Member III
Just saw this on YouTube. It puts it into perspective on what to consider to keep the weight down for overlanding.
Here is a great vid on why to keep the weight down.
- Thread starter great08
- Start date
I think he has some good points about heavy crawling armor vs lighter OL stuff. I also don't think it had much, if anything to do with his jeep dying. He explained fairly well that the former owner likely put it through hell first. Good stuff to think about though. I've added more than 500lbs to my Jeep with just bumpers, larger spare tire, roof rack, tent and rock sliders/steps. So I need to be mindful of my capacity.
Member III
I totally agree about the whole prior owner putting it through the ringer thing.
The main things that go through my mind when I think about this subject are... For every pound of weight you add to a vehicle...
1. Is another pound of traction you will need to get through/over and obstacle.
2. Is another pound of stress in the drive train.
3. Is another pound of weight the suspension is going to have to soak up on every bump.
For longevity purposes this will over time increase wear. That being said my truck has almost twice the payload of a Wrangle. However, I am still going to keep putting effort towards not carrying things that I don't need.... and keep the armor as light as possible. My bumpers will only get replaced when they get ripped off. If I have been doing it for many years before that happens... then I will put the stock bumpers back on.
The main things that go through my mind when I think about this subject are... For every pound of weight you add to a vehicle...
1. Is another pound of traction you will need to get through/over and obstacle.
2. Is another pound of stress in the drive train.
3. Is another pound of weight the suspension is going to have to soak up on every bump.
For longevity purposes this will over time increase wear. That being said my truck has almost twice the payload of a Wrangle. However, I am still going to keep putting effort towards not carrying things that I don't need.... and keep the armor as light as possible. My bumpers will only get replaced when they get ripped off. If I have been doing it for many years before that happens... then I will put the stock bumpers back on.
Just building my 4runner and I must agree that weight must be kept in check. I am puzzled to look at many rigs which I assume are way above GVWR. I did a bit of math and it doesn't take much to exceed the 4runner GVWR. Am I overly concern? What do you folks think?
It is too bad that the 4 door jeep wranglers have such limited payload. My LR4 has pretty good payload but when fully loaded up I am up to GVWR. I have more armor than I need though, and have considered removing the transfer case and gas tank skids. Most of what I do in the midwest where I live is super tame and im not bashing rocks anyway. I do strongly value my ARB bumper and rear steel bumper. I take the rear tire and jerry swings off my bumper when im not on a trip, mostly to make using the tailgate easier. The bumpers are critical for animal strikes (I've hit a few deer already on this thing) and also good insurance for minor traffic issues.
I encourage people to keep an eye out for those truck stop CAT scales. You can weigh your vehicles on them, you don't have to be a big rig.
2013 Land Rover LR4 -- Curb weight 5,655 lbs -- GVWR 7,200 lbs. (it's basically a 3/4 ton truck, the air suspension makes it work pretty well, keeps things level and at the correct ride height)
Fully loaded, all gear, full fuel, all armor, kids, water, etc... Im just pushing GVWR! That water, a full fridge and ll this crap really adds up! Plus the kids aren't getting any smaller.
I encourage people to keep an eye out for those truck stop CAT scales. You can weigh your vehicles on them, you don't have to be a big rig.
2013 Land Rover LR4 -- Curb weight 5,655 lbs -- GVWR 7,200 lbs. (it's basically a 3/4 ton truck, the air suspension makes it work pretty well, keeps things level and at the correct ride height)
Fully loaded, all gear, full fuel, all armor, kids, water, etc... Im just pushing GVWR! That water, a full fridge and ll this crap really adds up! Plus the kids aren't getting any smaller.
There is an interesting interview with Sportsmoblie where the owner discusses the early years. During that time they installed steel aftermarket bummers on the Quirley 4 wd modified vans. It did not take long for front end suspendsion failures. They determined it was the added weight of the bummers that hammered the suspension. This is where the after makert business called aluminess bummers came to be.
Plasmajab
Rank IV
Off-Road Ranger I
Coming from a background that includes heavy hauling, yes. It is important to never exceed your gvwr, gawr, and gcvwr.
But what is also important is where the weight is. For example if you have 400 pounds on your roof basket, that's going to make for some scary handling on the trails if your vehicle has limits on its suspension articulation.
Heavy down low, light up ya go.
But what is also important is where the weight is. For example if you have 400 pounds on your roof basket, that's going to make for some scary handling on the trails if your vehicle has limits on its suspension articulation.
Heavy down low, light up ya go.
Member III
Um....
1. He didn't build a rock crawler.
2. Whether or not the previous owner abused it, he was at fault too.
3. The extra weight wouldn't have been too much of an issue had he learned how to drive what he had properly.
Foot to floor in mud is really hard on drive line. Bouncing a vehicle like that doesn't make the axle housings very happy either.
I don't consider my Jeep a "rock crawler" and I don't need to mash my foot to the floor uncontrollably in mud. Finesse is more what I use with the occasional mash foot. I enjoined the part where he is foot to floor bouncing sideways.
The build I did would actually hold up to how he drives. let's compare.
1. Heavy bumpers, winch, modified tailgate/spare carrier. Same
2, Full belly skid. Same
3. Bigger axles with chrome moly shafts, gusseting, Air Lockers (he was open diff). Nope.
4. Reworked trans for the torque, 2 external coolers. Nope
5. Stopped there. No reason to go farther.
What he has is a stock Jeep with some bolt on's. Unfortunately people think Jeep=Indestructible.
I have added extra weight to all of my vehicles. I modify what is needed to accept it. One part everyone overlooks is brakes. Your brake system is designed to handle whatever your max weight is. That's assuming you use factory or better brake parts and you don't change the tire size more than 1-2 sizes bigger. We NEVER change tire size....oh ..we do. Heh.
So bottom line, what everyone said above me on watching vehicle weight is true. If you cant keep the weight down, know what your limits are and don't abuse your vehicle and blame something else.
Scott
1. He didn't build a rock crawler.
2. Whether or not the previous owner abused it, he was at fault too.
3. The extra weight wouldn't have been too much of an issue had he learned how to drive what he had properly.
Foot to floor in mud is really hard on drive line. Bouncing a vehicle like that doesn't make the axle housings very happy either.
I don't consider my Jeep a "rock crawler" and I don't need to mash my foot to the floor uncontrollably in mud. Finesse is more what I use with the occasional mash foot. I enjoined the part where he is foot to floor bouncing sideways.
The build I did would actually hold up to how he drives. let's compare.
1. Heavy bumpers, winch, modified tailgate/spare carrier. Same
2, Full belly skid. Same
3. Bigger axles with chrome moly shafts, gusseting, Air Lockers (he was open diff). Nope.
4. Reworked trans for the torque, 2 external coolers. Nope
5. Stopped there. No reason to go farther.
What he has is a stock Jeep with some bolt on's. Unfortunately people think Jeep=Indestructible.
I have added extra weight to all of my vehicles. I modify what is needed to accept it. One part everyone overlooks is brakes. Your brake system is designed to handle whatever your max weight is. That's assuming you use factory or better brake parts and you don't change the tire size more than 1-2 sizes bigger. We NEVER change tire size....oh ..we do. Heh.
So bottom line, what everyone said above me on watching vehicle weight is true. If you cant keep the weight down, know what your limits are and don't abuse your vehicle and blame something else.
Scott
Member III
He makes some good points about watching the weight of your rig. He never really does say what failed on his Jeep or what modifications he actually did to it though.
I like both rock crawling and overlanding and I've planned my build accordingly. I'm adding weight so I bought lift kit pieces designed to carry the added weight of armor and gear. While bigger brakes aren't available for the Xterra, I've added more aggressive pads that increase stopping power and have braided hoses to go on when I change the brake fluid in the spring. The more aggressive compound of these pads will cause more wear on the rotors and higher heat, but I do regular inspections of my rig to stay on top of unusual wear. I also gear down when I need to hold back instead of just riding the brakes, so my brake systems rarely give trouble on my vehicles. I reduce speed and gear down going up steep grades as well instead of keeping the cruise control set to reduce stress on the engine and heat in the transmission from the constant shifting. My next big change will be lower gearing to reduce stress on the driveline.
Another key to vehicle life is general maintenance. Most owners manuals list two maintenance schedules. One "normal use" and one "severe use". The way most of us use our vehicles falls under the "severe use" category and require much more frequent and extensive maintenance than simply a 4k oil change and 12k air filter. The manual for the Xterra states a 30k diff/trans/t-case fluid interval. I don't think that was ever done to my X before I owned it. It also says that the radiator is a wear item with a 120k mile change interval. Spending some time researching your rig on a vehicle specific forum is a good idea. It will give you an idea about the weak spots on your rig and provide information on improving or at least mitigating failure of each spot.
Another thing, keep your rig out of the mud!!!! Those runs through those big puddles just destroy seals and bearings. This includes wheel bearings, u-joints and CVs as well as infiltrating your differentials and driveline.
I like both rock crawling and overlanding and I've planned my build accordingly. I'm adding weight so I bought lift kit pieces designed to carry the added weight of armor and gear. While bigger brakes aren't available for the Xterra, I've added more aggressive pads that increase stopping power and have braided hoses to go on when I change the brake fluid in the spring. The more aggressive compound of these pads will cause more wear on the rotors and higher heat, but I do regular inspections of my rig to stay on top of unusual wear. I also gear down when I need to hold back instead of just riding the brakes, so my brake systems rarely give trouble on my vehicles. I reduce speed and gear down going up steep grades as well instead of keeping the cruise control set to reduce stress on the engine and heat in the transmission from the constant shifting. My next big change will be lower gearing to reduce stress on the driveline.
Another key to vehicle life is general maintenance. Most owners manuals list two maintenance schedules. One "normal use" and one "severe use". The way most of us use our vehicles falls under the "severe use" category and require much more frequent and extensive maintenance than simply a 4k oil change and 12k air filter. The manual for the Xterra states a 30k diff/trans/t-case fluid interval. I don't think that was ever done to my X before I owned it. It also says that the radiator is a wear item with a 120k mile change interval. Spending some time researching your rig on a vehicle specific forum is a good idea. It will give you an idea about the weak spots on your rig and provide information on improving or at least mitigating failure of each spot.
Another thing, keep your rig out of the mud!!!! Those runs through those big puddles just destroy seals and bearings. This includes wheel bearings, u-joints and CVs as well as infiltrating your differentials and driveline.
Pathfinder I
Exactly.
“My Jeep died because it was tooooo heavy
” followed by a half-dozen clips of non-stop mashing the skinny pedal and beating it on the trails. Cue the world’s smallest violin.I looked up the guy’s YouTube page. Lots of videos, but I didn’t see any about driveline build-up. He probably just went on a Quadratec shopping spree for armor/lift and figured he didn’t have to do anything else because it said Rubicon on the hood.
I did find a video from three years ago called “beating up my stock Rubicon” where he just dragged that poor Jeep (literally) over every rock he could find on trails that it was not equipped to handle. Probably a more accurate reason for why his Heep died.
Member III
Good job there. I also run high nickle rotors for better heat resistance. Look into centric (stop tech brand) or equivalent for the rotors. Higher end street not racing.
Absolutely. We have to remember, the manufacture recommended "severe service" is based on heavy traffic/city, hills, towing and higher temps on an unmodified vehicle. These should be used as a minimum guide depending on how you load and drive your rig. If you have say 33's - 35's on a smaller vehicle, you want to change your power steering fluid at least every other year and add a cooler to it if not equipped.
If you want to actually see how your fluids are holding up, go to Blackstone Labs, get an oil test kit, next oil or trans service, take a sample and send it off. When you get it back, you get a complete breakdown of how the fluid is holding up. On a higher mileage vehicle send one out for the oil every year to see how your vehicle is wearing. It will tell you bearing wear, head-gasket, camshaft wear. It gives you ppm bronze, steel and a bunch of things you will have to google.
Member III
Yes it does for sure!
Here are a few more vids I just found on this same subject as well. However, these are more about un-sprung weight and what it can do to your suspension on a long bumpy road.
So things like larger and heavier tires, or the solid axles most of us have in at least the rear, not airing down/slowing down, or the wrong shocks can... basically cause things to fail.... especially on those long stretches of bumpy roads we seek.
This is why I opted for the Z71 package on my Colorado actually... or one of anyways. GM throws in basic Nitrogen shocks on the Z71... as in no heat build up issues(in theory/my experience). The ZR2 is hydraulic, but has a massive surface area for cooling And the crazy valves in it that open to let the fluid flow fast(less friction/heat).
Member III
What he said.
Unsprung weight is everything not held up by the springs (tire, axle,hub, breaks...). As your suspension moves up and down this weight becomes kinetic energy. Your shock (and some spring) control the movement and convert kinetic energy to heat. Most factory suspensions are not designed to handle the heat from any driving past mild dirt. Add bigger tires, heavier rims and drive hard, the energy overcomes the shock/spring. Weak springs, blown shocks, worn bushings, bearing issues are some of the problems that occur. Mod vehicle in any way and you need to match suspension to it. Quality springs and good properly valved gas shocks are a must. That's why most manufacturers offer a better spring/shock on their offroad package.
We haven't touched sprung weight either. There's a whole new can of worms.
Scott
Off-Road Ranger I
With a name like "Berserker," I wonder why his Jeep failed....
Did you see how far he dunked the hood in that pond WITHOUT a snorkel or any intake adaptions......YEEESH. YOLO!
Did you see how far he dunked the hood in that pond WITHOUT a snorkel or any intake adaptions......YEEESH. YOLO!
