Legal Weapons and Overlanding

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darjo242

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If you guys want to hear something really crazy, get this: I'm a nearly 12 year law enforcement veteran who carries a pistol and 51 rounds of ammo on a daily basis, and I'm not permitted to carry off duty because Canada.

When I'm in the boonies, I almost always have a non restricted firearm with me, though, typically a 12 gauge pump shotgun.
That is just seriously ridiculous.
 
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Roam_CO85

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My father was not a violent man, I asked him as a child what I should do to when I am attacked by someone with the intent to harm me. He quickly said "son you run till you find a bigger stick than his, then you turn and beat the hell out of them with it" !
My father was the same way. He was a product of a Doctor and a Nurse... both were surgeons and surgeons aid in ww2... non violent never harm anyone. My mother was the exact opposite. Her farther was ww2 army infantry. He taught her her to defend her self and dont get walked. What was right and what was wrong. Growing up my father told me at a young age ( got in trouble at school for fighting.. kid was picking on a girl and shoved her.. so i stepped in and shoved him and broke his nose after her windmilled at me teacher didnt see that..she saw me throw the punch). Father told me never to start a fight. If someone starts it you do all that you can to finish it and win it. Fast forward to high school. Some jock kids were shoving this kid with Down syndrome around a circle. Crying couldn’t get way i stepped in to get the kid away from these DBs and got into a hand throwing party. Got my tail handed to me but the kid was able to get away.. the whole lost the battle but won the war speech felt easier said than it felt. My father saying that to me at an early age made a big impact on me. Coming from a guy that was raised to see no evil.
 
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Lanlubber

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My father was the same way. He was a product of a Doctor and a Nurse... both were surgeons and surgeons aid in ww2... non violent never harm anyone. My mother was the exact opposite. Her farther was ww2 army infantry. He taught her her to defend her self and dont get walked. What was right and what was wrong. Growing up my father told me at a young age ( got in trouble at school for fighting.. kid was picking on a girl and shoved her.. so i stepped in and shoved him and broke his nose after her windmilled at me teacher didnt see that..she saw me throw the punch). Father told me never to start a fight. If someone starts it you do all that you can to finish it and win it. Fast forward to high school. Some jock kids were shoving this kid with Down syndrome around a circle. Crying couldn’t get way i stepped in to get the kid away from these DBs and got into a hand throwing party. Got my tail handed to me but the kid was able to get away.. the whole lost the battle but won the war speech felt easier said than it felt. My father saying that to me at an early age made a big impact on me. Coming from a guy that was raised to see no evil.
Slightly off topic but I think it's pertinent in a round about way.
I have to admit, it was my mother who gave me the spit to stand up for myself and others who couldn't. Got my butt whooped once when this bully punched me in the throat but my friend Nathen was unharmed. Four years later in Jr High school the bully jumped me again, I politely whooped his ass and we ended up friends. I earned his respect the only way he understood. Poor guy ended up being the town drunk.
 

Roam_CO85

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Slightly off topic but I think it's pertinent in a round about way.
I have to admit, it was my mother who gave me the spit to stand up for myself and others who couldn't. Got my butt whooped once when this bully punched me in the throat but my friend Nathen was unharmed. Four years later in Jr High school the bully jumped me again, I politely whooped his ass and we ended up friends. I earned his respect the only way he understood. Poor guy ended up being the town drunk.
Yeah i think it’s pertinent.. my mother was the same way. She grew up with 4 brothers and is the toughest person I know but the 4’11 small lady that she was. She always said walk softly and carry a big stick!

You have to fight violence with violence. Like @Ghost said help is minutes more where he lives away when help needs to be seconds away. My county sheriff called legal armed citizens force multipliers. Ive been in back county situations where having a 357 on my hip has made a few guys rethink their ill attempts Overlanding in open spaces. Open spaces public land alot of people go there to do bad things. Urban areas/ wildland areas can be just the same. Bad people pray on good people. Just have to be vigilant
 

trikebubble

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If you guys want to hear something really crazy, get this: I'm a nearly 12 year law enforcement veteran who carries a pistol and 51 rounds of ammo on a daily basis, and I'm not permitted to carry off duty because Canada.

When I'm in the boonies, I almost always have a non restricted firearm with me, though, typically a 12 gauge pump shotgun.
It would be nice to have the option up here to carry a Safe Queen when backpacking. I've tried to locate the shortest , most compact non-res shotgun I can for sticking in my backpack when hiking, but it's still heavier and more cumbersome than a handgun of course. It is what it is, I try to remember this when considering my vote, and where to place my spare dollars for any given association. I do find it ironic that as a byproduct of being a licensed gun owner her in Canada I am proven to be more "law abiding" than possibly those who are not. Anyways, don't want to get into anything too deep and I think that sometimes the preferred firearm for me in the backcountry is the short shotgun... it just would be nice to have that option to choose sometimes.
 
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Lanlubber

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It would be nice to have the option up here to carry a Safe Queen when backpacking. I've tried to locate the shortest , most compact non-res shotgun I can for sticking in my backpack when hiking, but it's still heavier and more cumbersome than a handgun of course. It is what it is, I try to remember this when considering my vote, and where to place my spare dollars for any given association. I do find it ironic that as a byproduct of being a licensed gun owner her in Canada I am proven to be more "law abiding" than possibly those who are not. Anyways, don't want to get into anything too deep and I think that sometimes the preferred firearm for me in the backcountry is the short shotgun... it just would be nice to have that option to choose sometimes.
I hear that, amen !
 

Roam_CO85

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Its pretty bad when non law abiding citizens have more rights than a law abiding citizen. Have a family memeber that works in a county jail. Its more or less a revolving door. Criminals know they only get a slap on the wrist released back into the world to commit another crime..or the same.... its like the folks that say guns are bad but just use less than lethal..like shooting an animal with rock salt or bear spray it just irritated them and creates more of a problem. Bear spray can come back on you just the same..@salty4life said if best awhile back in this thread. Leave less than lethal to those who are trained todo it. I would not put my life up on the line with pepper spray.. pulling iron is the last line of defense..but its there and know that being judged by 12 is better than being carried by six...... speaking of that. Thinking of legal weapons. Do any of you guys that carry use carry insurance? I have for about a year now.
 
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Lanlubber

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Its pretty bad when non law abiding citizens have more rights than a law abiding citizen. Have a family memeber that works in a county jail. Its more or less a revolving door. Criminals know they only get a slap on the wrist released back into the world to commit another crime..or the same.... its like the folks that say guns are bad but just use less than lethal..like shooting an animal with rock salt or bear spray it just irritated them and creates more of a problem. Bear spray can come back on you just the same..@salty4life said if best awhile back in this thread. Leave less than lethal to those who are trained todo it. I would not put my life up on the line with pepper spray.. pulling iron is the last line of defense..but its there and know that being judged by 12 is better than being carried by six...... speaking of that. Thinking of legal weapons. Do any of you guys that carry use carry insurance? I have for about a year now.
Do any of you guys that carry use carry insurance?
YES, AN EXTRA FULL 15 ROUND CLIP. :sunglasses:
 

Lanlubber

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Haha yeah a extra mag is always way to fly. One is none two is one!!! Talking about legal insurance. Like car insurance but for that round that does have to leave its chamber
:
Good question, no I have never considered doing that and for good reason. First, if my state allows me to carry either concealed or open, then I don't see any liability on my part if I use the weapon legally. Second, If I use the weapon illegally then I pay the price with time in prison, or my own life. (cant get blood out of turnup). I can see a person wanting insurance if they are stacked with money or assets in this world of sue happy people. There is always the chance a weapon could harm an innocent bystander and I personally don't know what could be done about that situation. I think it kind of falls in line with people trying to sue the seller or the manufacture of a weapon. They have no liability as to what the weapon does to someone. Yeah, a very good question to ponder. I think the answer could be summarized by the word "intent" !
 

CR-Venturer

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It would be nice to have the option up here to carry a Safe Queen when backpacking. I've tried to locate the shortest , most compact non-res shotgun I can for sticking in my backpack when hiking, but it's still heavier and more cumbersome than a handgun of course. It is what it is, I try to remember this when considering my vote, and where to place my spare dollars for any given association. I do find it ironic that as a byproduct of being a licensed gun owner her in Canada I am proven to be more "law abiding" than possibly those who are not. Anyways, don't want to get into anything too deep and I think that sometimes the preferred firearm for me in the backcountry is the short shotgun... it just would be nice to have that option to choose sometimes.
I definitely agree, and actually there are many strong arguments why a heavy caliber handgun is a better choice in practical terms than a shotgun or other long gun, but at least there are some extremely compact non-res options available in Canada for a decent price. Canadaammo.com has some nice turkish made guns with 13" barrels in 12 ga.

At least when you're packing 12 gauge, you can be confident that it will put down even a large grizz provided you get the shot placement right, whereas you have to go pretty huge in handgun calibers to achieve the same level of confidence.

Personally, I think it makes sense to carry both bear spray and a firearm.
 

Ghost

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Its pretty bad when non law abiding citizens have more rights than a law abiding citizen. Have a family memeber that works in a county jail. Its more or less a revolving door. Criminals know they only get a slap on the wrist released back into the world to commit another crime..or the same.... its like the folks that say guns are bad but just use less than lethal..like shooting an animal with rock salt or bear spray it just irritated them and creates more of a problem. Bear spray can come back on you just the same..@salty4life said if best awhile back in this thread. Leave less than lethal to those who are trained todo it. I would not put my life up on the line with pepper spray.. pulling iron is the last line of defense..but its there and know that being judged by 12 is better than being carried by six...... speaking of that. Thinking of legal weapons. Do any of you guys that carry use carry insurance? I have for about a year now.
I’ve been looking into it. Several instructors have stated that even if you are 100% justified in defending yourself you will be sued. It would suck to win the fight only to have your family end up homeless.
 

Roam_CO85

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Yeah its mainly for the sue happy individuals that whole ( oh so and so was shot for trying to rob at gun point). Well your waving a gun at someone whats the price to pay? Huges and tickles and dont so that again... so a long time ago. This is an example. A guy broke into a garage of a family that was a week and a half out on a vacation. Crook got stuck in garage for a week and a half. Lived off dog food and pepsi for a week and a half. Tell they got home and found this dude in their garage. He sued them for not having a decent way out of the garage... there are reasons why police officers wear cameras now.. i watch alot of badge can video reviews. Its just another way of backing your self up legally. If your not justified yeah you gotta pay the price... if you are its gonna take alot to prove it. Carry Insurance is legal fee insurance Also bystanders getting into the mix thats a zero call in my book. First rule of fire arm safety knowing whats between you and your target and behind your target. If a bystander got injured from a incident id pay the price 100% cus thats negligence in my book
 
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Roam_CO85

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I’ve been looking into it. Several instructors have stated that even if you are 100% justified in defending yourself you will be sued. It would suck to win the fight only to have your family end up homeless.
Was told by an instructor once. Everytime you pull your weapon just imagine your house being ripped away from you..your childrens life changing your, wifes life changing, life behind bars. Its a risk you take Every time you pull up. Even if you do have to neutralize a target their family is gonna come after you. Someone some where will try and sue. Even a scumbag that cant afford a lawyer there are guys that chase ambulances and try and prove you weren’t justified. Shoot people even sue over bear spray or wasp spray! Your daughter blinded me by wasp spray...well ol son you shouldnt of tried to rape her. Thats all she had to protect her self.. a cheese ball lawyer sees a huge case and takes it.
 
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CR-Venturer

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Frivolous and utterly baseless lawsuits seem to be a major problem in the US. Not exactly sure why, but I presume that for some reason or other, judges are failing to throw out absurd lawsuits like that. In Canada, it seems to be far less of a problem.

One good thing in Canada is that as an LEO, unless I'm found to have gone totally outside my training and policy or to be acting in bad faith, I'm indemnified by the government and I can't be sued for my actions on duty.
 

trikebubble

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I definitely agree, and actually there are many strong arguments why a heavy caliber handgun is a better choice in practical terms than a shotgun or other long gun, but at least there are some extremely compact non-res options available in Canada for a decent price. Canadaammo.com has some nice turkish made guns with 13" barrels in 12 ga.

At least when you're packing 12 gauge, you can be confident that it will put down even a large grizz provided you get the shot placement right, whereas you have to go pretty huge in handgun calibers to achieve the same level of confidence.

Personally, I think it makes sense to carry both bear spray and a firearm.

I carry bear spray, an air horn, bear bangers, and the short shotgun where I can. I do have one of those short Turkish ETro ATA 8's. It hasa 16" barrel and a pistol grip. Fits in my Gunslinger backpack very well. I also have a Dominion Arms 12" barrel 12 gauge, with a full stock though. It's overall longer, and mainly stays in the truck or camper, but sure is fun to bring out and kill pumpkins with.
 

CR-Venturer

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I've considered taking my dog, but she's long on guts and short on brains. Recently, she ran out the house and scrapped with a raccoon because she thought she needed to protect us. Well, she whooped the raccon and sent it running up a tree, but I had a $550 vet bill dealing with her wounds afterwards. I worry she'd go off half cocked after a bear, and she wouldn't win the fight like she did against the raccoon.

As the saying goes, fools rush in where angels fear to tread, and she's a certified fool all right lol
 

Ghost

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I've considered taking my dog, but she's long on guts and short on brains. Recently, she ran out the house and scrapped with a raccoon because she thought she needed to protect us. Well, she whooped the raccon and sent it running up a tree, but I had a $550 vet bill dealing with her wounds afterwards. I worry she'd go off half cocked after a bear, and she wouldn't win the fight like she did against the raccoon.

As the saying goes, fools rush in where angels fear to tread, and she's a certified fool all right lol
My dog is young, (Lab) and a cream puff. At this time I’ve accepted that it is her job to warn me, and my job to do what’s needed.
 
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