Legal Weapons and Overlanding

[Kelly]

I usually like to pack a rifle or 12ga while out camping. I'd say 60% for protection and 40% for pleasure if I happen to be in an area where I can shoot.

Rifles and shotguns are awesome, but you're more likely to come across a bear while on a hike, then you are in camp.  The best gun is the one you have with you.

 

[Kelly]

I do have a handgun and carry when I'm on the ranch or out hunting. I don't worry too much about people. It's the hogs you have to watch out for. Those things are bat s*** crazy. It is way to easy to get your CHL here in Texas. I had one guy who had never fired a gun before pass. He barely scored over 50% at 6 feet. I'm for guns, but I don't want to be anywhere near that guy when he tries to be a hero.

I'm all about 2A rights. Anyone should be able to have any gun they want in their home, but the world would be a safer place if everyone who wanted to carry in public were required to pass a tactical shooting course.

 

[Kelly]

I think if I was going to get a "pistol" in a pistol caliber, I would go for a CZ Scorpion. Sig makes a great gun, I love their pistols and AR platform rifles.

Check out the APC 10 Pro. Patented hydraulic buffer. No recoil even in 10 mm. The full auto version is the first sub-gun to get a government contract since the grease gun in World War II.

 

[Kelly]

I carry a glock 19 everywhere and when out exploring i always take a long gun

Sent from my LGMS631 using Overland Bound Talk mobile app

Glock 19's are adorable. lol #glock29
;-)

 

[Kelly]

Hi Everyone, I was wondering if you guys ever carry legal weapons out on the trail or while camping.
Some may bring rifles for hunting, some may bring handguns for personal protection, some may not even bring any weapons along on their trips. Many feel it ruins the spirit of the trip.

What are your feelings towards this subject?
I can totally understand if you do carry, why you wouldn't want to advertise. But hey, there's a whole lotta crazy out there, and a lot of it is out in the sticks. So, im curious on what you guys thoughts are.

I suggest always having an efficient way to defend yourself from possible harm, not matter the origin of the harm. That being said, never use a cannon to kill a fly.

I fully admit to being a Glock fanboy, and bring a 26 (Subcompact 9mm). I also bring a Mossberg 930 and my home build AR. Anyone could consider that to be a well rounded selection or overkill. The main land I have gone to lately has an open firing range, and I get a little practice in every time I go.
I may soon dig back into my gunsmithing hobby and build a rifle specifically for traveling outdoors.

A wise man once said "it is better to kill a fly with a 10 mm, than to hit a bear with a flyswatter" ;-)

 

[Kelly]

With my boys as young as they are I don't bring any when we are out camping or traveling. I don't feel I need any protection other than being alert and aware.

I do enjoy plinking and shooting though and when my boys are older I'll introduce them to it. In Nevada, it's pretty easy to cary. But we almost always cross over to CA on weekend trips.

-M

No judgment. Those not comfortable carrying a gun should not carry a gun. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Kelly]

For starters, the 1911 is a single-action semiautomatic. In addition to this action, we have striker fired, double-single action, double-plus action, etc. Weight is also an issue, newer guns can be much easier to break down and clean, and double stack magazines are more common in newer pistols. Cost is also a factor with polymers bringing down the cost considerably.

I love the 1911, but I don't like carrying loaded and cocked. My carry gun is typically a Ruger LC9s, it is smaller, lighter, and, in my opinion, safer than a loaded and cocked 1911.

I like my LC9 but it has no safety. I feel like the 1911, cocked and locked, is much safer. Since this is an overlanding forum, which to me means wilderness, I don't consider 9 mm or 45 ACP to be viable option.

 

[Kelly]

Ok, was curious as it sounds you've used 1911's and others. Amazing though that a 105 year old design is still to this day at least in the mix, if not the top dog, for consumers to consider.

I agree completely. I love my 1911s as target guns, they are study, reliable, and I know them inside and out. Honestly, those 1960s Colts are my benchmark when I look for a new handgun. My CZ, FN, and Ruger were all up against the venerable 1911 when I purchased them.

I was also highly skeptical of each of those pistols, I preferred steel-frames, hated 9mm, and didn't like striker fired weapons. My CZ is a polymer 9mm, the FN is a polymer .45 ACP, and the Ruger is the one I thought I would hate the most - a super-compact polymer striker-fired 9mm. Each one has advantages over the 1911, but the 1911 is still my sweetheart. The weight, balance, recoil characteristics, and ergonomics are all very familiar and comfortable for me. The recoil of a good 1911 full frame is a thing of beauty; it's less snappy than a 9mm so you feel the push more in your shoulder than a snap in the wrist, and as that slide comes forward after the shot it tends to pull the muzzle right back on target again. I am more accurate with my 1911 doing rapid fire than I am with any of my 9mm or polymer pistols (for one thing, the balance of the gun changes so much more as you fire a polymer gun because a greater percentage of weight is moving with the last shot compared to the first).

I love the 1911 platform, and you can get it in 10 mm for bear defense, but I went with the Glock 20 because it's lighter, higher capacity, and shares the same magazines with my carbine.

 

[Kelly]

As someone who doesn't even own a gun, I can't relate to the always armed thing. Do you live somewhere you feel threatened constantly? This is in no way an anti-gun post, I'm just curious is all. I love to go shooting, just never considered owning so much firepower.

I carry everyday and not because I feel threatened, I do it because I like to. Other peoples reasons are different.

No one has a problem with dialing 911,  so the issue is whether or not you want to be self-reliant.

 

[Kelly]

As someone who doesn't even own a gun, I can't relate to the always armed thing. Do you live somewhere you feel threatened constantly? This is in no way an anti-gun post, I'm just curious is all. I love to go shooting, just never considered owning so much firepower.

To me, guns are no different than seatbelts or fire extinguishers. They are tools which are available for me to defend life and property.

Do I expect to need a medium-caliber rifle and pistol, both with multiple extra magazines, every time I leave the house? Absolutely not!! (If I did feel that way, then I'd be moving somewhere safer). HOWEVER... If I am ever caught in the middle of a mass-shooting scenario, or someone attempts to carjack me... I will be very glad I have the necessary tools available to protect myself and those around me.

Using lethal force to defend property used to be fine, even in California, but I'd be careful about that now. Many DAs have lost their minds.

 

[Kelly]

I take mine everywhere.
View attachment 9087

Google "OpSec" lol

 

[Kelly]

Specifically, on the topic of "Legal Weapons and Overlanding" (not hunting or home defense), we are talking about only two things, a gun on your person, and/or in your truck/camper. When you are in the wilderness, you need something with you at all times (hiking, pooping, etc ;-), so I would say handgun (in an appropriate caliber for bear or moose), would be your best choice if you only had one.  As for a "truck gun",  you'll have a hard time justifying shooting an aggressive animal, or unarmed human threat, more than 50 feet away. For that reason, you should consider a shotgun. It's not the best weapon for sure, but you'll have much less hassle, from law enforcement and district attorneys, using a shotgun for self-defense. You can even take them into Canada. Long guns suck inside a tent or camper, so look for a bullpup option. if you're concerned about someone shooting at you, outside the range of a pistol or shotgun, I recommend the Barrett 50 CAL ;-)

 

[Kelly]

Something to consider: If you've spent more than $5k on firearms/ammo, but don't have night vision or thermal capability, you may want to reconsider. Most problems happen in the dark, and a flashlight is like a bull's-eye. In most situations, I'd take one gun, 30 rounds, and a PVS14, over an Arsenal.

 

[Arailt]

Just picked up a G Lock in 10mm. I flyfish on some remote (read Grizzly Bear infested} streams in N. Idaho and Montana, This caliber was recommended to assist in defending myself from these fish stealing rogues...

My choice would have been something like .44 magnum for Grizz, but there's something to be said about round count and speed of fire, as well as quick reloads, and 10mm is surely no slouch. Lighter than carrying a huge revolver too. Solid all around choice I'd say.

 Round count is only half the story.  Anyone trying to decide between the two, find a range that rents both 44 magnum revolver, and Glock 20.  See how many rounds you can get on target in three seconds.  A significant amount of the recoil on semi automatic pistols is used to cycle the slide.  Always use hard cast rounds on large game.

If you can only get off one round, the 44mag trumps a 10mm auto. Or if you’re using it to hunt, as in your primary firearm (handgun hunting). All other self-defense scenarios, I would take the 10mm. Train, train, train with whatever pistol you choose and recoil management will be a non-issue.

44mag
-more fun to shoot at the range
-people will bug you to shoot it at the range
-make big fire
-Dirty Harry reference

10mm (g20 gen5)
-round affordability (nearly half the price of .44mag)
-capacity (15+ vs 6)
-less recoil compared to 44mag
-easier to carry (lighter, more concealable, more holster options)
-can easily carry multiple extra magazines
-easier to reload
-optics ready slide
-light mount options
-it takes Glock mags :p

 

[MidOH]

No one has a problem with dialing 911,  so the issue is whether or not you want to be self-reliant.

Achually, lol.....

I have a problem dialing 911. If I'm in the back country and can SSS, I'm going to do so.

Our courts are rigged to whatever the flavor of popular opinion is. Not the law.

 

[MidOH]

Google "OpSec" lol

Not really.

That's normal in every campground out there.

Opsec would be posting a picture of your Rtt and plate, but forgetting to take down the scalp pinned to your tarp beam under the Rtt.

 

[Hammer Time]

... You're not going to carry a rifle or shotgun when you go on a hike. If you can only have one gun, get a handgun and always have it with you ... if I could only have one gun it would be the Glock 29.

I've been a firearms instructor for about 40 years. I've taught thousands of people to shoot. I agree with the first two statements here, but strongly disagree with the recommendation of the Glock 29 as a first gun for a beginner. It's a strongly recoiling hand gun due to the caliber and the weight/size of the gun. Many experienced shooters find its recoil to be too much for them. Yes, you can train with lighter loads and then carry heavier loads when going in harm's way, but even the light loads in this caliber will make it hard to learn, and unpleasant for the average new shooter to train with. And training is essential if one wants to learn to shoot a handgun quickly and accurately.

There are bears in CA but only black bears which are not nearly as tough or as large as their northern cousin, the grizzly. One is at much more risk from two legged creatures than four legged creatures, even in the outback areas that overlanders crave. A 9mm with hard cast bullets will handle both risks in the lower 48. If Canada or other places where there are large, thick skinned, heavily muscled animals (like the grizzly) is the destination than the .44 mag should be considered, because it's more powerful than the 10mm. It's not about getting off three rounds as fast as possible, it's about delivering them ACCURATELY into vulnerable areas.

No matter what handgun/caliber you get, I suggest that you get professional training on how to use your gun. It's expensive, but it's worth it. it's far easier to learn new habits than to unlearn the bad ones that will probably come from training from a friend or neighbor 'who owns a lot of guns.'

 

[Kelly]

... You're not going to carry a rifle or shotgun when you go on a hike. If you can only have one gun, get a handgun and always have it with you ... if I could only have one gun it would be the Glock 29.

I've been a firearms instructor for about 40 years. I've taught thousands of people to shoot. I agree with the first two statements here, but strongly disagree with the recommendation of the Glock 29 as a first gun for a beginner. It's a strongly recoiling hand gun due to the caliber and the weight/size of the gun. Many experienced shooters find its recoil to be too much for them. Yes, you can train with lighter loads and then carry heavier loads when going in harm's way, but even the light loads in this caliber will make it hard to learn, and unpleasant for the average new shooter to train with. And training is essential if one wants to learn to shoot a handgun quickly and accurately.

There are bears in CA but only black bears which are not nearly as tough or as large as their northern cousin, the grizzly. One is at much more risk from two legged creatures than four legged creatures, even in the outback areas that overlanders crave. A 9mm with hard cast bullets will handle both risks in the lower 48. If Canada or other places where there are large, thick skinned, heavily muscled animals (like the grizzly) is the destination than the .44 mag should be considered, because it's more powerful than the 10mm. It's not about getting off three rounds as fast as possible, it's about delivering them ACCURATELY into vulnerable areas.

No matter what handgun/caliber you get, I suggest that you get professional training on how to use your gun. It's expensive, but it's worth it. it's far easier to learn new habits than to unlearn the bad ones that will probably come from training from a friend or neighbor 'who owns a lot of guns.'

Glock 29 is too much recoil for a beginner. 44 magnum is better for bear defense. Accuracy is the most important thing. Got it!

 

[RJ Howell]

Something to consider: If you've spent more than $5k on firearms/ammo, but don't have night vision or thermal capability, you may want to reconsider. Most problems happen in the dark, and a flashlight is like a bull's-eye. In most situations, I'd take one gun, 30 rounds, and a PVS14, over an Arsenal.

My worst situation thought of is being inside the camper and the forced entry. To that I've installed a spot light at eye level to switch on from inside. Once outside I'd be silhouetted, yet should be able to slide right or left. Thinking I may mount 3 more and cover all sides. Night vision makes me feel like I'm extending the situation and may be tougher to defend in court.

 

[MidOH]

NV ain't handy up close, behind the ball. Especially with lights all over.

If you have the initiative though, they're priceless. So your assumption is correct, it would look really bad.