Just my 2c. I have a pistol grip Mossberg 20 gauge that is easy to shoot and for a home defense weapon seems powerful enough to stop someone in their tracks with the right ammo. You are not shooting at very long range and the kick is a lot less than a 12 ga. so one would be inclined to practice with it more often.
Legal Weapons and Overlanding
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I would suggest a short 12ga shot gun. I have a double barrel 12ga coach gun as used on stage coaches back in the day. I added a stock ammo band which holds 6 12ga rounds. It shoots well from both waist and shoulder level and is easy to handle. It's also fairly heavy which increases accuracy and dampens recoil. It is my go to gun for home and back woods.
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Explorer I
I have a coach gun chambered in .410 - what a great little varmint gun!
Another thing to consider are your locality's safe storage laws - in other words where are you going to keep it when not facing down baddies like Rambo? My guess is that a gun safe (or other acceptable method) will be a required purchase. Given safe storage requirements will you be able to keep a long gun somewhere that it will actually be accessible enough to do some good? How will you secure any firearm when on the road / at camp?
One of the benefits to possessing a concealed carry permit is the ability to keep a loaded pistol with you in your vehicle (or on your person outside of your vehicle) - pistol not long gun in the vehicle and check your local laws. IMO the time required to get a long gun out of safe storage and load it negates some/most of the benefits. On the other hand, carrying a loaded pistol with a concealed carry permit meets assumed legal storage requirements and is a quicker solution when quickness matters.
And above all, as others have mentioned, train train train and edumacate yourself. Same goes for the kids - build in responsible gun ownership traits from the get go. My kids have a healthy fear of firearms because they have been exposed and trained - this does not mean that I trust them completely, just that I trust them enough to do the right thing. They may never choose to own firearms but they do know how to act in the presence of firearms.
Firearms that can be chambered in multiple ammo types should also be considered - cheap, less abusive, ammo for the majority of training and the "good stuff" for when it matters. For instance a firearm chambered in .357 can most often also use the cheaper and less abusive .38 ammo. Same goes for .454 Casull and .45 Long Colt - though .45 LC has gotten obscenely expensive but remains cheaper than its more powerful counterpart. I can train with cheaper, less abusive, .45 LC all day long and then make a canoe when it matters.
madcratebuilder
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Training, learn your state gun laws, a major task in CA. A 9mm/.45 pistol or a shotgun, Rem 870 is a good choice.
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357 magnum is ridiculous in price and not the easiest to come by, at least in the areas of the southeast we have been. It is slowly coming back but still at or over $1 per round. 38 isn't much cheaper. The versatility of 357 and 44 is really attractive, especially since both are available in lever and bolt action rifles, using the smaller sister rounds for practice but unless one can find a steady source and is willing to pay to feed them it may not be the best option today. I haven't looked into 454 but it sounds like it too has a high feeding price.
As for a safe, it comes down to discipline. Everything goes in and it gets locked before leaving the house and it immediately gets unlocked when returning home. For a single firearm a safe is probably not warranted or maybe just a small hand gun safe if that is the route taken. I'm a southerner so I have no clue about the requirements of the west coast but it would be a shame to have to purchase a safe for a single firearm. Growing up, everyone had a glass fronted locking cabinet in their living room full of their guns. Everyone also had gun racks in their trucks, even at school as many came from the woods straight to school. Oh the old pouring scent on someone gag, those were the days.
Don't underestimate the value of a BB gun. Not for self defense but as a tool for teaching gun safety. I got my first one at 5 and had my butt light up a time or two for improper muzzle management. Shooting pine trees was a lot of fun and I was responsible for keeping my rifle clean and obtaining my own BBs. I had a little rack on the wall and I saved my pennies to buy the little Daisy tubes. It was a great foundation for moving up.
I think going out with some responsible friends and handling a few different calibers is a great start. Honing in on just one firearm isn't the easiest thing to do. Some love shotguns and others hate them. If you want all of your family involved, which you should, then you may need to look into a youth 20 gauge over a 12. Nothing wrong with a turkey gun if it's what you like and what you're proficient with. My wife loved our youth 20 pump action we sold before going full time, one of the only things we regret selling and something we'll probably pick up again as we are settling back down.
Explorer I
Winner winner chicken dinner! You got the reference ;) GREAT movie BTW! Tombstone
Explorer I
Its been crazy expensive for a long time; probably always. Its also quite abusive out of a pistol or rifle - but .45 LC shot out of those heavy frames is quite tame.
This is a locale thing - my utopian state has stiff penalties and vaguely written laws that make anything other than "safe storage" onerous.
Traveler III
In the People's Republik of Kanadastan, we have some of the stupidest, most vaguely written, most pointlessly draconian gun laws around, but "safe storage" obviously doesn't apply to firearms that are "in use" and "in use" can mean many things, including sitting around the camp fire yarning and being on lookout for Grizz.
When I'm out bush, my shotgun is in use as my defense against dangerous varmints, so it can be loaded and ready to rock.
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My thoughts on carrying a weapon on your adventures:
When travelling with a firearm you need to do your research on gun laws for where you are travelling like where your concealed permit may have reciprocity if you are using one. Some states require that you notify a law enforcement officer that you are carrying when you are stopped, others do not. Having a firearm with you may restrict you from entering some places such as dams and other federal places. Travelling across an international border will take a lot of paperwork in advance and will limit your choice of weapon. Keeping a firearm locked away in your vehicle when you are not used to having one can make it easy to 'forget' it's there, and you accidently take it where you should not.
Many places you can carry a handgun 'open carry' in a visible holster without a permit, but doing so can and will get you some negative attention from others, either general public, or even members of your own group that you are travelling with. Guns in plain sight just make some people nervous. If you have a permit and carry concealed, make sure it stays that way as exposing a concealed firearm (unless you need to protect yourself) can get you cited. be discrete when moving your weapon from concealed to storage in your vehicle. It takes a lot of practice and time to comfortably and safely carry a firearm on your person, you need to make sure you are comfortable and consistent with the carry, draw and use from whichever holster you choose before running around with it loaded so you do not put a round in your foot or somewhere else it should not be. As many other have mentioned here - TRAINING and PRACTICE are key
If you select a long gun for your vehicle there are locking, quick access mounts are available to secure it in your rig, many are set up for particular vehicles and can keep the weapon out of site and secure, just make sure the ammo is removed and stored somewhere else while traveling. Also it won't do you much good if your in the roof top tent and the gun is locked in the rig...
We carry concealed most often as the gun is always where we need it and under our control, If we are out and about in a high bear or cougar area we may open carry during that time to reduce the access time (also carry bear spray). We do have a secure lock box in the rig to secure our weapons when we go into a building where guns are not allowed, and stash them there any time we decide to have adult beverages, if we do not deem the campsite safe enough from 2 or 4 legged threats to not have a firearm, then it's not safe enough to be drinking anyway... If its a 2 legged issue them we should not be there anyway.. and time to move. The type of people that cause the most trouble do not seem to get far into the woods from towns or other populated areas, so going a few miles deeper into the backcountry will greatly reduce the chance of an issue.
In all things, situational awareness is key, and far more effective then any gun. If something does not feel right, then listen to your hebe-jebes and go somewhere else. Do not get in a habit of carrying a weapon change that, it's just another tool to keep you prepared and you should be trained and practiced in its use. I had a firearms instructor tell me that every bullet has a tiny lawyer attached to it, so think about where its going and what is beyond your target before dispatching it.
When travelling with a firearm you need to do your research on gun laws for where you are travelling like where your concealed permit may have reciprocity if you are using one. Some states require that you notify a law enforcement officer that you are carrying when you are stopped, others do not. Having a firearm with you may restrict you from entering some places such as dams and other federal places. Travelling across an international border will take a lot of paperwork in advance and will limit your choice of weapon. Keeping a firearm locked away in your vehicle when you are not used to having one can make it easy to 'forget' it's there, and you accidently take it where you should not.
Many places you can carry a handgun 'open carry' in a visible holster without a permit, but doing so can and will get you some negative attention from others, either general public, or even members of your own group that you are travelling with. Guns in plain sight just make some people nervous. If you have a permit and carry concealed, make sure it stays that way as exposing a concealed firearm (unless you need to protect yourself) can get you cited. be discrete when moving your weapon from concealed to storage in your vehicle. It takes a lot of practice and time to comfortably and safely carry a firearm on your person, you need to make sure you are comfortable and consistent with the carry, draw and use from whichever holster you choose before running around with it loaded so you do not put a round in your foot or somewhere else it should not be. As many other have mentioned here - TRAINING and PRACTICE are key
If you select a long gun for your vehicle there are locking, quick access mounts are available to secure it in your rig, many are set up for particular vehicles and can keep the weapon out of site and secure, just make sure the ammo is removed and stored somewhere else while traveling. Also it won't do you much good if your in the roof top tent and the gun is locked in the rig...
We carry concealed most often as the gun is always where we need it and under our control, If we are out and about in a high bear or cougar area we may open carry during that time to reduce the access time (also carry bear spray). We do have a secure lock box in the rig to secure our weapons when we go into a building where guns are not allowed, and stash them there any time we decide to have adult beverages, if we do not deem the campsite safe enough from 2 or 4 legged threats to not have a firearm, then it's not safe enough to be drinking anyway... If its a 2 legged issue them we should not be there anyway.. and time to move. The type of people that cause the most trouble do not seem to get far into the woods from towns or other populated areas, so going a few miles deeper into the backcountry will greatly reduce the chance of an issue.
In all things, situational awareness is key, and far more effective then any gun. If something does not feel right, then listen to your hebe-jebes and go somewhere else. Do not get in a habit of carrying a weapon change that, it's just another tool to keep you prepared and you should be trained and practiced in its use. I had a firearms instructor tell me that every bullet has a tiny lawyer attached to it, so think about where its going and what is beyond your target before dispatching it.
Explorer I
OP of the message that caused this recent flurry of posting mentioned the presence of kids and for me that changes everything. When there are no kids around I adopt the same attitude that you mention - when kids are around things are a little more locked down because I want to relax too and a slip-up could have devastating consequences.
I'm sorry, the layer and level of laws/codes/ordinances is one of the major contributors of why we lack responsibility today. When we made our last big loop out west we skipped all the states on the coast due to the ridiculous rules regarding firearms and no reciprocity. We really like WA down through Northern CA and missed several things during our first run that we would have loved to do. We had to drive through the bottom tip of Illinois which had me a tad on edge even though it was just a bridge to bridge in and out route. Now that we are bouncing around between short term rentals in TN we can really see the difference from FL (which is not as a free as everyone thinks). I just can't believe how much things have changed from when I was a kid. Hell, shooting pests for people was a great side hustle. Imagine the horror people would experience if they saw a 12 year old bicycling down the highway with a 22 today.
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Explorer I
Be very careful with open carry in WA; especially W WA. "Alarm" is vague and hard to quantify and I am sure that if I open carried in my area there would be all kinds of "alarm"!
RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm—Unlawful carrying or handling—Penalty—Exceptions.
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
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That's why we only open carry in the wilderness, and it's usually a SS 357 revolver which for some reason does not seem as scary to public as any black gun...lol If I walked out into my yard open carry there would be a flood of 911 calls, most people already cross the street to walk by ... driveway full of apocalyptic vehicles and none of them battery powered
Traveler III
True, I am almost always solo. With kids it's a bit different for sure.
Traveler III
Very good chance that this law is totally unconstitutional and would be struck down promptly if ever tried in court against a normal citizen, but nobody wants to be the test case.
Traveler III
You reminded me of my dad. He bought his first rifle, a Mossberg 152 semi auto .22, when he was 13 from Eaton's department store. He just walked right in and bought it, then walked out again and nobody batted an eye. He had a ton of fun and adventures with that thing sniping gophers for the local ranchers.
I inherited it from him until, like all my guns, it was lost in a tragic boating accident ;)
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That's an unfortunate accident, mine were sucked into a sinkhole that suddenly appeared under my safe....lol I remember being able to go to the hardware store and by a brick of 22 shells and have quite a bit of change from a $20. Used to spend all day plinking targets and coming home with thumbs sore and black from all the lead rubbed of the shells while loading magazines...
I remember a case of an arrest in the neighboring town, around 2006...I worked for the gub-ment at the time building enterprise systems. The hubbub from all the wach-a-moles in the office was the amount of ammo the individual being arrested had. I asked a colleague what was being reported and it was something like "over 2,000 rounds". I started laughing and laughing, had difficulty stopping. I asked for the article everyone was all up in arms about so I could read it. Sure, the individual was in possession of a firearm their license possibly didn't cover but the rest of the story was not much different than the supposed journalism of today. I pointed out that if the individual had 2,000 rounds of the matching caliber to the firearm in question that would have been clearly stated. Since it was just a generic comment regarding the amount of ammo one cannot assume it was specific to the questionable firearm. In the list there were several 22s so I asked if anyone had ever bought 22 ammo. Of course they hadn't, I then said I have more than 2,000 rounds of 22 because I bought it by the thousand. They had no clue and were running around like headless chickens as though they did. What bothered me the most was that we all worked directly with both the Public Affairs and Executive Offices, for an elected official, so it was common to discuss how the Agency was spinning or diluting statements to purposely mislead the public. What they couldn't come to terms with was that all of the Agencies and Departments did the same, law enforcement was no exception (we had several sworn departments in our agency). I don't wonder how the things of today came to be.
best tool for out and about protection is a .38 revolver with wad cutters...
an auto loader can jam, especially if the person is nervous and doesnt pull the slide back all the way and jams the round and a scared person might forget about the safety lever. an auto loader also ejects the casings which will have firing pin marks to identify the gun as well as finger prints on the casing
recovered jacketed rounds will have rifiling marks that are distinct to the weapon's barrel that fired it. a wad cutter will distort so badly that it more than likely will not yield any info.
there are people doing time for legitimately defending themselves. sometimes "the system" can be just as dangerous as the criminals, so that also needs to be factored in.
everyone is always prepping for the shot, but rarely ever thinks about after the shot...
an auto loader can jam, especially if the person is nervous and doesnt pull the slide back all the way and jams the round and a scared person might forget about the safety lever. an auto loader also ejects the casings which will have firing pin marks to identify the gun as well as finger prints on the casing
recovered jacketed rounds will have rifiling marks that are distinct to the weapon's barrel that fired it. a wad cutter will distort so badly that it more than likely will not yield any info.
there are people doing time for legitimately defending themselves. sometimes "the system" can be just as dangerous as the criminals, so that also needs to be factored in.
everyone is always prepping for the shot, but rarely ever thinks about after the shot...
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