My experience with Overlanding vs Off-Roading: Is the barrier to entry for Overlanding LOWER?
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Every one in this thread is right. Overlanding and off-roading are two separate things. They tend to intersect because there are only so many interesting civilized places to stay, and there are only so many interesting local places to off-road. Therefore, off-roading is necessary in order to see the best places, and overlanding is necessary in order to wheel in the best places.
My solution is, tow rig and toy rig. One is for traveling and transportation, the other is for off-roading. Both can do either, but not equally well!
My solution is, tow rig and toy rig. One is for traveling and transportation, the other is for off-roading. Both can do either, but not equally well!
To me, there is such a blurry line between the two I really don't separate them anymore.
What qualifies as overlanding? 5 days on the Dusy Ershim trail? 3wks traveling the Dempster? Owning a fridge?
What about wheeling? 2ft, 3ft or 4ft rocks? 2', 3' or 4' water forging? Only going 1mph?
Apparently I qualify as both. Can self sustain on trail for week+ and it can be on some of the most difficult trails. Admittedly does one better than another
I do believe the barrier for overlanding is lower, as long as you admit to yourself necessities over desires. In rock-crawling, necessities are expensive and break often. I think with your initial post you self identified what your preference is and your not being a baby. If its not enjoyable than you are doing it wrong, wheeling or overlanding, doesn't matter.
Few personal takes that might upset some. I have my rig to get away from overlanders & Vans. There is a threshold of exploration limited by your method of transportation; vehicle, backpacking, equestrian, etc. My threshold in my current configuration allows me to go further than most. While I don't utilize that every time I head out for a weekend, there is nothing more satisfying than passing people/vehicles that have hit their limitation and are forced to go back to the shared campsites along with dozens of others. Of course this is an exception, I know you can find remote locations in a Subaru but so can every other Subaru/Rav4/Jeep/Colorado.
Also, ultimate sin. I own one vehicle. I F-up, it makes for a bad time. Trails on the weekend, Bay Area commute Monday.
What qualifies as overlanding? 5 days on the Dusy Ershim trail? 3wks traveling the Dempster? Owning a fridge?
What about wheeling? 2ft, 3ft or 4ft rocks? 2', 3' or 4' water forging? Only going 1mph?
Apparently I qualify as both. Can self sustain on trail for week+ and it can be on some of the most difficult trails. Admittedly does one better than another
I do believe the barrier for overlanding is lower, as long as you admit to yourself necessities over desires. In rock-crawling, necessities are expensive and break often. I think with your initial post you self identified what your preference is and your not being a baby. If its not enjoyable than you are doing it wrong, wheeling or overlanding, doesn't matter.
Few personal takes that might upset some. I have my rig to get away from overlanders & Vans. There is a threshold of exploration limited by your method of transportation; vehicle, backpacking, equestrian, etc. My threshold in my current configuration allows me to go further than most. While I don't utilize that every time I head out for a weekend, there is nothing more satisfying than passing people/vehicles that have hit their limitation and are forced to go back to the shared campsites along with dozens of others. Of course this is an exception, I know you can find remote locations in a Subaru but so can every other Subaru/Rav4/Jeep/Colorado.
Also, ultimate sin. I own one vehicle. I F-up, it makes for a bad time
. Trails on the weekend, Bay Area commute Monday.
@FishFam_logs You're after the best of both worlds. Sounds like you've struck quite a fine balance, may be you could point me to a build thread or some such (in DM's so as not to go off-topic in this thread)? I dig a good build, for any purpose.
For me, the line is very clear. I overland in the tow rig to places where I off-road in the toy!
Ultimately, the discussion comes to these questions: how much of your load capacity do you use, and how much of your vehicle's durability do you expend on a single outing?
I would say I more or less regularly beat the bean dip out of my Explorer (alignments are needed more often than tire rotations), but to judge by how badly three of the five rigs were doing in my group last time at the off-road park, the difference between me and others seems to be that I stay far within the limits of my rig. My lead-footed, sky-wheeling rowdiness has never broken any parts of my truck, ever. Bent, yes. Broken, no. Never made any trail repairs.
The three in the group who moved the most slowly and the most cautiously, broke the most stuff on their rigs; probably because they were the closest to their rigs' limits. Two of those also used their rigs as daily drivers and expressed that they needed to be able to drive home afterward.
Hardcore overland builds don't excel at wheeling. Hardcore wheeling builds don't excel at overlanding. No way around it. Striking the right balance for your own needs is the only right way to go.
Overlanding can be as light or heavy, or as cheap or expensive, as you want it to be. Off-roading is invariably going to be expensive, if not today, then eventually - keep breaking and fixing a cheap rig, or pay a fat stack up front and overbuild. Tow and repair bills if you break your only vehicle, parts and labor if you overbuild, or time and materials if you fabricate every thing yourself.
Overlanding can be as cheap as getting in a car and driving - fuel economy is the limit!
For me, the line is very clear. I overland in the tow rig to places where I off-road in the toy!
Ultimately, the discussion comes to these questions: how much of your load capacity do you use, and how much of your vehicle's durability do you expend on a single outing?
I would say I more or less regularly beat the bean dip out of my Explorer (alignments are needed more often than tire rotations), but to judge by how badly three of the five rigs were doing in my group last time at the off-road park, the difference between me and others seems to be that I stay far within the limits of my rig. My lead-footed, sky-wheeling rowdiness has never broken any parts of my truck, ever. Bent, yes. Broken, no. Never made any trail repairs.
The three in the group who moved the most slowly and the most cautiously, broke the most stuff on their rigs; probably because they were the closest to their rigs' limits. Two of those also used their rigs as daily drivers and expressed that they needed to be able to drive home afterward.
Hardcore overland builds don't excel at wheeling. Hardcore wheeling builds don't excel at overlanding. No way around it. Striking the right balance for your own needs is the only right way to go.
Overlanding can be as light or heavy, or as cheap or expensive, as you want it to be. Off-roading is invariably going to be expensive, if not today, then eventually - keep breaking and fixing a cheap rig, or pay a fat stack up front and overbuild. Tow and repair bills if you break your only vehicle, parts and labor if you overbuild, or time and materials if you fabricate every thing yourself.
Overlanding can be as cheap as getting in a car and driving - fuel economy is the limit!
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Having not read all the responses, and driving a Taco Sport, I understand where you are coming from.
We just went to a FANTASTIC long weekend in VT, called The Pilgrimage. It is, essentially, a 4 day overland rally, at a campsite, with trails of all manner of challenges available for anyone to drive. There were vehicle of literally every caliber: from a bone stock, brand new Bronco Sport, all the way up to unimogs and even foreign military vehicles. Jeeps, Landys, 70 series, 80 series, trucks-you name it. Some purpose built for extreme trails, some what I personally consider "overland" builds.
Now, I am not here to define overlanding for anyone. I came from the jeep world, where bigger is better. And, even though, up here in New England, a 37" tire Jeep on a 3" lift is utterly pointless, people still build them, for VERY specific places (New England is 95% developed land, so we dont have a lot of places to be able to go offroad). But, what I DID learn, is what I need for MY area and what I am comfortable driving.
Lets start off with my vehicle. I have a 21 Tacoma TRD Sport, with a 6 speed manual transmission. No locker. I have a 2.5" lift, heavy front springs, and an AAL leaf in the rear. I am riding on stock 17" wheels, with Falken 255/70/R17s. This gives me about, roughly, 16" or so at the lowest point of the truck.
After running some green trails, and green/blue trails (trail ratings, which are subjective, in VT, are green=any stock 4WD vehicle, blue=slightly modified, with a lift and bigger tires, and red=purpose built rigs), several things came to light:
First, a LOT of the capability of the vehicle comes from the driver, their experience, and knowing the limits of the vehicle itself.
Second, here in New England, we have a lot of exposed granite rocks, which can make a bad day, fast, on the trail.
Third, what someone calls, lets say, a green trail, might have been green WHEN THEY DROVE IT, but isnt now (mind you, these trails are unmaintained "roads", which at one time might have been cart path), and could be in worse, or better, condition, depending on the weather and, honestly, last time someone rated it.
Driving these trails, the one real thing I wished I had, was under armor protection. I HAD side steps on the truck, but those came off as soon as I got home (they got caught on everything, sucked in mud holes, etc). Rock rails and full under panel protection up here is a must. Granite doesnt give against metal. And I would much rather drag a skid plate over a rock, than my diff.
The extent of me doing extreme off roading is pretty low. I enjoy challenges, but am not really interested in extreme rock crawling, or fording rivers as high as my door, or anything like that. Ulitmately, we will be getting a small overland trailer, and that further limits our ability to do those things (having a trailer, traversing the side of a mountain, at an angle, is pretty sketchy-if that thing loses traction, its an anchor, and its taking you wherever it is going). I will also be getting slightly bigger tires, going up to 32", again, more for any POSSIBLE encounters with bad terrain, than to traverse that bad terrain at any great length.
This weekend taught me a lot of what I want to do, and the style of travel I want to participate in. If you have clubs local to you, sit in, ask questions, and start with some easier trails. Easy, again, is subjective-what one person, who has been guiding for a decade, sees as easy, another person, who is going off road for the first time, sees as a white knuckler. But, with good instruction, a trail that is challenging but doable, and a little devil may care attitude, you should be able to dial in exactly what you want to do, and what you think you might need to achieve that with your build
We just went to a FANTASTIC long weekend in VT, called The Pilgrimage. It is, essentially, a 4 day overland rally, at a campsite, with trails of all manner of challenges available for anyone to drive. There were vehicle of literally every caliber: from a bone stock, brand new Bronco Sport, all the way up to unimogs and even foreign military vehicles. Jeeps, Landys, 70 series, 80 series, trucks-you name it. Some purpose built for extreme trails, some what I personally consider "overland" builds.
Now, I am not here to define overlanding for anyone. I came from the jeep world, where bigger is better. And, even though, up here in New England, a 37" tire Jeep on a 3" lift is utterly pointless, people still build them, for VERY specific places (New England is 95% developed land, so we dont have a lot of places to be able to go offroad). But, what I DID learn, is what I need for MY area and what I am comfortable driving.
Lets start off with my vehicle. I have a 21 Tacoma TRD Sport, with a 6 speed manual transmission. No locker. I have a 2.5" lift, heavy front springs, and an AAL leaf in the rear. I am riding on stock 17" wheels, with Falken 255/70/R17s. This gives me about, roughly, 16" or so at the lowest point of the truck.
After running some green trails, and green/blue trails (trail ratings, which are subjective, in VT, are green=any stock 4WD vehicle, blue=slightly modified, with a lift and bigger tires, and red=purpose built rigs), several things came to light:
First, a LOT of the capability of the vehicle comes from the driver, their experience, and knowing the limits of the vehicle itself.
Second, here in New England, we have a lot of exposed granite rocks, which can make a bad day, fast, on the trail.
Third, what someone calls, lets say, a green trail, might have been green WHEN THEY DROVE IT, but isnt now (mind you, these trails are unmaintained "roads", which at one time might have been cart path), and could be in worse, or better, condition, depending on the weather and, honestly, last time someone rated it.
Driving these trails, the one real thing I wished I had, was under armor protection. I HAD side steps on the truck, but those came off as soon as I got home (they got caught on everything, sucked in mud holes, etc). Rock rails and full under panel protection up here is a must. Granite doesnt give against metal. And I would much rather drag a skid plate over a rock, than my diff.
The extent of me doing extreme off roading is pretty low. I enjoy challenges, but am not really interested in extreme rock crawling, or fording rivers as high as my door, or anything like that. Ulitmately, we will be getting a small overland trailer, and that further limits our ability to do those things (having a trailer, traversing the side of a mountain, at an angle, is pretty sketchy-if that thing loses traction, its an anchor, and its taking you wherever it is going). I will also be getting slightly bigger tires, going up to 32", again, more for any POSSIBLE encounters with bad terrain, than to traverse that bad terrain at any great length.
This weekend taught me a lot of what I want to do, and the style of travel I want to participate in. If you have clubs local to you, sit in, ask questions, and start with some easier trails. Easy, again, is subjective-what one person, who has been guiding for a decade, sees as easy, another person, who is going off road for the first time, sees as a white knuckler. But, with good instruction, a trail that is challenging but doable, and a little devil may care attitude, you should be able to dial in exactly what you want to do, and what you think you might need to achieve that with your build
IMO very few people in the lower 48 are overlanding. Most are taking road trips and camping instead of hoteling. Off-roading is clearly different from both of these.
But call it whatever you want if it gets you off the couch and into the outdoors!
But call it whatever you want if it gets you off the couch and into the outdoors!
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Great thread. Shout out to @MOAK nice to read your posts. I was thinking the same thing. There are a handful of vehicles that can do both, a handful.
Wheeling I sometimes I think “Sport”, like mountain biking.
With no value judgement implied, I have to think to the OPs original question, barrier to entry for Overlanding has to be lower.
Meet my Son’s Overlanding vehicle. Don’t laugh it’s a 1/2 ton! :)
Great thread. Shout out to @MOAK nice to read your posts. I was thinking the same thing. There are a handful of vehicles that can do both, a handful.
Wheeling I sometimes I think “Sport”, like mountain biking.
With no value judgement implied, I have to think to the OPs original question, barrier to entry for Overlanding has to be lower.
Meet my Son’s Overlanding vehicle. Don’t laugh it’s a 1/2 ton! :)
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The barrier is what you make it IMHO. I prefer "Overloading" and exploring versus "wheeling" and crawling. With that in mind I put a 2" lift on my JKU, KO2's and it gets me everywhere I want to go. Begin with the end in mind, I spent a year figuring out what it was I wanted to do then made the investment to achieve that set up.
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We have built our rigs with two different mindsets, the old WJ was built for local(ish) travel and to be Michelle's daily driver for work, always carries tools, recovery and emergency gear but remains a light weight build with a compact drawer fridge, arb awning and roof rack. for overnighters minimal camping gear and tent are added. This keeps the weight and center of gravity down, and with not being too far from home base we can afford to take more risks on trails and difficult obstacles as it would not be to difficult to have someone bring us the tow bar to drag it back home. The JK was way at the other end of the spectrum and built with the intent of going long distance and as much time away from civilization as possible. Many more factory parts were replaced with aftermarket with design intent for increased off road capabilities at a level of about 1.5 times what we anticipate doing on an a trip to avoid constantly running at its limits and knowing sometime we will need all it has to offer. Now we have been using if for the past couple of years and learned how capable it is even when fully loaded and how much I enjoy a challenge, the co-pilot has to remind me often to choose the easier route and keep all four wheels on the ground lol. The JK does stay fully loaded year round (Fridge is always on and stocked with food) as we like to be able to leave in short order if we get some free time. Also nice to have all the gear and food if out on a day trip and decide to not come home.
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I think these can be one in the same. The more extreme being off roading/wheeling. Athough it is all exploring things off the beaten path, some people enjoy harder, technical trails or trails that require more specialized equipment. In the end we all have the same goal: be with nature, enjoy ourselves and leave it better than we found it. The bar is where you as an individual set it... yoi can overland/offroad in a prius, if you so choose, or build up a rig that will crawl over anything you throw at it.
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I like this take because it adds another layer of consideration (local vs long-distance travel). Where I’m at here, the closest adventure is about 4 hours drive, so I find I’d err on the latter side of your spectrum.
Long time lurkers. We joined to participate in this discussion FWIW. Anyway, we don't think the labels are useful. We came to overlanding / offroading after decades of hiking/climbing/backpacking. In that world the same debates rage about who's "really" doing the sport. Weekend backpackers vs technical climbers vs "through-hikers" who spend weeks or months on the trials at a time. Who cares? As long as you're doing what you enjoy and being a steward of the trails do whatever your budget and work/family responsibilities allow.
We've found it extremely similar with the overlanding/offroading culture. The "off-roading/wheeling" crowd, like the technical climbing crowd, are equipment and skill focused. The outdoors part is typically a secondary means to and end. The through-hikers are like the purist overlanders, the journey is the destination.
But the truth is, in both worlds, the vast majority of us are doing something in the middle and very much enjoying it.
The idea for us, transitioning from weekend/expedition backpacking to overlanding when our knees started to warn us, is always just to get outside and rustic camp in places not all can go, be self-sufficient and somewhat minimalist. Sometimes that means simply randomly driving out to where the cell phone stops working, base camping and spending the days driving and hiking various difficulty trails (eg Class IV or VI roads in NH or VT). Other times it means long drives on a mix of pavement, gravel and not too challenging forest or firetrail road and getting out to hike a waterfall or see a point of interest like an old forge or mill, a battlefield, or an abandoned ski lodge (the BDRs are great for that highly recommend).
As long as the constant is being together, being outside and relying on ourselves as much as possible, we don't care what it's called.
We've found it extremely similar with the overlanding/offroading culture. The "off-roading/wheeling" crowd, like the technical climbing crowd, are equipment and skill focused. The outdoors part is typically a secondary means to and end. The through-hikers are like the purist overlanders, the journey is the destination.
But the truth is, in both worlds, the vast majority of us are doing something in the middle and very much enjoying it.
The idea for us, transitioning from weekend/expedition backpacking to overlanding when our knees started to warn us, is always just to get outside and rustic camp in places not all can go, be self-sufficient and somewhat minimalist. Sometimes that means simply randomly driving out to where the cell phone stops working, base camping and spending the days driving and hiking various difficulty trails (eg Class IV or VI roads in NH or VT). Other times it means long drives on a mix of pavement, gravel and not too challenging forest or firetrail road and getting out to hike a waterfall or see a point of interest like an old forge or mill, a battlefield, or an abandoned ski lodge (the BDRs are great for that highly recommend).
As long as the constant is being together, being outside and relying on ourselves as much as possible, we don't care what it's called.
WELCOME!
glad you joined and always good to hear other's opinions...especially if they are opinions i agree with!
how's boondocking in the new england states? i was stationed at groton, ct back in the 80s and did a good bit of backpacking all thru there, but never really noticed a lot of places to have dispersed camping. ive been promising the wife i'd take her up there for the fall colors and im eventually going to have to make good on it...sounds like y'all might have some good info
good to have y'all as members and looking forward to your posts and pictures of your adventures up there
Hey everyone, hoping someone on here can help me. I purchased a membership a few days ago and all I got was an email saying overland will let me know when my item has shipped. It appears I’m still on a free trial. Does anyone know if this is the standard for membership purchasing?
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Hi Todd,
Welcome to Overland Bound.
I think the best is when you email support@overlandbound.com as suggested by @Jim SoG earlier:
Resolved - Membership purchase
I just purchased an annual membership but it’s showing as an item waiting to ship and I have no member access. Anyone ever deal with this?
Greetings from Europe,
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Thank you, I sent two messages a few days ago and haven’t heard. I guess I’ll keep waiting. Cheers!Hi Todd,
Welcome to Overland Bound.
I think the best is when you email support@overlandbound.com as suggested by @Jim SoG earlier:
Resolved - Membership purchase
I just purchased an annual membership but it’s showing as an item waiting to ship and I have no member access. Anyone ever deal with this?www.overlandbound.com
Greetings from Europe,
Bjoern
CT is terrible. There's no real overlanding route, no real public trails for whatever version of offroading one may like and certainly no ability to integrate a 4-6 rated trail into an overlanding trip. Primitive camping in CT is no better. Pretty much Nipmuck state forest is it and you need a reservation with the state so not true boondocking. MA is ok for some overlanding. There are routes through the berkshires, Campbell state forest and October mountain that are a really nice mix of pavement, gravel and true offroading trails all on a continuous route with lots of little hikes and stops along the way. The NEBDR segment 3 is a good base to start and then do custom route planning. The camping in MA however is all state park or private. Some decent stuff on Graylock but its not true boondocking. VT, NH, ME are where we go for true off grid, no fee, overland/primitive camp. There are a number of routes that are good to use as bases to build your own. NEBDR 4 - 6, The Hampster, the TransNewHampshire Exploration route, the Little Hampster etc. OnXOffroad and Gaia both let you upload the GPS waypoints for planning. I've favored OnX lately b/c their trail reports were very accurate during the big floods in VT this past summer.WELCOME!
glad you joined and always good to hear other's opinions...especially if they are opinions i agree with!
how's boondocking in the new england states? i was stationed at groton, ct back in the 80s and did a good bit of backpacking all thru there, but never really noticed a lot of places to have dispersed camping. ive been promising the wife i'd take her up there for the fall colors and im eventually going to have to make good on it...sounds like y'all might have some good info
good to have y'all as members and looking forward to your posts and pictures of your adventures up there
Tread Lighty!
you're in my neck of the woods. the pilgrimage attracts overlanders and is advertised as an overlanders event is but its rustic lux base camping (ie food trucks) + offroading. its more like a vendor exhibition meets an all-vehicle Jeep Jamboree. they also make up their own trail rating system (it's not a "VT" trail rating system it's their own custom thing). not knocking any of it in any way shape or form. contrary, just pointing out exactly what a lot of us are saying. putting aside the obvious extremes, there is no definitive definition of what's overlanding and what's offroading.
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I live in New Hampshire and recently purchased a GMC Canyon AT4 and really want to bring my kids out into the wilderness on some easy/moderate trails to drive on. Super new to this, any trail specific trails I should look for?CT is terrible. There's no real overlanding route, no real public trails for whatever version of offroading one may like and certainly no ability to integrate a 4-6 rated trail into an overlanding trip. Primitive camping in CT is no better. Pretty much Nipmuck state forest is it and you need a reservation with the state so not true boondocking. MA is ok for some overlanding. There are routes through the berkshires, Campbell state forest and October mountain that are a really nice mix of pavement, gravel and true offroading trails all on a continuous route with lots of little hikes and stops along the way. The NEBDR segment 3 is a good base to start and then do custom route planning. The camping in MA however is all state park or private. Some decent stuff on Graylock but its not true boondocking. VT, NH, ME are where we go for true off grid, no fee, overland/primitive camp. There are a number of routes that are good to use as bases to build your own. NEBDR 4 - 6, The Hampster, the TransNewHampshire Exploration route, the Little Hampster etc. OnXOffroad and Gaia both let you upload the GPS waypoints for planning. I've favored OnX lately b/c their trail reports were very accurate during the big floods in VT this past summer.WELCOME!
glad you joined and always good to hear other's opinions...especially if they are opinions i agree with!
how's boondocking in the new england states? i was stationed at groton, ct back in the 80s and did a good bit of backpacking all thru there, but never really noticed a lot of places to have dispersed camping. ive been promising the wife i'd take her up there for the fall colors and im eventually going to have to make good on it...sounds like y'all might have some good info
good to have y'all as members and looking forward to your posts and pictures of your adventures up there
Tread Lighty!
You are blessed to live in an overlanders play ground. This site lists every Class VI road. No guarantee any one raod is going to be easy on a given day as conditions change pretty rapidly (and if you want easy generally avoid the stuff around Unity/Claremont at least til the Spring), but there's something for every skill level. New Hampshire Roads click on the "towns" tab at the top. find a town near you and viola it'll show you every Class VI road. If you're willing to invest in an offroad nav app, some will have recent trail reports to give you a sense of the difficulty. For instance rookies are being warned off Cobble Hill near Pisgah right now.
Anyway, cannot say enough about NH for overlanding/offroading/primitive camping. Aint gonna give up all my spots on a public forum but if you use that map (and especially if you combine it with a paid app) you'll have years of exploring ahead of you.
Tread Lightly!
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