Legal Weapons and Overlanding

[CR-Venturer]

Just picked up a G Lock in 10mm. I flyfish on some remote (read Grizzly Bear infested} streams in N. Idaho and Montana, This caliber was recommended to assist in defending myself from these fish stealing rogues...

My choice would have been something like .44 magnum for Grizz, but there's something to be said about round count and speed of fire, as well as quick reloads, and 10mm is surely no slouch. Lighter than carrying a huge revolver too. Solid all around choice I'd say.

 

[lhoffm4]

I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of weapons on board this vessel and or my person...

 

[HighVoltOverland]

I would encourage anyone in a state that is less friendly to 2A to look at the CCW requirements I’d they haven’t recently.
This last year was a big win for gun rights activists in states like NY and CA the decision of the SCOTUS largely changed the status who of who could get approval for a CCW.
Additionally, for travel a UT license has a very good reciprocity. CCW can help with benign transport laws and random “gotchas”.

 

[DaleRF]

I would encourage anyone in a state that is less friendly to 2A to look at the CCW requirements I’d they haven’t recently.
This last year was a big win for gun rights activists in states like NY and CA the decision of the SCOTUS largely changed the status who of who could get approval for a CCW.
Additionally, for travel a UT license has a very good reciprocity. CCW can help with benign transport laws and random “gotchas”.

Good info. Thanks

 

[Pranqster]

Once again it has happened. At an OB event a member was showing bad gun ownership. Long time followers of this thread can see what happened at another event I attended a few years back with poor firearms ownership. I don't really care if you carry a gun or not. That's your own business and I'm not going to butt in on it. When you pull it out and start pointing it around without regard to the others around you then it does become my business. But for a second time at a OB event I was witness to firearms being handled in a manor that would get you kicked out of a firing range. I was sitting in a chair enjoying the view and a few members had been talking guns. On of the people disappeared for a bit and showed back up with his pistol in hand and was showing off it's features to another member when in his eagerness to please I had the weapon inadvertently pointed at me. I exploded into a loud protest to have him point the weapon away from me. He told me it was unloaded. (this is never a proper response to pointing a gun at someone) I told him I didn't care and to put the gun way if he couldn't handle it properly. As a gun owner myself I NEVER pull it out to show it off. I was taught from a very early age that you don't show your hole card. What is even more disturbing is that he was ex military. Of all the people who should know how to handle a weapon it should be him. He did come up and apologize to me in person for the incident but that was little comfort. I believe he should have been asked by the Rally Point organizer leave the event. I did not organize the event but If I had I would have asked him to leave. What are your thoughts on this type of negligence? Am I overreacting? @Kent R @Michael

Ya, a little.

 

[Pranqster]

I am considering the purchase of a gun for home defense and overlanding defense especially now that we are bringing my GF sons with us occasionally. I have only fired a handgun once about 30 years ago and obviously have never owned a gun of any type. I am looking for opinions on what would be a good multiuse weapon for the home/outdoors. I am in CA so not worried about grizzlies but more about other critters, 2 and 4-legged. I am not interested in purchasing multiple weapons at this time. I have been told a shorter barreled shotgun with alternating shells/slugs, .44 mag pistol, rifle, and I'm still not sure what to do. Obviously, safety is first and foremost and the vast majority of my friends have numerous guns and are happy to take me out, educate and show me use and care. I'd like to see what my fellow OB friends would recommend.
**please no ‘you live in Commiefornia, vote Republican, etc, etc’. ***

start here.

 

[NM95Bronco]

Not bragging, but a bit of my creds may help a bit here. I’m a 30 year retired LEO who was the Rangemaster for his LEA for several years. I've competed in IPSC and IDPA. I was on a SWAT team for three years. I worked in a team that investigated OIS and I've seen a couple of dozen autopsies that resulted from shootings. I've spoken to pathologists for hundreds of hours about causes of death, by all kinds of weapons. I'm the senior instructor for a very busy firearms training school and I've been instructing for about 30 years.







The .38 is the personal minimum caliber for my needs. Quite a few people will carry less powerful calibers, and they often discover too late, that they're under gunned. There may be reasons why someone may lean this way, but absent them, I prefer a more powerful round. The opposite opinion says, "It's better than a pointy stick." And it is. But not by much.







So can a ".38 revolver." The difference is that it's rare that the auto can't be cleared in a few seconds. OTOH, when a revolver jams it usually needs a well‒lit workbench and some tools to repair it. There's a reason that military armies the world over, have switched overwhelmingly to semi‒autos.







When carrying a semi‒auto, a round should be chambered BEFORE putting the gun into its holster. That way one NEVER has to cycle the slide to chamber a round when a threat appears.







As I've said before in this thread, GET SOME PROFESSIONAL TRAINING! If you're still scared about this happening, carry one of the numerous striker‒fired firearms available these days, like the Glock. They do not have a manual safety lever.







Only someone who is committing a crime should find this information of value. If you're in a shooting, unless you're still being threatened after the assaulter is down, e.g. an angry crowd, his crime partners, etc., you'd better be on the scene when LE arrives. If you leave, you WILL BE REGARDED as the suspect and will be treated accordingly when you're located.







While both are possible, I've seen many jacketed rounds that could not be matched "to the weapon's barrel …" and many wadcutters that could be matched.







It happens, but USUALLY it's because the person didn't follow the law. or did something extremely stupid that he heard through folklore, such as moving the body to put himself in a better light, or adding 'evidence.'







Which is why I suggested PROFESSIONAL TRAINING. A good CCW class, or even a basic firearms class should present info as to the law covering deadly force, and when it's appropriate, when it's not, and how you will be judged after a use of it. Trying to get that info from your next door neighbor, your BIL who is a police officer, or your uncle who was "in the war" is a bad idea. Far better to stick to a criminal defense attorney who is well versed in self‒defense law. Here's a hint. MOST criminal defense attorneys are not.

this should be pinned for all to read that consider carry, even not overland. Experience and knowledge. Thank you, Hammer Time.

 

[Jhop567]

To add to NM95BRONCO's comments, get CCW insurance, because if you are involved in a shooting, you can bet you will be sued!!!

 

[DaleRF]

To add to NM95BRONCO's comments, get CCW insurance, because if you are involved in a shooting, you can bet you will be sued!!!

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/

 

[Hammer Time]

To add to NM95BRONCO's comments, get CCW insurance, because if you are involved in a shooting, you can bet you will be sued!!!

In the industry, the saying goes, "Every bullet fired has a lawsuit attached to it." It's not quite a "guarantee," but there's a pretty good chance it will happen.

 

[WalDawg]

I am new to overlanding but been a "gun guy" and camper/hunter for decades.
There are some very good bits of advice in this thread. Checking local laws before driving through (NY and Ca. I am looking at you) If something happens and you have to answer uncomfortable questions be honest and plead ignorance. Most back country LEO are sympathetic to the need for personal defense in the middle of nowhere and more often than not if they think you are a reasonable person and doing nothing else wrong and just didn't know you will told to put it away or just leave with a warning.

 

[DaleRF]

I am new to overlanding but been a "gun guy" and camper/hunter for decades.
There are some very good bits of advice in this thread. Checking local laws before driving through (NY and Ca. I am looking at you) If something happens and you have to answer uncomfortable questions be honest and plead ignorance. Most back country LEO are sympathetic to the need for personal defense in the middle of nowhere and more often than not if they think you are a reasonable person and doing nothing else wrong and just didn't know you will told to put it away or just leave with a warning.

Hello, and Welcome for Arizona!

 

[Ubiety]

Checking local laws before driving through (NY and Ca. I am looking at you)

WA and OR too, especially the more populous Western areas. You all just narrowly avoided a rant ;)

 

[bgenlvtex]

I am new to overlanding but been a "gun guy" and camper/hunter for decades.
There are some very good bits of advice in this thread. Checking local laws before driving through (NY and Ca. I am looking at you) If something happens and you have to answer uncomfortable questions be honest and plead ignorance. Most back country LEO are sympathetic to the need for personal defense in the middle of nowhere and more often than not if they think you are a reasonable person and doing nothing else wrong and just didn't know you will told to put it away or just leave with a warning.

If you "have to answer uncomfortable questions", do so only in the presence of and on the advisement of your Attorney.

Do not spin the wheel of fortune. It is 2023 not 1964. Relying on a sympathetic response from someone unlikely to be sympathetic is a profoundly bad plan, in fact it is no plan at all.

 

[Hammer Time]

If you "have to answer uncomfortable questions", do so only in the presence of and on the advisement of your Attorney.

Do not spin the wheel of fortune. It is 2023 not 1964. Relying on a sympathetic response from someone unlikely to be sympathetic is a profoundly bad plan, in fact it is no plan at all.

I suggest that you answer questions that ID yourself (name, address, DOB, etc.) and make a general statement (tailored to fit your situation) to the effect, "He ordered me to give him my wallet and said that if I didn't, he'd kill me. I thought I was going to die!" Then give a general description about where you were standing, where he was standing, the presence of any witnesses and/or evidence, and then say, "Officer I will cooperate fully with your investigation in 48 hours after I speak to my attorney." That sets you up as the cooperative crime victim/witness," but protects your rights. DO NOT say how many rounds you fired. It's extremely rare that a victim in these situations is able to count rounds with any accuracy.

 

[Outdoordog]

I have an air rifle. Basically a BB gun on steroids.
Semi, 0.30 cal, 900+ force, supressor, no recoil, folding stock, 45 grain slugs that will easily take down deer and boar.
Wanting to get a CF scuba tank, to refill rifle, and possibly fill tires and air impact/tools.

 

[Kelly]

Just picked up a G Lock in 10mm. I flyfish on some remote (read Grizzly Bear infested} streams in N. Idaho and Montana, This caliber was recommended to assist in defending myself from these fish stealing rogues...

My choice would have been something like .44 magnum for Grizz, but there's something to be said about round count and speed of fire, as well as quick reloads, and 10mm is surely no slouch. Lighter than carrying a huge revolver too. Solid all around choice I'd say.

 Round count is only half the story.  Anyone trying to decide between the two, find a range that rents both 44 magnum revolver, and Glock 20.  See how many rounds you can get on target in three seconds.  A significant amount of the recoil on semi automatic pistols is used to cycle the slide.  Always use hard cast rounds on large game.

 

[Kelly]

I have an air rifle. Basically a BB gun on steroids.
Semi, 0.30 cal, 900+ force, supressor, no recoil, folding stock, 45 grain slugs that will easily take down deer and boar.
Wanting to get a CF scuba tank, to refill rifle, and possibly fill tires and air impact/tools.
View attachment 270320

Check your local regulations on hunting with an air rifle.

 

[Kelly]

Just picked up a G Lock in 10mm. I flyfish on some remote (read Grizzly Bear infested} streams in N. Idaho and Montana, This caliber was recommended to assist in defending myself from these fish stealing rogues...

I'm all in on 10mm. Glock 29 EDC with hollow points, Glock 20 in a chest rig with hard cast grizzly rounds, and a 10mm carbine with 60gr (2400fps) for longer shots. My favorite thing is that they all share the same mags, From 10, 15, & 30 round standard, up to 50 round drum. You made the right choice! :-)

 

[Kelly]

I am considering the purchase of a gun for home defense and overlanding defense especially now that we are bringing my GF sons with us occasionally. I have only fired a handgun once about 30 years ago and obviously have never owned a gun of any type. I am looking for opinions on what would be a good multiuse weapon for the home/outdoors. I am in CA so not worried about grizzlies but more about other critters, 2 and 4-legged. I am not interested in purchasing multiple weapons at this time. I have been told a shorter barreled shotgun with alternating shells/slugs, .44 mag pistol, rifle, and I'm still not sure what to do. Obviously, safety is first and foremost and the vast majority of my friends have numerous guns and are happy to take me out, educate and show me use and care. I'd like to see what my fellow OB friends would recommend.
**please no ‘you live in Commiefornia, vote Republican, etc, etc’. ***

There are good arguments to be made for almost every type of gun, but it really comes down to this: the best gun is the one you have with you. You're not going to carry a rifle or shotgun when you go on a hike. You're not going to have a rifle or shotgun next to you when you're watching TV on the couch. If you can only have one gun, get a handgun and always have it with you.  There may not be bears in California, but you're an Overlander, so you'll come across them eventually.  if I could only have one gun it would be the Glock 29.