Offroad Trailer Brakes - Yes or No?

[M Rose]

@64Trvlr thats a nice controller, me thinks the Bronco needs one... although at the moment the only thing it tows is a 14’ Tin Boat.

 

[64Trvlr]

@64Trvlr thats a nice controller, me thinks the Bronco needs one... although at the moment the only thing it tows is a 14’ Tin Boat.

It doesn't matter what you pull, if you buy one you'll be very happy with it.

 

[M Rose]

It doesn't matter what you pull, if you buy one you'll be very happy with it.

I just meant I have no brakes on the boat trailer, and when I do put brakes on they are going to be surge brakes... but yes the controller will be nice for when I build my adventure trailer.

 

[Billiebob]

First you must have them when the regulations say so. In California that is at 1500#, in Alaska 5500#. Thats a pretty big window. And equally important is staying within the Trailer Tow Rating and GVWR of your tow vehicle.

I used to be a fan of trailer brakes but they have none of the skid control systems our modern cars have so they can often create unsafe conditions even when you are not in a panic stop. On loose gravel, going downhill it is easy to have the trailer skidding around under moderate braking while the tow vehicle is tracking properly. The last thing you want on a skinny mountain road is a trailer trying to pass you so my opinion is NO trailer brakes if the regulations don't require it.

When I first started driving most semis did not have brakes on the steering axle for the same reason, to maintain directional control. And 30 years ago driving fire trucks, they all had a dash switch to disconnect the steering axle brakes. Sure stopping distances might be longer stopping on the highway..... but at least when the highway was wet you had control. Having room to stop has nothing to do with how powerful your brakes are. Stopping in time is all about having good judgement and starting to brake soon enough. Many truck drivers only use brakes to stop. I could drive Edmonton, Vancouver and back without needing to adjust the air brakes, in the mountains.

For the past 10 years I've towed a 2000# trailer full of tools behind my TJR without trailer brakes.... about 10K miles a year, summer and winter. Never had an issue, even at deer crossings. But I come down steep, slippery grades every winter and am darn glad there are NO brakes on the trailer. I know it would end up passing me. It is all about judgement and looking far enough down the road.

So 3 trailers, all under 2000# and I'll never put on trailer brakes. In BC trailer brakes are required at 2950#. When trailer brakes are required on a tandem trailer I've only put them on the lead axle so the rear axle will track and keep things straight.

 

[64Trvlr]

I just meant I have no brakes on the boat trailer, and when I do put brakes on they are going to be surge brakes... but yes the controller will be nice for when I build my adventure trailer.

That's a very light trailer for surge brakes, why surge brakes instead of electric?

I used to be a fan of trailer brakes but they have none of the skid control systems our modern cars have so they can often create unsafe conditions even when you are not in a panic stop. On loose gravel, going downhill it is easy to have the trailer skidding around under moderate braking while the tow vehicle is tracking properly. The last thing you want on a skinny mountain trailer is a trailer trying to pass you so my opinion is NO trailer brakes if the regulations don't require it.

I'm going to quote what I wrote earlier.

I don't understand the big worry about "locking up" the brakes on a trailer in here. My controller (Prodigy P2) can be adjusted from locking up the brakes with just a touch on the brake pedal to completely off with the adjustment wheel on it.

 

[M Rose]

That's a very light trailer for surge brakes, why surge brakes instead of electric?






I'm going to quote what I wrote earlier.

I don't understand the big worry about "locking up" the brakes on a trailer in here. My controller (Prodigy P2) can be adjusted from locking up the brakes with just a touch on the brake pedal to completely off with the adjustment wheel on it.

Because Surge brakes don’t heat up as much as electric brakes, surge brakes are legal in Oregon, where as Electric Brakes on boat trailers under x feet require special Marine Grade Brakes, and my tongue is already set up for surge brakes, just need to put the drums and plumbing in... the PO started to rebuild the trailer and never finished.

 

[Billiebob]

Someone correct me if I an wrong.

When I realized I would be towing a trailer almost every day I looked at the different systems available. I think there are two basic choices.

First, the inexpensive one is a timed brske controller. The longer you press on the brake pedal the harder the trailer brakes. This one I see all the time. Following a guy down the grade to a ferry landing the guy will be riding his brakes and eventually the tires start to lock up and skid. Definitely he had zero understanding of how primitive his trailer brakes were. My interpretation is that system is great on a fully loaded trailer running a dedicated route driven by a guy who understands do not ride the brakes. A lot of the time these are on either empty deck trailers or economical tent trailers. I rarely ever use my brakes on that grade, preferring to gear down and use the transmission.

Second is the more money option of a proportional controller. Way more better for flexibility and control, it senses how hard you are braking and applies a proportional amount of force at the trailer. There is usually some kind of adjustment on the controller so you can adjust for an empty vs loaded trailer or road conditions, dry vs wet pavement, gravel, steep mountain grade. But for any of those again I prefer to control the speed with gear selection. When off road, which was the POs question I figure if you need brakes towing an Expo trailer off road, you were going too fast.

In close to 60K miles of trailer towing behind my TJR not once have I wished I had trailer brakes. My daily work trailer scales at 2K# and my comments are strictly for a light trailer behind a fairly solid tow vehicle. As the tow vehicle gets smaller, lighter or the trailer heavier I would definitely reevaluate those choice. Towing a Trillium travel trailer behind a Subaru CrossTrek would likely change my choice.

This is my overlanding rig. 1500# fully loaded.

 

[Billiebob]

My controller (Prodigy P2) can be adjusted from locking up the brakes with just a touch on the brake pedal to completely off with the adjustment wheel on it.

So you agree there are conditions when no trailer brakes are better, me I just prefer to drive according to the conditions without needing to adjust trailer brakes.

But I agree if I was in a different combination, I would only want that kind of controller.

 

[Louiston]

 

[64Trvlr]

Second is the more money option of a proportional controller. Way more better for flexibility and control, it senses how hard you are braking and applies a proportional amount of force at the trailer. There is usually some kind of adjustment on the controller so you can adjust for an empty vs loaded trailer or road conditions, dry vs wet pavement, gravel, steep mountain grade. But for any of those again I prefer to control the speed with gear selection. When off road, which was the POs question I figure if you need brakes towing an Expo trailer off road, you were going too fast.

This is my overlanding rig. 1500# fully loaded.

I use my trailer brakes off road all the time, they work well to hold me in place when I'm sitting for a few seconds or help slow me down on a steep grade (yes I gear down). I don't go fast off road but I also drive on roads where people do stupid things driving around me so I like the extra braking power.

I don't have any recent experience with any controllers except the Prodigy 2 so that's what I base my opinion on. Yes it was about $100 when I bought it but that's money well spent as far as I'm concerned, I've had one of my controllers for 15 years and the other 2 for about 10 with no problems at all.


PS nice rig!

 

[64Trvlr]

My controller (Prodigy P2) can be adjusted from locking up the brakes with just a touch on the brake pedal to completely off with the adjustment wheel on it.

So you agree there are conditions when no trailer brakes are better, me I just prefer to drive according to the conditions without needing to adjust trailer brakes.

But I agree if I was in a different combination, I would only want that kind of controller.

Sure as I said if I don't want or need brakes I can turn my controller off, BUT when I do need them it's easy to turn them on so I have them.

 

[MidOH]

That's cute. Until the system malfunctions and locks 'em up, braking down an off ramp, in the snow. Been there multiple times, with multiple vehicles with the controller set to the lowest setting. Electric brakes have some interesting failure modes.


Heavy trailers don't have this problem. One ton trucks with little trailers, also tend to lack this problem. I really don't want any brakes on anything under 4000#. I think state law is 3000#, but I have an outfitter switch to fix that.

My $100,000 Ram Cummins came with a primitive brake timer that Billie mentioned. Gosh, it's terrible for backing up long distances. Because if you drag the brake to keep the Cummins slow, it keeps stopping the truck. Makes you look like a newb, cause the trailer bounces every time. I have to unplug my trailer cord for long runs in reverse.

 

[old_man]

That's cute. Until the system malfunctions and locks 'em up, braking down an off ramp, in the snow. Been there multiple times, with multiple vehicles with the controller set to the lowest setting. Electric brakes have some interesting failure modes.


Heavy trailers don't have this problem. One ton trucks with little trailers, also tend to lack this problem. I really don't want any brakes on anything under 4000#. I think state law is 3000#, but I have an outfitter switch to fix that.

My $100,000 Ram Cummins came with a primitive brake timer that Billie mentioned. Gosh, it's terrible for backing up long distances. Because if you drag the brake to keep the Cummins slow, it keeps stopping the truck. Makes you look like a newb, cause the trailer bounces every time. I have to unplug my trailer cord for long runs in reverse.

That is why I added a relay driven off of the transmission position indicator switch that opens up the signal from the brakes to the controller when in reverse.

 

[smritte]

Interesting replies.
Picture a light Harbor Freight trailer with two small ATVs being pulled by a 1990 Toyota PU with a fiberglass shell on the back. Now do a panic stop at 45 mph and have that very light trailer combo, jack knife you.
One thing people don't understand about trailers is, they push the back of your vehicle up when heavy braking. Now that you made the back of your tow rig lighter, if your not stopping straight, you can be pushed sideways. I have also had this happen towing my jeep on a tow bar behind my dually with a 4000 lb Lance camper.
People can go through life and never have a problem, that's fine. I have had issues. When I do, I research and try to figure out how not to have this ever happen again.
On my M-100, before the RTT, driving down a steep soft hill, the 700 lb trailer kept trying to push the back of my TJ sideways. Swapped the axle for one with brakes and never looked back.
All my trailers will have brakes no matter how light. The key to this whole mess is the controller. I also run the Prodigy controllers. Most opinions I have read over the years are based on people who have only tried one or two designs, listened to their "friend" and or used older out dated systems.
When it comes to my gear and my vehicles, I don't want any issues. My OCD kicks in and I go out of my way to make it what I consider correct and safe for me. As I stated earlier, peoples opinions will vary. For most, once they get bit by something they will either blame what bit them or find out why. Its easier to blame what bit them.

Also, I didn't watch the video at the beginning, I'm at work and its hard to watch them here.

 

[armyRN]

This is the brake controller I'm using with my little trailer - a Tekonsha Prodigy P3. I have three vehicles wired for using this brake controller (96 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 98 Jeep TJ, and 46 Willys CJ2A):

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brake-Controller/Tekonsha/90195.html

I just move it from vehicle to vehicle. It isn't the cheapest brake controller, but I like it, and it has worked well for me over the last few years. I can dial up-or-down the amount of braking it applies to the trailer, and there's a lever on it I can go to max as soon as I move it.

 

[smritte]

This is the brake controller I'm using with my little trailer - a Tekonsha Prodigy P3.

I love that controller. Fits anywhere and fully functional.

 

[64Trvlr]

That's cute. Until the system malfunctions and locks 'em up, braking down an off ramp, in the snow. Been there multiple times, with multiple vehicles with the controller set to the lowest setting. Electric brakes have some interesting failure modes.


Heavy trailers don't have this problem. One ton trucks with little trailers, also tend to lack this problem. I really don't want any brakes on anything under 4000#. I think state law is 3000#, but I have an outfitter switch to fix that.

My $100,000 Ram Cummins came with a primitive brake timer that Billie mentioned. Gosh, it's terrible for backing up long distances. Because if you drag the brake to keep the Cummins slow, it keeps stopping the truck. Makes you look like a newb, cause the trailer bounces every time. I have to unplug my trailer cord for long runs in reverse.

So I'm trying to understand what you're saying, one paragraph says 1 ton trucks do well braking trailers the next says there's a problem. I think all you need is a quality controller the works with all your trailers and can be turned off from the cab without having to get out and unplug it.

What's really cute is a $100,000 truck with a substandard brake controller from the factory. I hope you spent $100 or so on a quality controller that will work when you need it.

 

[MidOH]

Not exactly my truck. When the trailer controller cooks every brake in the fleet, it'll be fine. Lol.

One ton trucks with little trailer, without trailer brakes, are fine. In snow, my trailer brakes are at lowest settings, or off.

Integrated controllers are best now. I have no idea who orders a giant truck without one anymore. Same guy that orders GM Express Van death traps, I suppose.

Don't trust any of this Rv crowd garbage in the rain or snow.

 

[Embark With Mark]

Sounds like the ''trailers aren't safe in snow'' crowd, in here.

No, I never run brakes on little trailers with short lengths and light weight. Larger trailers generally can handle braking better. The possibility of a lockup in the rain and snow, and having the trailer swing the tow vehicle is far too likely.

If the tow vehicle needs a little trailer to have brakes, for optimum performance, I recommend a larger better tow vehicle instead.

Hmm this might be so, unless you have the approatie sized brakes for the trailer. Not to mention an adjustable break controller. But regardless, I still maintain that for offroad use trailer brakes are a good thing.

 

[Embark With Mark]

Sounds like a few people need more practice/experience pulling trailers year around in here. The best advice I have for new to towing people is hook up your trailer on a nice day and go pull it around town, find an out of the way parking lot and practice backing it up straight, then into parking spaces until it's easy to do. The time to learn is not when you're tired, everybody's anxious and you're on a trail in the dark or when it's raining.

Other than on ice or mud the only time I've had a trailer swing out was one with no brakes on it during a panic stop. Also if the trailer is wagging or swaying from a poor road surface, wind or being tail heavy a quick touch on the manual lever on the controller will straighten it right out.

I don't know about other brands but the Prodigy series has "factory" wires that will connect the controller to your newer rig doing nothing but plugging it in.

I don't understand the big worry about "locking up" the brakes on a trailer in here. My controller (Prodigy P2) can be adjusted from locking up the brakes with just a touch on the brake pedal to completely off with the adjustment wheel on it.

I agree, I am not sure where this idea that the trailer brakes lock up easliy. I guess if a brake controller cant be adjusted it would lock up light weight trailers. But all of my controllers have adjustments. I towed this lightweight trailer with a ram 3500. I could adjust the brakes so they didn't lock the tires up. Funny, I use that same controller in almost all my rigs! Good info, thank you for responding.