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CG87

CG87

Rank I
Member

Off-Road Ranger I

When my parents got there nobody was around. My dad had to remove his roof bars when going around this because the hill is steep off camera. Looks like they were squeezing by someone on the trail and rolled port side.
 
Anak

Anak

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

BCNP4runner said:
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In all honesty, that looks like a park management problem, not a general population problem.

I doubt all that trash would have fit in those cans. The cans are pretty close to full as it is.

It would appear that the general population attempted to dispose of their trash where it belonged and the capacity simply wasn't there. It is entirely possible that the trash was originally piled up in/on the cans and was subsequently dispersed by either wind or animals.

At any rate, the park management needs to either install more cans (and ideally cans with lids) or empty the existing cans on a more frequent basis.

But of course it is never the fault of management. We all know management consists of nothing but the best and brightest. Far better to get rid of the general population so management can congratulate itself on solving the problem without spending any more money on infrastructure or service.
 
L

LostInThought

Rank VI
Member

Influencer I

Anak said:
In all honesty, that looks like a park management problem, not a general population problem.

I doubt all that trash would have fit in those cans. The cans are pretty close to full as it is.

It would appear that the general population attempted to dispose of their trash where it belonged and the capacity simply wasn't there. It is entirely possible that the trash was originally piled up in/on the cans and was subsequently dispersed by either wind or animals.

At any rate, the park management needs to either install more cans (and ideally cans with lids) or empty the existing cans on a more frequent basis.

But of course it is never the fault of management. We all know management consists of nothing but the best and brightest. Far better to get rid of the general population so management can congratulate itself on solving the problem without spending any more money on infrastructure or service.
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I'm sure the pit toilets filled themselves with trash bags and then filled the toilet shelters with more bags when the pits were full. Some of the pit toilets around here were shutdown for months while the FS tried to find someone who would clean them out. The signs are clear. People just don't care. Truth is, trash cans or not, I see messes like this at dispersed sites too. It's the reason I carry a box of yard bags in my truck. The state here charges daily use fees so they can afford to clean up after these people. Maybe if we're just going to lay it all on the gov't anyway, they should add a "clean-up fee" onto their "daily entrance fees", too.
 
Anak

Anak

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

Don't get me wrong. I am not claiming the general population is in line for sainthood. I worked Adopt-a-Trail for years. I have helped clean up entire truck loads of roofing that folks have dumped on our public trails. I have bought reacher/grabber tools for the express purpose of extricating bottles and cans out of prickly places where a hand just should not go.

But that picture represents a different problem, and one which should rest on shoulders which absolutely should know better and which should be accountable to all of us. There are simple solutions to that one. Failure to implement them is shameful.
 
Desert Runner

Desert Runner

Rank VII
Launch Member

Expedition Master III

BCNP4runner said:
I'm sure the pit toilets filled themselves with trash bags and then filled the toilet shelters with more bags when the pits were full. Some of the pit toilets around here were shutdown for months while the FS tried to find someone who would clean them out. The signs are clear. People just don't care. Truth is, trash cans or not, I see messes like this at dispersed sites too. It's the reason I carry a box of yard bags in my truck. The state here charges daily use fees so they can afford to clean up after these people. Maybe if we're just going to lay it all on the gov't anyway, they should add a "clean-up fee" onto their "daily entrance fees", too.
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Your post reminded me of what I saw in comparing the Forest Service at Mt Charleston (Southern NV), and the Park Service at Lake Mead. The Park Service had a entrance fee, the Forest Service did not. On my morning/daily work route, I would see the Park service vehicles cleaning the pit toilets/trash cans daily along the North Shore public pull-outs. The Pit toilets were never excessively full or dirty. I can not say the same for the forest service. I watched/observed the decline in maintenance of their bathroom facilities and trash pick-up. The pit toilets usually pretty full, the TP was minimal on a daily basis, the trash cans were fairly full on any particular day. Also the camp sites, while not excessively dirty, did have some minimal trash about. Some of the metal picnic tables were fairly dirty from food spillage and could have used a pressure wash.
I did ask about it with them and got a general acknowledgement about it, but never really saw a improvement.

In a similar vein. the State had a outside contract with a organization to clean the restrooms along US-95. At Armagosa Jct. (rest Area) they were there every day, cleaning and restocking the bathrooms and trash cans. The toilets were in 2 buildings, next to each other (4 total) and were of the 'flush' variety.
 
BCMoto

BCMoto

Rank IV

Influencer II

Flipper said:
Paradise lost, my friend, with Overlanding being the new craze, expect a lot more closures. I could go into a rant but I will leave it at that.

I run a van and have be camping/ overlanding longer than you been on this earth and have been places you only dream about. Maybe I would think the same of you.
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And thats totally fine too!
 
genocache

genocache

Rank V
Launch Member

Advocate I

LostWoods

LostWoods

Rank IV
Launch Member

Member III

genocache said:
So what are YOU proposing we do?

I see Crested Butte as very popular among a wide variety of user groups, campers, mtbr's, climber's, ovlander's, hiker's, etc.
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Can't really stop it other than calling people out but I've always had a full bag policy to try and mitigate... I specifically carry one of those janitor pincer tools in my rig so I can pick up others' trash without having to worry about touching something unsafe like a broken bottle or punctured beer can.

People off trail and damaging natural resources is going to be the larger cultural issue that you can't really do anything about but restrict access. This is why so many trails in the east are the best kept secret - people are shitty and will inevitably ruin it for everyone.
 
Billiebob

Billiebob

Rank V
Launch Member

Member III

Road said:
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There's no need for that. Certainly not in the spirit of this place.
.
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no. this is spot on......
things you don't like happen for just cause.
figure it out or go home.
 
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Road

Road

Not into ranks, titles or points.
Launch Member

Advocate III

BCNP4runner said:
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It would be interesting to know the context behind this image, and when it was made.

All the trash on the ground could have easily come from one or two bags of properly disposed of trash, destroyed by critters and then spread around by them or winds. Looks like a recent melt, too, and the trash may have been blown around by a storm that created the snowfall.

I came back to my own camp one time after being gone only a couple hours to find a bag of trash I'd collected after Memorial Day parties, that I had under the trailer all tied up nice and tidy, had been torn apart by raccoons and strewn around all over camp. It looked much like the mess in this image.

Another possible situation is that it happened during the govt shutdown that affected all sorts of parks and wildlife areas with layoffs, skeletal staffs of leos only, etc.

I was on Padre during the shutdown and the bins and dumpsters were overflowing because there were no park personnel; they'd all been furloughed until Washington said otherwise. Same when I got to west Texas; tons of tourists still out and about during the shutdown, many of whom were in rental cars, so regularly disposed of their trash at park cans and dumpsters, which quickly overflowed far beyond capacity and made it all susceptible to animals making a mess.

A few of us beach campers on PINS, as well as at parks all over the country, took it upon ourselves to police the area, pass out bags to campers, rebag trash at the dumpsters, and stock and clean the restroom at the end of the access road, etc.

I've been at state parks in pre and post busy season when they have a much smaller staff to maintain and clean thousands of acres and because of limited budgets, can only do so much and depend on the help from campers. Some states are far more restrictive with their budgets for recreation than others.

The point is that an image can encourage us to think the worst right off, that casual visitors or campers intentionally threw their trash on the ground in willful ignorance or that local management is to blame in some way.

The truth could be far different.

.
 
slomatt

slomatt

Rank V

Influencer I

Anak said:
It would appear that the general population attempted to dispose of their trash where it belonged and the capacity simply wasn't there. It is entirely possible that the trash was originally piled up in/on the cans and was subsequently dispersed by either wind or animals.
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I agree with you that more trash cans (or more frequent emptying) would have helped in this case, but no matter the number of cans there is always a limit to how much garbage they can handle. Once the cans are full then they are no longer an appropriate place to leave additional trash, and people need to take it home or find another place to dispose of it. Even if people had tried to pile it on the cans that is not a responsible action. If my can at home is full I don't just dump the rest of my garbage on the ground, I wait for the next trash pickup. I always wonder if people who cause these kinds of messes have garbage strewn all over their yards at home.
 
leeloo

leeloo

Rank V
Launch Member

Advocate I

It is a problem everywhere. My guess this is the reason that lead some countries to forbid wild camping and off roading completely, like Germany and some others in Europe.
 
Murphy Slaw

Murphy Slaw

Rank V
Launch Member

Member II

leeloo said:
It is a problem everywhere.
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The problem is a lack of respect. For nature. For other people's property. For your brother/sister.

Cities, parks, oceans, tent cities, the whole World is getting trashy-er by the minute.

It's no wonder gates are closing....
 
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