Overlanding with an EV

[EV-offroad]

Indeed the IONIQ 5 comes with free charging for 2 years but then there are some costs. Charging at home costs me about $4 in electricity. Fast chargers on the highway can be as much as $25 if I were to pay for it. I mentioned earlier that there are companies like Jeep and Paired Power that are installing remote solar charging stations. These cost about $60k to install in one day, charge at a rate of about 60kW, and have battery backup. They require minimal maintanance. If you can convince a few small towns to install them it would be very convenient. Maybe get a petition of 50 EV people to sign. heck even each EV owner could pitch in $1000 and you could install a solar station yourself. Let the general public use it for $5 a session and it will pay for itslef in a couple years. Flagstaff would be a great location. Maybe split the cost with a local petrol station owner. There are probably subsidies as well.

SunStation Charger | Paired Power | Level 2 EV Charging & High-Powered Charger Solutions

SunStation Level 2 chargers paired with PairTree deliver Level 2 charging rates from 100% solar energy via the SAE J1772 interface. SunStation HPC (High-Powered Charger), is a direct-DC Fast Charger, capable of fueling your EV with 100% solar energy at power levels up to 60 kW.

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[grubworm]

this is an interesting thread and its got me thinking...

after reading all these posts, it has become evident that EVs and wives have a LOT in common...they even share the same letters in their name. both also share the fact that their concept versions are never quite the same as what you actually end up taking home, both are very high maintenance and both are laden with uncertainties. sports models are equally fun as they are problematic and the higher the mileage, the more men are afraid to accept ownership.

they also share the fact that men want both to be admired and appreciated by others...just not too much. men will generally overlook a lot of the extra expenses created by both, as long as the ride is nice and both are quiet out on the highways. some men prefer to have just the one daily driver while others prefer to expand their options.

if anything, i would think that it would take a married man to fully appreciate and understand owning an EV.

ive been married to a redhead for a few years now and i feel im ready for an EV...

 

[DosTacos]

this is an interesting thread and its got me thinking...

after reading all these posts, it has become evident that EVs and wives have a LOT in common...they even share the same letters in their name. both also share the fact that their concept versions are never quite the same as what you actually end up taking home, both are very high maintenance and both are laden with uncertainties. sports models are equally fun as they are problematic and the higher the mileage, the more men are afraid to accept ownership.

they also share the fact that men want both to be admired and appreciated by others...just not too much. men will generally overlook a lot of the extra expenses created by both, as long as the ride is nice and both are quiet out on the highways. some men prefer to have just the one daily driver while others prefer to expand their options.

if anything, i would think that it would take a married man to fully appreciate and understand owning an EV.

ive been married to a redhead for a few years now and i feel im ready for an EV...

View attachment 258145

As one who has both, the EV is certainly way less maintenance. Tires and wiper blades.... that's it.

 

[EV-offroad]

this is an interesting thread and its got me thinking...

after reading all these posts, it has become evident that EVs and wives have a LOT in common...they even share the same letters in their name. both also share the fact that their concept versions are never quite the same as what you actually end up taking home, both are very high maintenance and both are laden with uncertainties. sports models are equally fun as they are problematic and the higher the mileage, the more men are afraid to accept ownership.

they also share the fact that men want both to be admired and appreciated by others...just not too much. men will generally overlook a lot of the extra expenses created by both, as long as the ride is nice and both are quiet out on the highways. some men prefer to have just the one daily driver while others prefer to expand their options.

if anything, i would think that it would take a married man to fully appreciate and understand owning an EV.

ive been married to a redhead for a few years now and i feel im ready for an EV...

View attachment 258145

That is hilarious! Although I have to concur with dostacos on this. I had a 1.8L VW which was not bad, an audi turbo diesel that was slightly more work, and a gf who requires near constant maintenance. As for the EV, it has been a dream so far. Maybe we are still in the honeymoon phase but we also just celebrated our one year anniversary. No breakdowns so far!

 

[Tundracamper]

The big hate on EV's largely comes from the infrastructure needing to be built, and the government's involvement.

You forgot to mention EV owners constantly telling the rest of us how great EVs are.

 

[EV-offroad]

You forgot to mention EV owners constantly telling the rest of us how great EVs are.

Overall EV are indeed pretty cool but always trade offs:

Pluses: lower fuel costs, smooth and quiet, simple maintenance, super fast, great torque, overall better for environment
Minuses: range not yet as good as many ICE, no transmission reduces fun, can be higher upfront cost, fuel stop takes 30 minutes instead of 5 minutes

 

[tjZ06]

I used to be somewhat anti-EV, but if I'm being brutally honest that was mostly just because I've always been a "car guy" and somehow felt obligated to be anti-EV. Like a lot of things (such as die-hard brand loyalty) as I get older I realize it's just silly to be so closed minded, or to feel so required to think one way. Over the last ~5 years I've driven a lot of EVs, and I actually had a Tesla Model 3 Performance for ~6mo while the owner, a good friend, was out of town. After that experience, I definitely can say "I get it" now.

The performance is a blast (the 3 Perf was quicker 0-60 and 1/4 mi than the Trackhawk I had) and one-pedal driving just makes so much sense once you get used to it. The ultra-smooth, quiet day to day use also is infectious and makes you think "this is how a daily driver should be." That said, when you are getting after it, the lack of shifts, noise, and drama in general makes it somewhat dull (even though the perf itself is actually super intense).

I even drove the 3 from my house in Vegas to the Bay Area, so I got to experience the road-trip charging story. All-in-all it wasn't so bad, but I'd say it added somewhere between 30 and 60 minutes to my trip (which is ~8hrs in an ICE vehicle). Doing it once, NBD. A few extra stops for a coffee and stretching the legs isn't the end of the world. However, doing trips like that regularly it'd get super annoying. That, and anything other than a Tesla would have been way more problematic and annoying (though, I hear maybe Tesla opened up their charging network to non-Teslas?).

So, for somebody that does a bunch of around-town driving, then has a daily commute to/from work that is comfortably under an EV's range (pretty easy these days since most EVs have 200+ miles of range) I can absolutely see why somebody would buy one. Moreover, if said person can charge free at work, has very cheap electricity over night, and/or has solar on their house that generates more than their current consumption it makes even more sense.

All of that said, EVs just aren't ready for Overlanding, at least the way most of us want to do it. Range had gotten good enough, and the charging networks common enough, that a person could plan *around their EV* and make a trip work, sort of. If you charge shortly before hitting the dirt and are either going for 1 night or are going to stay in one spot for the entire trip you could do a decent trip with an EV. Essentially it'd be something like charging just before hitting dirt, get to a camp and stay however many nights with little/no moving the vehicle around, then get back out and charge just after leaving dirt, get home (with all the charging stops you want/need). That greatly limits your options, and pretty much rules out things like BDRs. Still, it's not flat-out impossible to Overland an EV... you just have to accept the trade-offs.

One of my best friends, the one who owned the Model 3 Perf I had, just got a Rivian R1S. He's big into the idea of going on a camping (Overlanding) trip with it. So, once he gets some time with it I'm going to plan something that will work within the limitations of his rig. I look forward to seeing how it all works out.

-TJ

 

[EV-offroad]

I used to be somewhat anti-EV, but if I'm being brutally honest that was mostly just because I've always been a "car guy" and somehow felt obligated to be anti-EV. Like a lot of things (such as die-hard brand loyalty) as I get older I realize it's just silly to be so closed minded, or to feel so required to think one way. Over the last ~5 years I've driven a lot of EVs, and I actually had a Tesla Model 3 Performance for ~6mo while the owner, a good friend, was out of town. After that experience, I definitely can say "I get it" now.

The performance is a blast (the 3 Perf was quicker 0-60 and 1/4 mi than the Trackhawk I had) and one-pedal driving just makes so much sense once you get used to it. The ultra-smooth, quiet day to day use also is infectious and makes you think "this is how a daily driver should be." That said, when you are getting after it, the lack of shifts, noise, and drama in general makes it somewhat dull (even though the perf itself is actually super intense).

I even drove the 3 from my house in Vegas to the Bay Area, so I got to experience the road-trip charging story. All-in-all it wasn't so bad, but I'd say it added somewhere between 30 and 60 minutes to my trip (which is ~8hrs in an ICE vehicle). Doing it once, NBD. A few extra stops for a coffee and stretching the legs isn't the end of the world. However, doing trips like that regularly it'd get super annoying. That, and anything other than a Tesla would have been way more problematic and annoying (though, I hear maybe Tesla opened up their charging network to non-Teslas?).

So, for somebody that does a bunch of around-town driving, then has a daily commute to/from work that is comfortably under an EV's range (pretty easy these days since most EVs have 200+ miles of range) I can absolutely see why somebody would buy one. Moreover, if said person can charge free at work, has very cheap electricity over night, and/or has solar on their house that generates more than their current consumption it makes even more sense.

All of that said, EVs just aren't ready for Overlanding, at least the way most of us want to do it. Range had gotten good enough, and the charging networks common enough, that a person could plan *around their EV* and make a trip work, sort of. If you charge shortly before hitting the dirt and are either going for 1 night or are going to stay in one spot for the entire trip you could do a decent trip with an EV. Essentially it'd be something like charging just before hitting dirt, get to a camp and stay however many nights with little/no moving the vehicle around, then get back out and charge just after leaving dirt, get home (with all the charging stops you want/need). That greatly limits your options, and pretty much rules out things like BDRs. Still, it's not flat-out impossible to Overland an EV... you just have to accept the trade-offs.

One of my best friends, the one who owned the Model 3 Perf I had, just got a Rivian R1S. He's big into the idea of going on a camping (Overlanding) trip with it. So, once he gets some time with it I'm going to plan something that will work within the limitations of his rig. I look forward to seeing how it all works out.

-TJ

Yeah. I basically agree on all that. The trade off of losing gear shifting and engine noise vs smooth operation and acceleration with an EV is basically a wash as far as I am concerned. I also concur that long distance back country exploration into Alaska tundra would be difficult if not impossible with most EVs. Nonetheless, as you mention, around the city and short camping experiences within 200 mile range can be great with an EV.

One of the reasons why I started this post (apart from the main point to consider off-road capable upgrades for EVs) is I suppose to contemplate the future of deep overlanding adventures with EV as well. As mentioned earlier, longer and longer range, a growing charge network, and remote solar charging stations are pushing the boundary of where an EV can go. Jeep’s and PairedPower’s remote solar charging pilot programs are a good example albeit very early days. I suppose backroads exploration is the last frontier for EVs but to be honest it is kind of cool to consider the challenge.

I’m not quite old enough to remember when the model T and early ICE vehicle came online but it must have been a hoot. Watching then feeble ICEs race hoarses and engage in tug a war with a donkey must have been nutty. In 1903 Horatio Jackson was the first automobile owner to drive across the United States and this made front page news. Not to be outdone, an electric Ford lightening struggling to make it all the way up to the fridges of Alaska garnered 300k views on YouTube.

I can understand why many ICE owners would not be willing or excited to be Guinea pigs barely making it into the badlands with an EV. But for some of us, the pioneering aspect, trade offs and challenges is a new sort of fun.

Let us know if the overlanding trek with your friend’s Rivian turns out to be a blast or newsworthy in any way. Will you be waiting impatiently for the Rivian to charge every few hours? Will the Rivian come to the rescue pulling you out of the muck with its 900 ft pounds of torque? Will the Rivian 120v power outlet fire up lunch on a George Foreman electric grill one night? Sounds like a fun adventure either way.

 

[rgallant]

I just completed a 600 mile /1000KM trip in BC, and as a result of this discussion kept track of charging stations. The 1st leg was about 300 KM , and were several charging options in between that were non-Tesla with open spots, but only 2 or 3 chargers. At Kamloops the 1/2 point has lots of options.
The next 300 Km to 100 Mile house had far few options only 2 at Barriere which is about 1/2 way, then 2 in 100 Mile house, my destination, but they are Telsa stations.

So the problem and government has to fix this is - all charging stations must be available to all EV's - not just your brand or the EV movement is dead in the water. That means a standard charge port and connector.

Tesla has started providing the option but it is very much in it's infancy.

 

[DosTacos]

I can understand why many ICE owners would not be willing or excited to be Guinea pigs barely making it into the badlands with an EV. But for some of us, the pioneering aspect, trade offs and challenges is a new sort of fun.

Hahaha.. I am that guy. I've been taking my Rivian and pushing into areas that most are uncomfortable. I'm about 28k miles into ownership and live in Texas, where everything is a few hrs away. The charging infrastructure is practically non-existent south of San Antonio. So far I've spent a week in the mountains of Colorado, a couple trips to Cloudcroft, Big Bend National Park, Merus Adventure park in the Texas Panhandle, and am about to lead a group trip to Big Bend this weekend. I get 300mi of range to a charge, but have had a couple instances of rolling into a charging station 5+miles beyond the zero mark. I haven't found the limit yet but fortunately I'm rarely more than 300mi from some type of power outlet or RV park.

 

[Boris]

Interesting discussion. I just watched the videos about the Ioniq 5 modification. I think lift and tires are very good choices and make sense. I'm not so sure about the roof rack and the spare tire on the roof. The effect on range is in my opinion too high for the benefit. I would just put the spare tire in the truck.

We did some interesting overlanding trips with an EV in the past years. First, we drove across most Scandinavian countries to the North Cape. Then, we took the ferry from Denmark to Iceland and explored a larger part of the remote highlands of Iceland with an EV. Very similar to what Expedition Overland did in their Nordic Series. With a bit of addtional planning it worked perfectly. Even under tough offroad conditions we had at least a range of 200km, enough for many interesting tracks. In Iceland we drove very similar tracks as we did before with our lifted Nissan Patrol on large MT tires. The only modifications we did to the car were some good AT-tires (Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac) and a spare wheel on the rear bench.
You can find a couple of videos about my experience on my YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@ev_overlanding

And a travel report on my blog:

EV Overlanding

overland travel to remote destinations with electric vehicles

ev-overlanding.com

Will an EV work for all kind overlanding trips? Definitely not. We are currently in South America at the end of our 12 months overlanding trip through Patagonia and the Altiplano, where we explored some very wild places. For this trip we decided not to use an EV but instead bought a Ford Ranger ICE truck in Santiago. Many of the very remote tracks we have driven in that year would clearly not have been possible with an EV. But it would have been possible to adjust the routes in a way that it could be done with an EV. Even tracks like the famous Laguna Route in Bolivia could be done with an EV with a bit for extra planning.
In fact, I'm planning to drive the complete Panamerican Highway from Alaska to Argentina with an EV in the next years. Should be fun. And if this is not Overlanding, than what else is?

Boris
EV Overlanding

 

[EV-offroad]

Right on. That’s the spirit. Keep pushing the EV possibilities. Ever think about assembling a portable 6000W solar array? This array would cost about $6500 and weigh only 350lbs. It would take about 10 hours of sun to charge which means you would need to camp for a day every 300 miles or so. Not practical for everyday real life but would be a fun experiment. Especially if combined with access to a few proper fast chargers.

 

[Boris]

Right on. That’s the spirit. Keep pushing the EV possibilities. Ever think about assembling a portable 6000W solar array? This array would cost about $6500 and weigh only 350lbs. It would take about 10 hours of sun to charge which means you would need to camp for a day every 300 miles or so. Not practical for everyday real life but would be a fun experiment. Especially if combined with access to a few proper fast chargers.

Yes, I'm very interested in this idea and I'm following very closely Marten and Renske from the Netherlands Traveling Electric without chargepoints!? | 4x4electric. They are doing exactly this. I even had a short interview with them (it's published on my blog). They have driven with a Skoda Enyaq EV from Europe across West Africa to South Africa charging their car mainly by using solar panels which they carry in their trunk. It's working surprisingly well and they got more than 50% of the needed energy from their own solar panels.

But it's not as easy as it sounds. Here are a couple of things to consider:
- On a cloudy day charging takes much longer until a point where it doesn't even make sense to put out the solar panels.
- If you are not close to the equator it's extremely important to put the solar panels at an angle to the sun. If not, you get a lot less output.
- You have to keep the solar panels free of dust and dirt. If not the efficiency is reduced significantly.
- In order to be as efficient as possible it's not a good idea to make a DC to AC to DC conversion, which would happen if you just put standard solar panels combined with standard electronics on your EV. Marten and Reske are using instead DC to DC electronics for their solar panels to directly charge their EV with DC. This componet alone costs more than 10,000 USD. Altogether I would estimate that you currently have to spend something around 30,000 USD to make it work (or find some companies which sponsor your project). But I guess over the next years the cost will get down to maybe something like 10,000 to 15,000 USD.
- As you have written we are talking about an additional weight of about 200 to 300 kg including all necessary electronics and cables. Since the whole idea would only work with a highly efficient EV (well below 20 kWh / 100 km) this leads to a significant weight problem. None of the existing EVs with << 20 kWh / 100 km can easily carry 300 kg plus all the other necessary overland equipment. And vehicles like an F150 Lightning or Rivian are just not efficient enough for this concept. Charging their large batteries with solar panels would take forever and is just not practical.

By the way, currently, vehicles like the Ioniq 5 or ID.4 are in my opinion the best compromise for international overlanding with an EV. They have a fairly large battery, acceptable offroad performance (especially with a slight lift and good tires), and have a far better efficiency than something like a Rivian. They are the only viable option if you have to charge on standard household plugs or solar panels (often the only options in South or Central America or Africa).

I would really like to try this out, but only in a couple of years when the prices for the equipment has come down and in a location with lots of sun like Africa or Australia. For the Dalton Highway for example this will even in the future not work very well (difficult angle of the sun and too many clouds). To get to Prudhoe Bay you just have to drive very slowly and use the slow charging options that are available there. Or wait a couple of years for some fast charging infrastructure. It will for sure hapen.

 

[DANNER]

So this is kind of encouraging for EV overloading. However, I'm a suspect that they got such good range with a heavier camper than the Project M used with the TFL video segment, more a aggressive AT tires, and traveling on dirt road.

 

[EV-offroad]

Thanks. Yes indeed this is all encouraging although there certainly are limitations such as long treks in remote locations far from fast chargers. I did a review on the range reduction associated with bigger tires, roof rack and lift (see link below). The biggest hit to range is actually speed, so going, for example 40mph on dirt roads may not be so bad. Towing a trailer would significantly reduce range however. I would say that if you can get over 150-200 miles (about 3 hrs of driving) that is usually enough to justify a stop for lunch and a 30 minute fast charge. The driver needs a break now and then.

 

[Ubiety]

less negative environmental impact than a gas station

Can you point us to a study that shows this? I ask because I am genuinely interested. Not going to claim that gas stations are good for the planet but neither is solar panel production (and likely recycling or lack thereof). I wonder if someone has done some sort of analysis comparing these apples and oranges ;) I’m still waiting for Amazon to deliver my Mr Fusion then I am all in.

 

[Ubiety]

Already happening. A remote solar charge station costs $60k to install. How much does it cost to install a petrol station?

I think one would have to consider the throughput of vehicles fueled/recharged. AFAIK the typical gas station is going to service a lot more ICE cars for a given amount of time. Yep, things are transitioning and the tech is improving and I am considering electric for around town; I love the idea of plugging into 220 at home and never going to a gas/charging station again. Then I think about CA telling people not to charge their EVs between certain hours and I go fill my tank. Hahaha

 

[EV-offroad]

Can you point us to a study that shows this? I ask because I am genuinely interested. Not going to claim that gas stations are good for the planet but neither is solar panel production (and likely recycling or lack thereof). I wonder if someone has done some sort of analysis comparing these apples and oranges ;) I’m still waiting for Amazon to deliver my Mr Fusion then I am all in.

These are very detailed and complicated studies but most point to the fact that an EV has a smaller carbon footprint overall compared to ICE. When the EPA determines mpg "equivalent" for an EV they account for production costs, source of the electricity etc. Mpg for an EV is usually around 100mpg compared to ICE. Of course local variables account for a large standard deviation in mean values. If your region burns coal to generate electricity then the carbon footprint for your specific EV will be much higher. The building I live in gets most of its energy from solar so the carbon footprint is much less. Its not zero of course. Batteries and solar panels require production. That is all accounted for in the calculations.

Charging An Electric Vehicle Is Far Cleaner Than Driving On Gasoline, Everywhere In America

New research shows just how much cleaner driving an electric vehicle is than driving on gasoline, regardless of where it charges: EVs average 80 miles per gallon emissions equivalent across the U.S. - and reach as high as 191 MPG in New York State.

www.forbes.com

 

[EV-offroad]

I think one would have to consider the throughput of vehicles fueled/recharged. AFAIK the typical gas station is going to service a lot more ICE cars for a given amount of time. Yep, things are transitioning and the tech is improving and I am considering electric for around town; I love the idea of plugging into 220 at home and never going to a gas/charging station again. Then I think about CA telling people not to charge their EVs between certain hours and I go fill my tank. Hahaha

Yes valid point. The throughput for a gas station is pretty fast. If you estimate 5 minutes to fill up gas versus 30 minutes to "fill up" an EV , the throughput is 6 times better with petrol. But as you say, most EV ownerss charge at home slowly overnight and this reduces the need for station throughput. I would say that the approximate ratio of use of fast charger use vs home slow trickle makes up for the difference in petrol station refueling speeds. That is my own experience, in fact probably 10:1 or 20:1 faster charger vs petrol station. Thus if my calculations are correct, we might only need 10% of the EV fast charging stations compared to petrol stations.

 

[Ubiety]

These are very detailed and complicated studies but most point to the fact that an EV has a smaller carbon footprint overall compared to ICE. When the EPA determines mpg "equivalent" for an EV they account for production costs, source of the electricity etc. Mpg for an EV is usually around 100mpg compared to ICE. Of course local variables account for a large standard deviation in mean values. If your region burns coal to generate electricity then the carbon footprint for your specific EV will be much higher. The building I live in gets most of its energy from solar so the carbon footprint is much less. Its not zero of course. Batteries and solar panels require production. That is all accounted for in the calculations.

Charging An Electric Vehicle Is Far Cleaner Than Driving On Gasoline, Everywhere In America

New research shows just how much cleaner driving an electric vehicle is than driving on gasoline, regardless of where it charges: EVs average 80 miles per gallon emissions equivalent across the U.S. - and reach as high as 191 MPG in New York State.

www.forbes.com

Here in WA we make power from salmon pate! ;)