I was considering adding a cb radio to my rig. Just to have an extra communication if I got jammed up.
Overlanding mobile radio setup: side hobby or necessity?
- Thread starter Ben Cleveland
- Start date
Member III
One that you missed (or maybe you didn't and I did) is the size of the antenna.
A 1/4 wave GMRS antenna is about 6"... a 1/4 wave CB antenna is 108"
Sure you can get shorter CB antennas but they are a compromise over a true 1/4 wave.
You can get longer GMRS antennas that only improve performance.
Even a 5/8 wave GMRS antenna is only going to be about 16".
And something that goes along with that, less ground plane. You can mount a GMRS almost anywhere and get good performance.
Most problem with CB antennas is mounting them to a poor/improper ground plane.
And an addendum to the GMRS vs HAM Debate -- if you are in Canada, you don't have the same freedoms as the Americans on GMRS bands, and if you need more than 3-4 kilometres of range reliably, you'd better take a serious look at HAM/2M radio.
http://www.marscan.com/Gmrs.htm
Looks like we are limited to 2 watts on GMRS which would severely limit range. I was wondering why I never see those Midland base stations in stores here, but this must be why.
My system will stick with HAM as I can do up to 50 watts easily and with a bluetooth adapter link it to my helmet's headset to talk to my wife in our jeep. I should reliably be able to get 20 miles or so which is plenty for us, even without repeaters.
http://www.marscan.com/Gmrs.htm
Looks like we are limited to 2 watts on GMRS which would severely limit range. I was wondering why I never see those Midland base stations in stores here, but this must be why.
My system will stick with HAM as I can do up to 50 watts easily and with a bluetooth adapter link it to my helmet's headset to talk to my wife in our jeep. I should reliably be able to get 20 miles or so which is plenty for us, even without repeaters.
Off-Road Ranger I
What kind of antenna separation is needed between ham and GMRS antennas? I’ve read a foot or maybe a little more is all that’s necessary for ham to cb, is GMRS similar?
Great point! To be perfectly honest I didn't miss it, I genuinely just didn't know that :D I only got a 78% on my HAM test so I've been tempted to back and do it again just to gain access to HF stuff but don't have a radio that'll do it -- the point is a lot of the technical side of radios is still a bit greek to me. (My lovely wife of course got 82% so she'll forever be the 'smarter radio operator' in our family!)
I wouldn't rely on CB in a backcountry emergency unless you are travelling with others very nearby who have CB. It just doesn't have the range in most places a typical overlander is likely to go (even if typical only means occasional fire service roads or state parks -- it's still not got the juice to reach out for help).
Member III
I thought I had seen your vehicle around.
But at least post an updated picture of the inside....
Traveler III
And for a counter counter point. I was sitting dead still in a line of traffic a couple of weeks ago. Nothing on any FRS or GMRS channel. But a quick query on CB channel 19 gave me details on the incident and a suggested alternate route. CB is still king on the highway, and overall here in the Midwest. I know one other person with GMRS, none with a HAM license, and dozens with CB.
That was my suspicion too -- like I said, truckers used to be all over it (and may still). Given that most Overlanding requires a fair bit of slab before getting to the fun stuff, there's definitely an argument for something like CB. If all a person is looking for is off-road local comms, though (and assuming they aren't with a group already on CB), GMRS is probably a better choice in a lot of situations.
Something that the OP (and others with similar questions) may find great benefit in is finding local groups and seeing what they use. What is common in Alberta 4WD (Hams) isn't necessarily common elsewhere. Alternatively if you're planning a big trip, it'll probably be about compromising and picking one or two options that provide the most utility for most of your route.
My dream device: a 40-watt compact GMRS base station with Bluetooth, a handheld mic with a small LED screen and QWERTY keyboard, and a Spot/InReach 2-way comms and SOS capability built-in for occasional satellite communications for under $300. With a bluetooth weatherproof PTT button!
(I know that is unrealistic in so many ways but this is my dream, not yours! Leave me with it! :D)
Advocate II
Note to self: anytime I want to start a long thread, just ask for opinions about overland comms and question whether or not they're necessary
Seriously though, I haven't quoted posts because there are too many. But the feedback and experiences in this thread are SO HELPFUL to me!
I think I said this earlier, but I'm officially intrigued on GMRS and Ham. Not going to really get into Ham right now, but after hearing some of the other perspectives on Ham as an emergency preparedness tool, its on my list to explore at a future time when I have margin for that.
GMRS-depending on budget, I may even try to pick up a few handhelds, and add a mobile base to my rig this year. Seems like the most practically useful, and I like the cross compatibility with FRS handhelds. Thinking of comms as another useful emergency/preparedness tool in your toolbox really makes comms feel a little more practical and accessible for me.
Seriously though, I haven't quoted posts because there are too many. But the feedback and experiences in this thread are SO HELPFUL to me!
I think I said this earlier, but I'm officially intrigued on GMRS and Ham. Not going to really get into Ham right now, but after hearing some of the other perspectives on Ham as an emergency preparedness tool, its on my list to explore at a future time when I have margin for that.
GMRS-depending on budget, I may even try to pick up a few handhelds, and add a mobile base to my rig this year. Seems like the most practically useful, and I like the cross compatibility with FRS handhelds. Thinking of comms as another useful emergency/preparedness tool in your toolbox really makes comms feel a little more practical and accessible for me.
Advocate II
These are the stories that make me think about just buying a $40 CB with a decent antenna, and throwing it in the rig too.
Darn. Do i just need to do all the radios?
Member III
It's too bad you can't have a radio that does it all huh? Well legally anyways.
Pathfinder I
I would earnestly 2nd all of this.
CBs: terrible but cheap & fairly common. Radios are inexpensive & require virtually no skill or training. Invariably the sole comm for some people in any group. Truckers don’t use them like they did in the 70s & 80s but still sometimes useful in highway delays.
GMRS: great middle ground & family use with handhelds but unfortunately not very common.
HAM: Excellent, but a fair amount of investment & really only run by pretty hard core overlanders (though perhaps less so as time goes by). Biggest advantage is clarity & ability to have a detailed discussion.
Satellite: Irreplaceable in a true emergency.
InReach/SPOT-Can be on vehicle or carried with you hiking or on a boat. Allows remote tracking by family/friends. Ability to converse varies by device but typically options for “okay”, non-emergent help & emergency.
PLB (Personal Locator Beacon)-Gold standard for genuine emergencies (just like with marine & aviation). Monitored by NORAD. Nearly bombproof ability to transmit & be received. Can be carried on body.
ANCILLARY
Pet GPS Satellite Tracker-Allows tracking. Not advocating as sole method,but your dog can back up your SPOT, etc.
In the last several decades, both my mom & myself typically go remote & solo-frequently separately & in different parts of the country. We have had a SPOT since it’s inception (though we are just now considering InReach). We (& frequently other interested friends & family) “watch” each other on our trips. This can be on the phone or computer. Alerts will even text. “Okays” at startup, camp & end of day. I have these set to text & will know immediately even if I’m at home, at work or running errands. There’s a non-emergent help that the “follower” can then call in local resources & finally an S.O.S.. My Mom also carries a PLB easily reachable from her driver seat & on her side if she’s out of the vehicle & not just at camp. (She always has a dog so I can actually track the dog as well-also from my phone if desired-but this is usually just corroborating info & exists because terriers like to venture out on their own).
We honestly don’t really ever use other communication except cell phone on highway stretches to catch up. I have a CB because all the locals do but I only use it on rare group rides. Now with a family & inexperienced friends who occasionally want to tag along on family outings, I like GMRS because you can hand out the FRS handhelds. HAM still has all of it’s advantages & I embrace it, however, you can see how I essentially never use it-except for maybe that annual time I’m with other experienced & invested overlanders (none of the young guys I run into on the trail have it). I expect it would be great for detailed communication in an emergency, however, my satellite stuff has the call for help part covered. I’m still into HAM & support it. For instance, we ran across a small fire a month ago & several passing rigs & motos worked together to put it out. If we hadn’t been able to put it out, a HAM would have been uniquely usefull, however, at the time, none of the 5 different groups had one.
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Off-Road Ranger I
Yeah, this is a much safer long thread starter than the "other one", which vehicle should I buy? Jeep or Toyota are the only acceptable answers, by the way!
I very much share this sentiment!
I strongly recommend anyone interested in preparedness should get at least a tech level HAM lic.
I live in socal and it has helped greatly to have a UHF/VHF radio during fires and local bad weather. It’s a benefit that it works well on the trail also.
If I can get a Tech licence, anyone can. It is not hard at all. The UHF/VHF mobile radios are super easy to learn and use. Most smart phones and car radio are harder to use then UHF/VHF mobile radio. Get a Mobile installed in your car/truck first then get a HT when you have learned more.
Serious guys a Tech ham License is about the easiest and cheapest thing you can do for overlanding and preparedness planning.
I live in socal and it has helped greatly to have a UHF/VHF radio during fires and local bad weather. It’s a benefit that it works well on the trail also.
If I can get a Tech licence, anyone can. It is not hard at all. The UHF/VHF mobile radios are super easy to learn and use. Most smart phones and car radio are harder to use then UHF/VHF mobile radio. Get a Mobile installed in your car/truck first then get a HT when you have learned more.
Serious guys a Tech ham License is about the easiest and cheapest thing you can do for overlanding and preparedness planning.
Traveler III
Another major problem with the Canadian rules is that GMRS units are forbidden to have a separate antenna - fixed, integrated antennas only. Basically GMRS in Canada is relegated to crappy hand held 2 watt units only.
Now, of course if you don't mind breaking the law, you could buy a US 5 watt unit with a separate antenna and just use it in Canada. I highly doubt the CRTC would ever know or bother trying to find you. Having said that, I don't advocate breaking the law, however silly and overly restrictive it might be, and I chose to stick with my archaic CB radio for that reason.
Just wanted to say; very useful thread, especially regarding GMRS in Canada. I've been contemplating what comms to get for my overlanding adventures (I'm fairly new to most of this). I've got a CB which I still need to buy an antenna for, so I think that's a good choice to begin with? I've also considered an emergency locator beacon as I don't want to invest in HAM just yet.
Off-Road Ranger I
This completely depends on who is around you. When I lived in Minnesota CB is what we used vehicle to vehicle. Now that I’m in Utah, CB is nearly useless. No one here uses it on the trail and it doesn’t reach far enough for emergencies.
Yeah, good point. I'm figuring the CB would mostly be for contact between those camping and traveling with me in their own vehicle. People I know, basically. A lot of the Crown land around my province is so sparsely populated (at least in my experience) that I'm guessing an EPIRB/ PLB would make the most sense without the HAM investment?
