs away from it. bear spry you want a fogger and deploy towards the head, it has to hit the muzzle and eyes to be effective.

I will note there were only 10 combined reported black and grizzly attacks in 2019,that resultied in death or injury in North America so still very rare. Bluff charges are far more common , you back away and the bear bounces and grunts a lot makes a few small charges and you both go your way.
In truth cub terrify me, they are small curious critters with massively protective moms. I had one good swim as result of cub showing up on either side me while fishing a lake shore, mom was not happy but let me go my way in lake.

As to wolves or coyotes a handgun would work but remember they tend to be pack animals, generally neither are a threat to humans, 1 known attack last year by each species. In that case the 40 with Hollow point and more than 1 mag. If the bangs do not scare them you are going to have to hit 1 or more, and they will not be an easy target.

Cougars, nothing matters they are ambush hunters, if one attacks you will know when 100+ pounds hits you, having said that Cougar attacks are extremely rare maybe 3 to 10 in all of North America in a year.

That info makes me think bear spray is the best thing to carry and leaving the firearms at home is the choice to make for the geographic areas I plan to travel. Hmmmm.... Things to consider.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[PCO6]

I'm not sure if this the case everywhere but in the store where I buy bear spray it's not an off the shelf item. You ask for it, they take out a binder, record who you are, your contact info, record the number on the can and have you sign for it. Basically they want make sure you're not using it for other purposes. It's far from a perfect system as without the empty can they can't get back to you. I think it's just their way of telling you to not be an idiot. To me it's a bit of an invasion. As you're filling in your info, all hand written, you can read all of the names, etc. of others they have sold it to.

 

[GrundleJuice]

I'm not sure if this the case everywhere but in the store where I buy bear spray it's not an off the shelf item. You ask for it, they take out a binder, record who you are, your contact info, record the number on the can and have you sign for it. Basically they want make sure you're not using it for other purposes. It's far from a perfect system as without the empty can they can't get back to you. I think it's just their way of telling you to not be an idiot. To me it's a bit of an invasion. As you're filling in your info, all hand written, you can read all of the names, etc. of others they have sold it to.

What if you refuse? Why not just fill in bogus info if privacy or other concern?

 

[PCO6]

What if you refuse? Why not just fill in bogus info if privacy or other concern?

It's not a big deal to me. I've been going to this store for 30+ years and I'm just curious to know if it's done like this in other places.

 

[GrundleJuice]

It's not a big deal to me. I've been going to this store for 30+ years and I'm just curious to know if it's done like this in other places.

I've only bought in store once at REI and I don't remember doing any of that. The couple other online purchases have been on an account so I suppose they have some of that info. Maybe a state thing?

 

[Downs]

Well, this thread went to shit almost immediately. How about ammo types for wildlife defense? Pretty much the same strategy as for human defense? When remote I may carry a .40SW as my 9mm seems like a less ideal caliber for the potential animal I may need to defend from. They both carry 14+1 as the .40 is full size and the 9 is compact for carry.

Ammoland looked into this and the numbers surprised many folks. Not a true study but it seems as though even 9mm is capable of ending encounters.

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber

Using a pistol to defend against bear attacks seems to be a viable option.

www.ammoland.com

 

[64Trvlr]

Utah is Licensed open carry. Unless I carry with an open chamber, in which case I can open carry

I agree with most of what you said but I am curious about what you call "an open chamber". In my time in the military, working with the Feds, or as an instructor I have never heard of that.

 

[Downs]

Utah is Licensed open carry. Unless I carry with an open chamber, in which case I can open carry

I agree with most of what you said but I am curious about what you call "an open chamber". In my time in the military, working with the Feds, or as an instructor I have never heard of that.

Condition 3 is what im assuming he's talking about.

 

[K-G]

Condition 3 is what im assuming he's talking about.

Yeah, it's a weird quirk of the Utah law. It really doesn't apply to me as I am LE, so I shouldn't have used "I", but was trying to illustrate a civilian carrying. Apparently, you can open carry in Utah without a permit but only if you don't have a round chambered. Full mags are ok (pistols not ok?) IDK. If you have a permit, you are good to go. I miss Alaska, was much simpler up there.