Trail Security

  • Hi Guest, you may choose a LIGHT or DARK theme that works best for you with the "Style Chooser" button at the bottom left on this page!

Christiaan

Rank I
Member

Contributor I

233
San Jose
I appreciate your position and see where it does indeed have merit, but having a military background, I have seen first hand that some people only respond to violence. As sad as that may be it, it is the way of the world. There are quite a few people capable of coming up to you and killing you for the contents of your wallet. The only way to stop them is by showing them that they might die. They obviously do not mind taking your life for $100, but they are not willing to risk THEIR life for it. Most times just showing a gun is enough to convey that message. Also, it not always about people wanting to steal from you, I see a lot of road rage and quite a few instances where extreme violence is being deployed merely because someone was cut off in traffic.

So...when I carry a gun, it is not for the desire to hurt, but rather to send the message of: "I value my life. Do you value yours?"

Again, I appreciate your position as well as I do your understanding my sense of humor. Quite a few people get me and some find me to be offensive...which is great because that is how I weed out non-hackers. :grinning:

Peace to you and your family and safe travels!
@grubworm, totally get your logic, and (unfortunately) I have to agree with your point that to some people the lives of others are worthless. I have no doubt you've got more experience there than I do. Thanks for making this debate way funnier than it would have been! Hey, you've definitely given me something to think about. Looking forward to see you on the trail!
 

Slimpartywagon

US Northwest Regional Member Rep, Oregon
Member

Influencer I

2,395
La Grande, Oregon, USA
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Rose
Member #

20990

Nope But I saw a can of it rupture in a buddy's saddle bags after a day of riding 2 track and barely maintained forest service roads on big adventure bikes. Made for an entertaining evening in camp watching him try to decontaminate his gear. I have to say it was quite effective in that instance :tearsofjoy: not something I would want to tangle with and I've been though the OC spray course when I was working on the aux security forces on NAS Fort Worth.
Some people are immune to pepper spray. I am one of those people. I use it to clear me up when I have a severe cold
 

slomatt

Rank V

Influencer I

1,723
Bay Area, CA
I am wondering, what percentage of us carry weapons out on the trail for security reasons? Has anyone experienced or heard of any negative incidents happening? I assume for the most part Overlanding individuals, the conservation minded, scenic route takers that we are. Are wonderful people!
I've personally experienced three negative incidents involving firearms while on various trips. Interestingly, none of these involved an animal, other than humans. In fact my go-to for animals is a can of bear spray.

The most concerning incident was on a trip with an online club (not OB, but similar) that included a family I hadn't met before. They were problematic from the start, didn't bring enough food for their kids, water for their dog, or enough money for gas to get home. One of the parents was very concerned about "cats" (mountain lions) and carried a holstered handgun the entire trip and kept messing around with it. Several times I saw them lift up the holstered weapon and point the muzzle at their kids while saying things like "look over there". I'm assuming it was loaded, which of course violates one of the most fundamental rules of gun safety (never point your weapon at anything you aren't willing to destroy). It was like being next to an irresponsible person at a gun range, you just want to get out of the area.

In another case a friend of mine, who I respect and trust, got drunk and pulled out his 45 to show everybody in camp. Definitely lower risk than the above story, but accidents can happen, and in my mind guns and alcohol don't mix.

The final negative story was at a campsite along a river. There were two guys camped a few hundred yards upstream who we had met earlier in the day. In the evening there was a lot of yelling from their camp, and well after dark someone started shooting off multiple rounds. After some discussion our group decided nobody was going to be able to sleep until we knew what was going on (since we were well within range of a misaimed shot) so we walked up the trail to check things out. The guys had been drinking and one claimed he was "attacked" by a rattlesnake and had to shoot it (funny, I thought they were cold blooded and non-active at night). They had the snake in a bag and planned to eat it for breakfast.

Oh, and several times I've run across people in the back country either shooting towards rocks, without a backstop, or across the trail. Not situations you want to hang out around.


These are probably not the kind of "negative incidents" the OP was asking about, but are something to consider from the other side of the equation. The common thread in these stories is people not being responsible gun owners, but ultimately none of these people had malicious intent. I have multiple friends who carry on trips and I have zero issue with it since I know they are responsible and highly trained (retired police, firearms instructors, 3 gun competitors, etc). That said, I definitely get a bit "weirded out" when people I don't know open carry in camp.

And since this thread has already gotten pretty heated let me be clear, I am not against bringing guns on trips. As people like to point out guns are inanimate objects. It is some (not all) of the people holding them that I worry about, and not because I think they have any ill intent towards me.
 

john casson

Rank V
Member

Pathfinder I

1,798
Danville CA
Member #

4370

Think outside your own box. Why should I change my mind about something I believe in any more than you. I'm not looking for your favor, I can live nicely without people who think like you. I don't believe in compromising my beliefs. I've seen as many atheist who own firearms as I have Christians, possibly more. So don't bring religion into the factor. You should be disappointed, I'll give you that, can you honestly believe there are that many people with your view on this subject ? You can dig your own grave, don't be trying to dig mine. If our friendship is dependent on my believing as you do we will never be friends.

You have the constitution, which shall not change, to thank for your ability to speak your piece. I have the constitution, which shall not change, to defend your constitutional right to speak.
Who gets the last word...................
 

Bama_Kiwi

Rank IV
Member
Supporter

Enthusiast III

1,393
Christchurch, New Zealand
First Name
Ryan
Last Name
Frank
Member #

21880

Ok... I've got no problem looking like an idiot... Are you serious?? Really?????
Coincidentally, the same former co-worker I mentioned previously in this thread:

He had seriously bad sinus issues. He got some sort of capsaicin nasal spray that he'd snort on a couple of times a day - seemed to work for him.
 

Slimpartywagon

US Northwest Regional Member Rep, Oregon
Member

Influencer I

2,395
La Grande, Oregon, USA
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Rose
Member #

20990

Ok... I've got no problem looking like an idiot... Are you serious?? Really?????
Yes, and no... yes I’m immune to pepper spray no I don’t use it to clear my sinuses... so CS Gas used in basic training to teach us to trust our gas mask is high concentrations of the same chemicals used in pepper spray. When we enter the gas chamber we are to have our masks on and sealed. Then the Drill Instructor comes up and tells each one of us to unmask in a predetermined order. (For my group it was last name alphabetical order, so I was one of the last that was supposed to unmask) Well the A’s started to unmask and this guy freaked out and tried running for the door. My mask was rigged up so I took it off so I could see to help restrain him and calm him down. I was one of the last ones out and didn’t think anything of it until I looked around and saw every one puking, coughing, eyes crying, noses running uncontrollably. I wiped my nose with the back of my hand, walked over to my gear and had a seat.
Drill came up to me a few minutes later and made me go back in. I was in there getting smoked for an hour without a mask as they tried to get me to show symptoms of the gas taking effect as they kept upping the gas until it was so thick we couldn’t see.

several years ago I was going through a self defense class put on by the Sheriff’s Department. The guy giving the class heard about my past experiences with CS gas, and sprayed me with pepper spray, to demonstrate that it doesn’t always work on everyone.

another time I was sprayed by a so called friend on a sneak attack... he got punched in the face...

don’t get me wrong, my eyes water and skin burns, it irritates me, but doesn’t cause me to back down, panic, or any of the other symptoms that are supposed to be associated with pepper spray.
 

Munga Brown

Rank III
Member

Enthusiast I

761
Central OR Coast
First Name
Martin
Last Name
S.
Member #

21803

Yeah, I went through basic training as well, sounds exactly the same. I didn't freak out either, but my eyes & skin burned, and I coughed like mad. Didn't puke or freak or anything. I'm just bizarrely relieved that at least it irritated you & made your skin burn & eyes water. Now I know you're human.

:laughing:
 

Slimpartywagon

US Northwest Regional Member Rep, Oregon
Member

Influencer I

2,395
La Grande, Oregon, USA
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Rose
Member #

20990

Yeah, I went through basic training as well, sounds exactly the same. I didn't freak out either, but my eyes & skin burned, and I coughed like mad. Didn't puke or freak or anything. I'm just bizarrely relieved that at least it irritated you & made your skin burn & eyes water. Now I know you're human.

:laughing:
Yes it irritates me, doesn’t make me cough or sneeze... just a little burning and if I don’t shave the burning is less. Nose runs enough to clear out a sinus cold.
 

Lanlubber

Rank V
Member

Off-Road Ranger I

2,357
Mimbres, NM, USA
First Name
Jim
Last Name
covey sr
Member #

16986

Ham Callsign
none - BREAKER BREAKER HAND HELD CB AND WALKIE TALKIE
I've personally experienced three negative incidents involving firearms while on various trips. Interestingly, none of these involved an animal, other than humans. In fact my go-to for animals is a can of bear spray.

The most concerning incident was on a trip with an online club (not OB, but similar) that included a family I hadn't met before. They were problematic from the start, didn't bring enough food for their kids, water for their dog, or enough money for gas to get home. One of the parents was very concerned about "cats" (mountain lions) and carried a holstered handgun the entire trip and kept messing around with it. Several times I saw them lift up the holstered weapon and point the muzzle at their kids while saying things like "look over there". I'm assuming it was loaded, which of course violates one of the most fundamental rules of gun safety (never point your weapon at anything you aren't willing to destroy). It was like being next to an irresponsible person at a gun range, you just want to get out of the area.

In another case a friend of mine, who I respect and trust, got drunk and pulled out his 45 to show everybody in camp. Definitely lower risk than the above story, but accidents can happen, and in my mind guns and alcohol don't mix.

The final negative story was at a campsite along a river. There were two guys camped a few hundred yards upstream who we had met earlier in the day. In the evening there was a lot of yelling from their camp, and well after dark someone started shooting off multiple rounds. After some discussion our group decided nobody was going to be able to sleep until we knew what was going on (since we were well within range of a misaimed shot) so we walked up the trail to check things out. The guys had been drinking and one claimed he was "attacked" by a rattlesnake and had to shoot it (funny, I thought they were cold blooded and non-active at night). They had the snake in a bag and planned to eat it for breakfast.

Oh, and several times I've run across people in the back country either shooting towards rocks, without a backstop, or across the trail. Not situations you want to hang out around.


These are probably not the kind of "negative incidents" the OP was asking about, but are something to consider from the other side of the equation. The common thread in these stories is people not being responsible gun owners, but ultimately none of these people had malicious intent. I have multiple friends who carry on trips and I have zero issue with it since I know they are responsible and highly trained (retired police, firearms instructors, 3 gun competitors, etc). That said, I definitely get a bit "weirded out" when people I don't know open carry in camp.

And since this thread has already gotten pretty heated let me be clear, I am not against bringing guns on trips. As people like to point out guns are inanimate objects. It is some (not all) of the people holding them that I worry about, and not because I think they have any ill intent towards me.
You have run into more than your share of idiot's !
 

Downs

Rank V
Member

Influencer I

2,357
Hunt County Texas
First Name
Joshua
Last Name
Downs
Member #

20468

Ham Callsign
KK6RBI / WQYH678
Some people are immune to pepper spray. I am one of those people. I use it to clear me up when I have a severe cold
I wasnt immune when i got sprayed but it took a while to kick in (we used fox labs for the cert) and didnt fully incapacitate me. Not to mention if you arent paying attention it can come back on you and the risk of cross contamination to the user is pretty high.

The CS chamber was similar. I wasnt immune but it was delayed and didnt seem to incapacitate me like many others who looked like they were dying.
 

Macaki

Rank I
Member

Member I

233
Fair Oaks, CA, USA
First Name
Mark
Last Name
King
Member #

21233

As we are usually quite far out of civilization we always carry at least 1 firearm. I'm always armed with my standard 1911 .45acp CCW and often my wife will have her pistol as well. We also like to shoot quite often so we will often have a long gun as well. We've rarely had a problem. We've had a few sketchy run-in's with people but ultimately no real problems. More often than not we run into like minded people and share stories, food, and ammo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lanlubber

MeHere!

Rank I
Member

Member I

233
Somerville, MA, USA
First Name
Mark
Last Name
Witkus
Member #

20197

Whew...interesting read thus far...I do not own a gun, not against it. Maybe at some point but my Wife is crazy so maybe not...I always carry a knife, have a nice 18 inch long wood dowel or as my buddy calls it Louis Baton and an SOG camping hatchet...oh and a sword...just in case zombie apocalypse...yes dear I know Zombies aren't real...but just in case...yes dear I know Zombies aren't real...but just in case...stop saying that they're not real...I know...


but just in case...

I am after reading this thread considering getting my licence, I love to shoot have had good times w/Dad and Uncles popping off some rounds at targets...Can't hunt, just can't do it not for me but if it's for you go for it...

The back and forth was fun to read, and being where I'm from growing up around gun/weapon violence I can see wanting to be protected, I can see how it can both escalate and de-escalate situations there is no one rule for petty much anything in life

Besides a gun is a way better option for Zombies as my sword ain't sharp and it'll be messy

Yes Dear I know they're not real...

But just in case...

Those four words alone may have swayed me into a gun...I just debated myself into wanting to buy a gun....


Just in case
 

Slimpartywagon

US Northwest Regional Member Rep, Oregon
Member

Influencer I

2,395
La Grande, Oregon, USA
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Rose
Member #

20990

... Wife is crazy so maybe not......
Good reason not to own one. Case in point, My best friend is a felon because his crazy ex wife shot him and then he wrestled the gun from her. He was holding the gun when the cops showed up and they believed her sob story. Because of my friend’s size, PTSD from Kosovo, and other factors the jury found him guilty. Was he guilty of anything, I don’t know. It is his word vs hers, but I tend to believe him... especially since he ex wife is on the run for multiple court violations and drug charges.
 

grubworm

Rank V

Pathfinder I

1,685
Thibodaux, LA, USA
First Name
mike
Last Name
c
Member #

17464

I do not own a gun, not against it. Maybe at some point but my Wife is crazy so maybe not...

But just in case...
Those four words alone may have swayed me into a gun...I just debated myself into wanting to buy a gun....
Ha! yeah, i was married to a psycho (blonde of course) and the heifer never went for any of my guns, she just came at me with her fists and nails...ah...fun times! :tonguewink:

guns are implements just like everything else. i have a lot of guns that never get taken out of the gun safe just like my wife's vacuum cleaner never gets taken out of the hall closet. its also there for "just in case" i guess :grinning:
 

Slimpartywagon

US Northwest Regional Member Rep, Oregon
Member

Influencer I

2,395
La Grande, Oregon, USA
First Name
Michael
Last Name
Rose
Member #

20990

Ha! yeah, i was married to a psycho (blonde of course) and the heifer never went for any of my guns, she just came at me with her fists and nails...ah...fun times! :tonguewink:

guns are implements just like everything else. i have a lot of guns that never get taken out of the gun safe just like my wife's vacuum cleaner never gets taken out of the hall closet. its also there for "just in case" i guess :grinning:
I had a crazy ex wife too (blonde as well) that had a purse full of bricks... I was on the receiving end of that purse more times than I can count.
 

Gone_xtrkn

Rank I
Member

Member I

233
Houston, TX, USA
First Name
Brendon
Last Name
Parmelee
Member #

21726

I don’t usually carry a weapon on the road/trail for a number of reasons, some of which have been mentioned already. We take other precautions for safety.

As a rule if it’s just the wife and I we’ll camp at a developed campsite, that way we’re reliably within earshot of at least a few different parties should something untoward happen and there are usually authorities available. For dispersed camping I only go with a group, preferably three parties or more. Doesn’t really matter to me whether or not someone in the group is armed as long as I know everyone. This may limit our enjoyment but the peace of mind is worth it to me.

Blades, spray, lights, sometimes flares or a horn on the hiking trails.

Interested to hear from those who generally choose to leave the firearms behind. What works for you?
 

Lanlubber

Rank V
Member

Off-Road Ranger I

2,357
Mimbres, NM, USA
First Name
Jim
Last Name
covey sr
Member #

16986

Ham Callsign
none - BREAKER BREAKER HAND HELD CB AND WALKIE TALKIE
Whew...interesting read thus far...I do not own a gun, not against it. Maybe at some point but my Wife is crazy so maybe not...I always carry a knife, have a nice 18 inch long wood dowel or as my buddy calls it Louis Baton and an SOG camping hatchet...oh and a sword...just in case zombie apocalypse...yes dear I know Zombies aren't real...but just in case...yes dear I know Zombies aren't real...but just in case...stop saying that they're not real...I know...


but just in case...

I am after reading this thread considering getting my licence, I love to shoot have had good times w/Dad and Uncles popping off some rounds at targets...Can't hunt, just can't do it not for me but if it's for you go for it...

The back and forth was fun to read, and being where I'm from growing up around gun/weapon violence I can see wanting to be protected, I can see how it can both escalate and de-escalate situations there is no one rule for petty much anything in life

Besides a gun is a way better option for Zombies as my sword ain't sharp and it'll be messy

Yes Dear I know they're not real...

But just in case...

Those four words alone may have swayed me into a gun...I just debated myself into wanting to buy a gun....


Just in case
I have news for you. Zombies are real as noted on my wheel cover.
 

Attachments