Influencer I
That is a good truck gun! Thats what i have too. For a short barrel the 62 gr tac loads its pretty unstoppable
Legal Weapons and Overlanding
- Thread starter NorthStar96
- Start date
Explorer I
I'm an old Dead Head. For years I traveled with the Grateful Dead before cell phones and gps. I never really got lost, I never needed to make a call and I never needed a gun. If you know anything about the lot scene in the 1990's it could be sketchy. Even during this time I never felt unsafe or afraid. I was everywhere from ATL to NYC to Denver and SF and every where in between. In 30 years of travel I never once felt the need to be armed. I do hunt. I do sometimes carry. I have been in some odd situations but never scared. Please share some stories in which you felt scared and were glad you had a weapon. For me I have found that keeping an open mind, a good sense of humor, seeing the good in people and not taking things so seriously have kept me safer than a weapon.
Influencer I
I have to say ive never felt scared of anything. I dont get spooked by much ether. I don’t carry because I am scared that I am gonna need it. I carry because I can and to preserve life. Ether it be mine or someone that needs help...I dont carry just a weapon. I also carry medical equipment as well. With my life experiences medical has been a major factor. Ive been at a stop light before and a guy coming up grabbing my arm because of the window was down putting a knife in my face saying wallet or else and just reaching down and setting my edc on the conceal of the pickup was enough to make him run off. Another incident when I was trucking in the oilfield. Was fixing a strap on a load of pipe. Had a black car pull up behind me guy got out. Branished a handgun and said give me the keys to the truck.. the gun was in the truck. I had my load bar ( crowbar) in my hand. He grabbed my arm and said did you hear me. When he grabbed me I swung that load bar with my off hand and it landed across his jaw.knocking him out. Kicked the weapon under the trailer. i never off body carried from that day on. Went and found a great inside the waste holster Police came. Searched the guy the weapon was unloaded and didnt even have a mag in it. But a witness across the road saw the scuffle. I drove a semi for 5 years. Now work in the firearms industry. Before trucking i was a back country hunting guide and packer. Before that was a firefighter medic for 8 years.
Pathfinder I
Here in NM the police get suspicious if you tell them you don't have a gun in the truck. It's one of the most firearm friendly states. We can legally keep a loaded handgun/rifle/shotgun in the vehicle either concealed or open without a permit. I'm not a hunter but I've always kept a gun of some type handy just in case. It's like a spare tire. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. That being said, I'm nearly 57 years old, have traveled the USA extensively as a truck driver and have never needed it. I've never even been in a fist fight. People aren't nearly as bad as some think I've found.
Influencer I
Sorry to post twice on this. Was gonna edit the first one but figured just ad to it. Got to thinking on more of this.
So why do you only carry part of the time? And when you carry do you carry on a empty chamber? I am not saying sometime isnt bad.. i ment to say all do respect a couple posts ago. Its ones choice. I just figured id ask about your thought process?
So a little bit of a back story. At a young age I got in trouble at school for fighting...a boy was picking on a girl and slugged her in the face and I tackled him before he could do it again and got punched in the process and hit him back. Well teacher saw me hit him and i was the one who got in trouble. That evening my dad told me that i am not in trouble but if someone starts a fight finish it and do everything you can to win! But never start a fight. Fast forward to high school. Some punk kids were beating up a kid with downs and he was crying trying to get away. But they kept at it. I stepped in long enough for the kid to get away. Dads words came in to my mind. I didnt do well. But the kid got away. To me that was more important even if I got my rear handed to me. Fast forward again to after high school I became a firefighter. Every time Ive been asked why do I do it. I see that kid being bullied. Because I was there to help. I stopped my fire career because I came across a situation where a bunch of kids couldnt be helped and their mom survived. It bugged me so bad that I had to go and do other things for a while. But that will to help. That willingness go to hell in back to help that person or people survive. Is the mindset of why I carry.. to have that tool or tools to not rely on a police officer or medic to be there when you need them. It take seconds for things to happen and minutes for the right people to get there. Its a force multiplier.
Not that it scares me that i am not armed or scared that bad things might happen. I dont lose sleep at night thinking about what ifs. I carry and train for self reliance.
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Explorer I
I understand...I’m a teacher and I have seen this play out again and again. I think it is important to understand each other and where our POV come from...As a public servant I understand loosing sleep over the job and feeling helpless to help others. Just the other day one of my student killed himself and I haven’t stopped asking what did I miss, what could I have done different...all I can do is think to myself just love your fellow man even more and keep pressing on...what’s the alternative?...
Thanks . Even out of a 16" barrel the Tac loads work great. When I was in Iraq, the SF guys would always ask if we could give them excess ammo. They claim one shot kills vs two or three shots with FMJ rounds.
Influencer I
I think one could spend a life time trying to figure out,.. what if i did this or that could of made this difference. But you have to do exactly that press on and love your fellow man. Try and catch the next person that needs that guidance. There are alot of me first type people out there. The you first type people are the rare breed. That shows where you think of what could ive done. A teacher is one of the biggest heros and role models a kid can have. Its hard and it never gets easier. There are alot of people that over look a teacher as a hero. Growing up I hated school but those teachers that went the extra mile. i still remember them to this day..this day its hard and probably harder because of how parents are bring up their kids....I dont have kids. So i cant touch on that.. the stuff kids are getting away with now... I would of not been able to sit for a week if it was me and my mother. The media and just times a changin.. but you get them first alot of times! As a teacher you have a biggest impact on them. How long have you been a teacher? I have some friends that have been one for a while and it really is laying the bricks to the future.
Influencer I
There are alot of folks that say 5.56 round isnt good for self defense because it takes a few or more rounds to do the job...... a 55 grain bullet can go throw a empty soda can with out moving it! Its so fast it passes right through. I run 77 gr. Otn black hills threw my 7.5 inch barrel. It does way better with the 11.5 ballisticly. but its done great work over seas down range. I shoot that 62 tac out of my 16 inch barreled ar Ive shot prairie dogs with that 55 gr. Fmj and it doesnt do anything but smoke right throw them at 200 yrds. A coyote at 700 yards with a 77 gr. Otm 5.56 blew a shoulder off the yote. Bone and everything. That 62 gr. Fed Tac round can do work! Ive seen ballistic cavities from them. With the way ballistics are these days the heaviest you can go accurately is golden. I just built an ar pistol with a 12.5 inch barrel. At fifty yard with iron sights with the 62 federal tac loads i shot 1/2 inch group. Barrel is a 1 in 7 twist crazy impressed with it!
Pathfinder III
I would generally advise people to stay away from barrels shorter than 10 inches. Both terminal performance and reliability can be finicky. When you go shorter than 10 inches it requires a pistol length gas system. When the system is that short, it causes the gun to cycle very hard, essentially beating itself to death. The violent extraction can also cause the rim of cases to be ripped off leaving a stuck case. I have never seen a. 7 inch gun make it past 5-6k rounds without major parts breakage.
5.56/223 needs to hit at a minimum of 2200fps to adequately fragment or tumble. When fired from a 20” barrel, you should expect 3000-3200 FPS that gives you about 200-250 yards unit the bullet drops below 2000 FPS. With a 7 inch barrel the muzzle velocity is about 2100-2300 FPS. This data is all assuming full power 55 gr bullets. Heavier bullets yield slower muzzle velocities. Certainly projectiles such as OTM, JSP, and copper solids can proform well at slower velocities, but there are too many variables to test so YMMV
5.56/223 needs to hit at a minimum of 2200fps to adequately fragment or tumble. When fired from a 20” barrel, you should expect 3000-3200 FPS that gives you about 200-250 yards unit the bullet drops below 2000 FPS. With a 7 inch barrel the muzzle velocity is about 2100-2300 FPS. This data is all assuming full power 55 gr bullets. Heavier bullets yield slower muzzle velocities. Certainly projectiles such as OTM, JSP, and copper solids can proform well at slower velocities, but there are too many variables to test so YMMV
Influencer I
I have heard that a barrel shorter than 10” is not a very good mix for 5.56. I bought mine before I really researched the length of an AR pistol pro and cons. I bought it and threw a law tactial folder on it for concealing it. Here in colorado. We can have a loaded pistol concealed or open with out a permit in a vehicle but not a rifle. Falls under game and fish poaching laws. When I bought it i had a hard time getting it to run and came across a round that hornady sells that works with the FBI to work in their SBRs its a 75 grain interlock in their black edition. Only thing that would work through it reliable wise The otm black hills ran great through it. Have actually ordered a 8.5 300blk barrel for it that set up. I dont think id ever go shorter than 11.5 inches for the 5.56. Because of ballistics. 10.5 does pretty good but that happy medium is that 11.5 on a sbr pistol. The 12.5 is pretty stellar. The black out They say that needs a 9 inch barrel to work to standards. I dont know to much about the blackout but ive seen it do work on hogs down in texas and Oklahoma. The 5.56 223 has been around for so long and that blackout doesnt have the history or track record.. id love to hear your input on that..
Pathfinder III
general guidelines are
5.56 10.3 inch minimum with 11.5 being optimal
300 blackout 9 inch minimum with diminishing returns going over 9 inches.
Don’t bother with 300 blackout unless your running a can.
5.56 10.3 inch minimum with 11.5 being optimal
300 blackout 9 inch minimum with diminishing returns going over 9 inches.
Don’t bother with 300 blackout unless your running a can.
I assume Rock River knew what they were doing when they made their pistol.
I've been meaning to buy some of the Hornady Black (SBR) for my 11.5 as I have heard good things.
Influencer I
It did really well out of my 10.5 inch and 7.5 inch. Its kinda hard to find. If you do find some buy it up. Pretty clean burning powder. Saw some testing done with it on gel and it had some pretty wicked results out of 11.5. Ive been shooting that federal 62 gr fusion out my 12.5 and its been pretty snazzy!
Advocate I
I don't know enough about ballistics to even feign a conversation, much less a dispute. I will, however, state my opinion on the 300.
I find it intriguing and have a number of friends that use it. It's unlikely I ever will, as that's one more caliber to maintain. Here is where my concerned opinion comes in; If I did go with the 300, I would have my mini 14 re-barreled. That way there is no possibility of mixing up magazines for the ar and having it go bang once and wish it hadn't. Now, back to topic of this original thread. I've enjoyed reading through the last couple years of comments. It has been informative. I'm hoping to get into some camping and less of the day after day after day routine. I've wondered about this topic as I've watched many of the overlanding videos on the tube of you. Those that are armed no doubt don't talk about it on camera or their videos would get banned. lol
Influencer I
The 300 in my mind doesnt have the track record as the 5.56/223. With all the ballistics guys that geek out on ballistics saying. Ballistically its a new round. You can suppress it and you can go under that ten inch barrel with it.. so it conceals pretty nicely with a folder. Have a friend that says its a really nice range toy but if it came to that L or D id grab that 5.56 every time. I know what it does ballistically and its something I can rely on..I don't know enough about ballistics to even feign a conversation, much less a dispute. I will, however, state my opinion on the 300.
Now, back to topic of this original thread. I've enjoyed reading through the last couple years of comments. It has been informative. I'm hoping to get into some camping and less of the day after day after day routine. I've wondered about this topic as I've watched many of the overlanding videos on the tube of you. Those that are armed no doubt don't talk about it on camera or their videos would get banned. lol
back when law enforcement got the 5.56 at least in this area. They were loading it up with frangible and bullets that would come apart on impact so it wouldn’t worry to much about over penetration. Well the round got a bad rap for being a poodle shooter.. so they were like 308 or bust but found that a better bullet in the 223/5.56 preformed way better. Its like the fbi saying 9mm is ok for duty use again because of how much that round has improved over the years. 40/45 still is a good round but you can put more rounds down range with the 9mm accurately. That 300 blackout is probably going to have its place in time. I bought the barrel to see what it would be like.. yeah that 30 cal round sounds nice. Like salt4life stated. Its a suppressed round. Really what its good for. Loaded right the 223/5.56 is pretty hard to beat!
Pathfinder III
I’ll dive into.300 blk a bit deeper. Most of the time people want to compare it to 5.56. It seems lodgical to do so because they are both commonly used in ARs. A better comparison would be .300 blk vs 9mm.
.300 blk ARs were designed to address the shortcomings of the MP5 and other sub guns. With a major part of the fighting in Iraq taking place inside of buildings, sub guns have certain advantages over carbines. However, during infil or exfil, engagements can take place well beyond the effective range of pistol rounds.
What .300 blk offers is the ability to use an AR platform with an overall length similar to an MP5, and have a more effective range than 9mm or 5.56 out of a super short barrel ie <10 inches.
Now add on the 220 grain .300 whisper loadings and the user has a super quite gun with similar muzzle energy to a .45acp, and with no more than a mag change, can switch to super sonic rounds for more range and lethality.
So in short, if you find yourself fighting in confined spaces and also need to be quite about it, while also having to traverse open terrain to get to the objective, .300 starts to make a lot of sense.
If all you need is something more than.556 with out stepping up to .308 and do not need subsonic rounds or SBRs, 7.62x39 has nearly identical external ballistics and is much cheaper to shoot. If you have to have an AR, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC both have better ballistics than.300 blk. If you just want to shoot quietly, 45 ACP offer the same muzzle energy while staying subsonic is also much cheaper to shoot.
And if you just have to have a .300 blk because, reasons, then just get one and have fun.
.300 blk ARs were designed to address the shortcomings of the MP5 and other sub guns. With a major part of the fighting in Iraq taking place inside of buildings, sub guns have certain advantages over carbines. However, during infil or exfil, engagements can take place well beyond the effective range of pistol rounds.
What .300 blk offers is the ability to use an AR platform with an overall length similar to an MP5, and have a more effective range than 9mm or 5.56 out of a super short barrel ie <10 inches.
Now add on the 220 grain .300 whisper loadings and the user has a super quite gun with similar muzzle energy to a .45acp, and with no more than a mag change, can switch to super sonic rounds for more range and lethality.
So in short, if you find yourself fighting in confined spaces and also need to be quite about it, while also having to traverse open terrain to get to the objective, .300 starts to make a lot of sense.
If all you need is something more than.556 with out stepping up to .308 and do not need subsonic rounds or SBRs, 7.62x39 has nearly identical external ballistics and is much cheaper to shoot. If you have to have an AR, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC both have better ballistics than.300 blk. If you just want to shoot quietly, 45 ACP offer the same muzzle energy while staying subsonic is also much cheaper to shoot.
And if you just have to have a .300 blk because, reasons, then just get one and have fun.
I will sum up this thread by saying I love guns. [emoji23]
As far as input, I always have my xdm 40 with me. It is my EDC gun. When traveling more than an hour from home I always grab my AR and ammo bag with 6 mags. Pretty standard 556 rifle. I want to get a keltec ksg for a couple reasons. I traveled to New York last year and the only thing I could legally have with me was a pump action shotgun. Not my usual first choice however the KSG offers a lot of versatility regarding the platform, capacity, accessories, and the option to load 2 different loads and switch between them. I think it would make a perfect camp gun loaded with some slugs as well as buck shot. It is legal in every state that I have been in, still investigating the rest.
As far as transport, my AR rides unloaded, but right next to my mags, in a box I made for the back of our yukon. Accessible from the rear hatch or from inside the cab. This box is also where I keep my medical kit, tools, go bag, and some other stuff. It is carpeted to match the interior which makes it harder to see from the window.
I am looking at options for my new truck. I like the idea of having it mounted where the visors are. They make shelves. I would use the back seat but with 2 car seats and a booster, under/behind the seat is pretty much useless Unfortunately.
As far as input, I always have my xdm 40 with me. It is my EDC gun. When traveling more than an hour from home I always grab my AR and ammo bag with 6 mags. Pretty standard 556 rifle. I want to get a keltec ksg for a couple reasons. I traveled to New York last year and the only thing I could legally have with me was a pump action shotgun. Not my usual first choice however the KSG offers a lot of versatility regarding the platform, capacity, accessories, and the option to load 2 different loads and switch between them. I think it would make a perfect camp gun loaded with some slugs as well as buck shot. It is legal in every state that I have been in, still investigating the rest.
As far as transport, my AR rides unloaded, but right next to my mags, in a box I made for the back of our yukon. Accessible from the rear hatch or from inside the cab. This box is also where I keep my medical kit, tools, go bag, and some other stuff. It is carpeted to match the interior which makes it harder to see from the window.
I am looking at options for my new truck. I like the idea of having it mounted where the visors are. They make shelves. I would use the back seat but with 2 car seats and a booster, under/behind the seat is pretty much useless Unfortunately.
Fancy new pistol this fancy new design that, Xdm pistols are still widely regarded as best “out of the box, stock trigger” (In striker fire) on the market. Much like the good ol model 700
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