Legal Weapons and Overlanding

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CR-Venturer

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My dog is young, (Lab) and a cream puff. At this time I’ve accepted that it is her job to warn me, and my job to do what’s needed.
That seems very sensible. My problem is that she thinks it's her job to do what's needed, even when it's an animal way tougher and more dangerous lol it's probably just as well, since my wife likes to have the dog home when I'm away.
 
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Ghost

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That seems very sensible. My problem is that she thinks it's her job to do what's needed, even when it's an animal way tougher and more dangerous lol it's probably just as well, since my wife likes to have the dog home when I'm away.
We had a malamute that my step dad brought down from Canada in the 70’s that thought he was a bad ass. Kinda was in that it killed everything in sight and would not die. Jumped out of the back of the truck at 50mph to fight, got shot and left for dead in the ditch by the neighbor after he dug his way out of yard to chases his sheep, and when he was older I backed over him with the car. He lived through all of that along with repeated fights with raccoon, porcupine, skunk, and dogs. I think the day that one eye beast was finally put down was probably one of my mother’s happiest days. She still had a scar on her hand where he bit through her hand while she was breaking up an attack on her best friends dog.
 
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Salty4Life

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I’ll dive into carry insurance.
Firstly, there is a difference between insurance, and pre paid legal services. I won’t endorse one company over another, but I like the pre paid model better.

Legal insurance: there are many companies that’s offer it, and there may be subtle differences but I’ll go into the big points. If you need to use the insurance, you will need to find and hire a lawyer yourself. Your will then need to pay for everything until the conclusion of the case. If you are convicted, insurance covers nothing, because they cannot pay for illegal activity. If you are acquitted, the will reimburse you the expense you took on.
The first problem with this model is, what if you can’t afford a good lawyer and all the court fees up front. You’re basically SOL. Another issue arises when it may be in you best interest to take a plea deal for whatever reason. If you plea guilty to even a minor misdemeanor, you will not be covered.

Pre paid legal services: These companies change you a monthly fee, like insurance companies. They usually have a network of attorneys that they use. Depending on the charge, the offer a flat fee to represent you. The benefit to this model is that there are attorneys in your state versed in self defense law. They are also paid up front by the company, not out of your pocket. You also have the option to plea down to a lower charge if you and your attorneys decide that is your best action. The downside is that you may have you use in-network attorneys. You MIGHT not be able to choose your own lawyer.

There are a bunch of other pros and cons that apply to individual companies, but I’ll leave that to you to do your own research and make the best decision for you and yours.
 
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Roam_CO85

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I’ll dive into carry insurance.
Firstly, there is a difference between insurance, and pre paid legal services. I won’t endorse one company over another, but I like the pre paid model better.

Legal insurance: there are many companies that’s offer it, and there may be subtle differences but I’ll go into the big points. If you need to use the insurance, you will need to find and hire a lawyer yourself. Your will then need to pay for everything until the conclusion of the case. If you are convicted, insurance covers nothing, because they cannot pay for illegal activity. If you are acquitted, the will reimburse you the expense you took on.
The first problem with this model is, what if you can’t afford a good lawyer and all the court fees up front. You’re basically SOL. Another issue arises when it may be in you best interest to take a plea deal for whatever reason. If you plea guilty to even a minor misdemeanor, you will not be covered.

Pre paid legal services: These companies change you a monthly fee, like insurance companies. They usually have a network of attorneys that they use. Depending on the charge, the offer a flat fee to represent you. The benefit to this model is that there are attorneys in your state versed in self defense law. They are also paid up front by the company, not out of your pocket. You also have the option to plea down to a lower charge if you and your attorneys decide that is your best action. The downside is that you may have you use in-network attorneys. You MIGHT not be able to choose your own lawyer.

There are a bunch of other pros and cons that apply to individual companies, but I’ll leave that to you to do your own research and make the best decision for you and yours.
I use us law shield.. out of all the companys I looked into that was the one that was recommended the highest.
 
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Lanlubber

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We had a malamute that my step dad brought down from Canada in the 70’s that thought he was a bad ass. Kinda was in that it killed everything in sight and would not die. Jumped out of the back of the truck at 50mph to fight, got shot and left for dead in the ditch by the neighbor after he dug his way out of yard to chases his sheep, and when he was older I backed over him with the car. He lived through all of that along with repeated fights with raccoon, porcupine, skunk, and dogs. I think the day that one eye beast was finally put down was probably one of my mother’s happiest days. She still had a scar on her hand where he bit through her hand while she was breaking up an attack on her best friends dog.
Horror story, what a bad ass dog.
 
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Lanlubber

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I’ll dive into carry insurance.
Firstly, there is a difference between insurance, and pre paid legal services. I won’t endorse one company over another, but I like the pre paid model better.

Legal insurance: there are many companies that’s offer it, and there may be subtle differences but I’ll go into the big points. If you need to use the insurance, you will need to find and hire a lawyer yourself. Your will then need to pay for everything until the conclusion of the case. If you are convicted, insurance covers nothing, because they cannot pay for illegal activity. If you are acquitted, the will reimburse you the expense you took on.
The first problem with this model is, what if you can’t afford a good lawyer and all the court fees up front. You’re basically SOL. Another issue arises when it may be in you best interest to take a plea deal for whatever reason. If you plea guilty to even a minor misdemeanor, you will not be covered.

Pre paid legal services: These companies change you a monthly fee, like insurance companies. They usually have a network of attorneys that they use. Depending on the charge, the offer a flat fee to represent you. The benefit to this model is that there are attorneys in your state versed in self defense law. They are also paid up front by the company, not out of your pocket. You also have the option to plea down to a lower charge if you and your attorneys decide that is your best action. The downside is that you may have you use in-network attorneys. You MIGHT not be able to choose your own lawyer.

There are a bunch of other pros and cons that apply to individual companies, but I’ll leave that to you to do your own research and make the best decision for you and yours.
I would hope that these things would be the worst scenario. Definitely something to think about if you have time.
 

Ghost

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Horror story, what a bad ass dog.
He loved to play and to us kids was a teddy bear. BUT when it came to other animals a complete dick. One night chewed his way through chicken wire into their run, and got into the hen house. Then the little chicken door must have closed behind him. No escape. By morning he had killed 25 hens. Blood bath. Another time we left him in the fenced yard while we went shopping and he dug out and killed 15 of our turkey. Used to dig up rabbit burrows and eat the babies whole. I wish I had a smart phone back when we used to burn our fields. He would chase down and eat the field mice as they ran from the fire. Imagine the sun setting on a field of fire, with a dog on fire, chasing mice on fire.
 

Lanlubber

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He loved to play and to us kids was a teddy bear. BUT when it came to other animals a complete dick. One night chewed his way through chicken wire into their run, and got into the hen house. Then the little chicken door must have closed behind him. No escape. By morning he had killed 25 hens. Blood bath. Another time we left him in the fenced yard while we went shopping and he dug out and killed 15 of our turkey. Used to dig up rabbit burrows and eat the babies whole. I wish I had a smart phone back when we used to burn our fields. He would chase down and eat the field mice as they ran from the fire. Imagine the sun setting on a field of fire, with a dog on fire, chasing mice on fire.
That's the saddest dog story I have ever heard. I'm afraid if it had been my dog I may have shot him myself.
 
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Ghost

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That's the saddest dog story I have ever heard. I'm afraid if it had been my dog I may have shot him myself.
That was discussed regularly but it never happened. To this day my parents front yard is fenced better than most military installations in an attempt to keep that dog in vs. people out.
 
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Jim SoG

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Not sure how anyone not from America can understand how we Americans fell about our God given rights, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Fact is and no dispute can truly be made with evidence, America was founded on biblical principles and a strong set of rights for the average citizen to never ever have to go thru what our founding fathers did to overthrow a dictator and get basic freedoms, thus the 2nd Amendment. I do not care how any other Country does it, did it, or is doing it, I care about America and our right to keep our guns. PERIOD.
Guns do not kill people. Gun laws do zero to keep people safe or prevent deaths (ask Chicago on any weekend), fact is, there is not a law you can come up with that would eliminate deaths, ask London about them considering banning knives now, why? knife attacks are skyrocketing, see guns (knives) do not kill, people kill and all the laws you can think of, just hurt the law abiding citizens because (stand by for news flash) CRIMINALS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW!!!

So I say we need to relax the laws, train our kids and citizens, help our police in all areas (come forward and speak up), keep an eye out and actually meet your neighbors.... Take a gun class, already trained? Great keep taking refreshers and go to the range a lot! Carry a gun or use a gun, you better be highly trained, KNOW what your doing or might have to do. Nobody needs untrained yahoos.

Lastly, this is a great thread and many different points of views, some weird ones I do not agree with and some I do, but we are not name calling, we are posting smart refined posts and that is good. By the way this was America in the 40/50's: Gun Clubs at School | National Review.

Jim
 

Salty4Life

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Not sure how anyone not from America can understand how we Americans fell about our God given rights, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Fact is and no dispute can truly be made with evidence, America was founded on biblical principles and a strong set of rights for the average citizen to never ever have to go thru what our founding fathers did to overthrow a dictator and get basic freedoms, thus the 2nd Amendment. I do not care how any other Country does it, did it, or is doing it, I care about America and our right to keep our guns. PERIOD.
Guns do not kill people. Gun laws do zero to keep people safe or prevent deaths (ask Chicago on any weekend), fact is, there is not a law you can come up with that would eliminate deaths, ask London about them considering banning knives now, why? knife attacks are skyrocketing, see guns (knives) do not kill, people kill and all the laws you can think of, just hurt the law abiding citizens because (stand by for news flash) CRIMINALS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW!!!

So I say we need to relax the laws, train our kids and citizens, help our police in all areas (come forward and speak up), keep an eye out and actually meet your neighbors.... Take a gun class, already trained? Great keep taking refreshers and go to the range a lot! Carry a gun or use a gun, you better be highly trained, KNOW what your doing or might have to do. Nobody needs untrained yahoos.

Lastly, this is a great thread and many different points of views, some weird ones I do not agree with and some I do, but we are not name calling, we are posting smart refined posts and that is good. By the way this was America in the 40/50's: Gun Clubs at School | National Review.

Jim
The only thing I disagree with is when you said “the average citizens should never have to go through what our founders did”. If you read Jefferson’s writings, he thought government would grow at a rate that every 20 years or so, we would need another revolution. Our founders where so bad ass, that when government wanted to put a tax on whiskey, it was time for an armed rebellion. Pass a bad law, revolt! Raise taxes, revolt! Jefferson thought every generation would have it’s our revolution.
 
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grubworm

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The 2nd amendment was ratified in 1791 in order to give citizens a way to protect themselves from a corrupt/tyrannical GOVERNMENT. Back then, the founders saw a corrupt government to be more of a threat than individual citizens. I always wonder just how insightful they were...

I don't see how defending one's self is a "right"...just like breathing isn't a "right", its just something we do naturally....but, going with the OP, I guess ANY weapon is good to carry overlanding. Gut shoot just about anyone with a .22 and I bet they leave you alone. Yeah, people drugged out would be a different story, but I can't see any crack or meth heads out in the boonies, they'll be in the city where their dealers are. Very few people are willing to take a bullet even from a small caliber pistol.
 
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CR-Venturer

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He loved to play and to us kids was a teddy bear. BUT when it came to other animals a complete dick. One night chewed his way through chicken wire into their run, and got into the hen house. Then the little chicken door must have closed behind him. No escape. By morning he had killed 25 hens. Blood bath. Another time we left him in the fenced yard while we went shopping and he dug out and killed 15 of our turkey. Used to dig up rabbit burrows and eat the babies whole. I wish I had a smart phone back when we used to burn our fields. He would chase down and eat the field mice as they ran from the fire. Imagine the sun setting on a field of fire, with a dog on fire, chasing mice on fire.
It probably says something really bad about me, but I lol'd for real at this visual.
 
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CR-Venturer

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Not sure how anyone not from America can understand how we Americans fell about our God given rights, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Fact is and no dispute can truly be made with evidence, America was founded on biblical principles and a strong set of rights for the average citizen to never ever have to go thru what our founding fathers did to overthrow a dictator and get basic freedoms, thus the 2nd Amendment. I do not care how any other Country does it, did it, or is doing it, I care about America and our right to keep our guns. PERIOD.
Guns do not kill people. Gun laws do zero to keep people safe or prevent deaths (ask Chicago on any weekend), fact is, there is not a law you can come up with that would eliminate deaths, ask London about them considering banning knives now, why? knife attacks are skyrocketing, see guns (knives) do not kill, people kill and all the laws you can think of, just hurt the law abiding citizens because (stand by for news flash) CRIMINALS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW!!!

So I say we need to relax the laws, train our kids and citizens, help our police in all areas (come forward and speak up), keep an eye out and actually meet your neighbors.... Take a gun class, already trained? Great keep taking refreshers and go to the range a lot! Carry a gun or use a gun, you better be highly trained, KNOW what your doing or might have to do. Nobody needs untrained yahoos.

Lastly, this is a great thread and many different points of views, some weird ones I do not agree with and some I do, but we are not name calling, we are posting smart refined posts and that is good. By the way this was America in the 40/50's: Gun Clubs at School | National Review.

Jim
Well, I may not be an American, but I completely understand and support the US Bill of Rights, including enthusiastic endorsement of the 2nd Amendment. Even Liberal leaning Canada affirms the right to life and security of the person, but what Canada miserably fails to understand is that if you infringe the right to access the tools necessary to effectively exercise a right, you have rendered that right void and meaningless. It would be like claiming to support the right to free speech while simultaneously outlawing every possible means to convey that speech, ie. Radio, tv, newpapers, telephones etc. It's utter hypocrisy and foolishness, and yet this is exactly what my country has been doing for decades.

If I had a claim on US citizenship, I would have moved there long ago.
 
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Ghost

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The 2nd amendment was ratified in 1791 in order to give citizens a way to protect themselves from a corrupt/tyrannical GOVERNMENT. Back then, the founders saw a corrupt government to be more of a threat than individual citizens. I always wonder just how insightful they were...

I don't see how defending one's self is a "right"...just like breathing isn't a "right", its just something we do naturally....but, going with the OP, I guess ANY weapon is good to carry overlanding. Gut shoot just about anyone with a .22 and I bet they leave you alone. Yeah, people drugged out would be a different story, but I can't see any crack or meth heads out in the boonies, they'll be in the city where their dealers are. Very few people are willing to take a bullet even from a small caliber pistol.
Around here meth is made in the sticks hours from the City. It is is normal to find vans & motor homes parked in the middle of nowhere used and then abandoned or burned. An epidemic to the point LE can’t keep up with the shell game of back county mobile meth labs.
 

Salty4Life

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The 2nd amendment was ratified in 1791 in order to give citizens a way to protect themselves from a corrupt/tyrannical GOVERNMENT. Back then, the founders saw a corrupt government to be more of a threat than individual citizens. I always wonder just how insightful they were...

I don't see how defending one's self is a "right"...just like breathing isn't a "right", its just something we do naturally....but, going with the OP, I guess ANY weapon is good to carry overlanding. Gut shoot just about anyone with a .22 and I bet they leave you alone. Yeah, people drugged out would be a different story, but I can't see any crack or meth heads out in the boonies, they'll be in the city where their dealers are. Very few people are willing to take a bullet even from a small caliber pistol.
Until you run across a winnebago / meth lab on the trail doing it breaking bad style.
I’m not saying a .22 won’t get it done, but I am saying a gut shot won’t, even if it’s a .45. Aim for the dome, or high center chest and shoot until his down and no longer a threat.
 
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Ghost

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Until you run across a winnebago / meth lab on the trail doing it breaking bad style.
I’m not saying a .22 won’t get it done, but I am saying a gut shot won’t, even if it’s a .45. Aim for the dome, or high center chest and shoot until his down and no longer a threat.
I’ve yet to meet anyone that would want to be shot with a .22:) Next time I pass through that shady part of the county I’ll snap some pictures. The real breaking bad Winnebago (looked just like it) got burned a few months ago. Two of them within about 15 minutes. (Cause undetermined). I saw a New winnie last weekend along with a windowless rape van on a dirt road that leads out to some good trail. Definitely a road you roll dirty on:)
 
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Lanlubber

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Not sure how anyone not from America can understand how we Americans fell about our God given rights, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Fact is and no dispute can truly be made with evidence, America was founded on biblical principles and a strong set of rights for the average citizen to never ever have to go thru what our founding fathers did to overthrow a dictator and get basic freedoms, thus the 2nd Amendment. I do not care how any other Country does it, did it, or is doing it, I care about America and our right to keep our guns. PERIOD.
Guns do not kill people. Gun laws do zero to keep people safe or prevent deaths (ask Chicago on any weekend), fact is, there is not a law you can come up with that would eliminate deaths, ask London about them considering banning knives now, why? knife attacks are skyrocketing, see guns (knives) do not kill, people kill and all the laws you can think of, just hurt the law abiding citizens because (stand by for news flash) CRIMINALS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW!!!

So I say we need to relax the laws, train our kids and citizens, help our police in all areas (come forward and speak up), keep an eye out and actually meet your neighbors.... Take a gun class, already trained? Great keep taking refreshers and go to the range a lot! Carry a gun or use a gun, you better be highly trained, KNOW what your doing or might have to do. Nobody needs untrained yahoos.

Lastly, this is a great thread and many different points of views, some weird ones I do not agree with and some I do, but we are not name calling, we are posting smart refined posts and that is good. By the way this was America in the 40/50's: Gun Clubs at School | National Review.

Jim
In then50's and 60's the company I worked for had a firing range for employees. We had a rifle team. WE use to go to the high schools in our area and competitively shoot against the ROTC rifle team. Those kids were good. WE never lost a match to them but some were very close. Guess what city that was ?
It was the recently notorious city of El Paso Texas.

As a kid of 12 I lived in California. We were very poor and didn't own a car at the time. I hitched rides from out in the boonies too Sacramento Ca. for the sole purpose of buying my first 22 rifle. I was alone, I walked into a JC Penny store and bought my first rifle and 2 boxes of ammo for $12. I hitch my way back home, 65 miles, carried my gun in my hands all the way openly, shot two rabbits on the way for supper that night. I had a great life, never killed, threatened, or harmed a soul in my entire life with a gun. What happened to those good days ? The Liberal gun hating crowd took them from me, you, your kids and their kids. There has not been a gun law passed in any state that has ever saved a life. The problem with law makers is that they don't know anything about the laws they pass, Obama care another good example, Oh just pass it and then you can read it. Oh what idiots we do have, and again I say unto you, you cant fix stupid !
Lanlubber Jim