GVWR?

[Dilldog]

Now it would seem that most people on here are interested in using their vehicles for relatively safe and reliable recreation. What drives me nuts is the guy behind you coming down the mountain in his 1 ton diesel truck pulling a 10,000 pound camper with a brand new set of $15 brake pads! But anyway, as long as you don't go very far over the gvw your reliability and safety are ok. But your long term reliability will decrease and maintenance will increase with the increase in weight. Sure the rear wheel bearing on my wife's tahoe can probably support 8,000 pounds but not for the long term. The bearing surface is only about 1/2 inch long and a few thousandths wide. The one on my F250 is at least 3/4 inch and on top of that it has 2 bearing per side not one. So it can support the higher weight longer which makes it safer and more reliable. I'd bet most of the people on here will only ever hurt their wallet not other people by being near or slightly over their gvw. One more little thing some may not realize is that when you go over the gvw of your vehicle the manufacturer is not liable or responsible for any damage done to or caused by the vehicle.

Im with you there. We see lot of those types causing crashes coming off of the passes around here. If you are going to run over weight, at the very least have some respect for others and slow down. And if youre coming off the passes, gear down and cruise...

 

[Theoretician]

I spent plenty of time thinking about weight before I chose my F150 with the heavy duty payload package. NMFire actually released some literature regarding vehicle selection for fire suppression, and along with items like ground clearance recommendations they recommended that you keep your vehicle below 85% of its GVWR when traveling off of improved roads. This reduction makes sense when you figure the dynamic and eccentric loads seen off-road, as well as the times spent with your vehicle load going being transmitted to the ground through less than four firmly planted wheels.

I built a spreadsheet to calculate the available payload for most 4x4 options and they were generally in the 200-400lb range at 85% of GVWR. A 4 door wrangler wouldn’t even be able to carry my weight, let alone camping gear, recovery equipment, or other people.

My F150 HD was around 1800lb, I think the Tundra got up to 600lb, then you had the 3/4 ton trucks around 2200lb but 2000lb heavier than the F150.

Yeah, the GVWR could be as much marketing as engineering, but unless you’ve seen the calculations you don’t know what might be limiting the payload. Maybe it’s the internal model segmentation, or maybe it’s the axle bearings. Maybe it’s the springs, or maybe it’s the transmission reliability. For my truck, I had to order the 18in HD wheels (not the tires) or I would lose 250lb of GVWR.

I do lean libertarian in the sense that if you’re not putting other people at obvious risk of harm then “you do you”, but that doesn’t mean that overloading your vehicle isn’t stupid.

 

[Grendel]

You are absolutely right that the only important legal limit is what is on the sticker!

But, to be clear, an insurance company will not deny payout if you are jn an accident while driving over GVWR or GCWR. If such a thing were possible, then they'd never pay anything for any wreck caused by speeding, running red lights, or especially driving drink--those are all much more common risks to your every day driver. What they can--and likely would--do is jack up your rates, or even drop you entirely, after the fact.

HOWEVER, if the accident results in significant injuries, and the injured parties see a way to make you liable, you could find yourself in civil court. There, many factors ranging from assessed speeds to weight limits will likely be analyzed. Driving over GVWR or GCWR could then indeed be a factor thag could allow the judge to assign greater liability to the defendent.

To be real, though. The internet is filled with ghost stories about such cases. However, all the remotely-concrete anecdotes I have found where somebody gets raked over the coals in civil court usually involved multiple factors like speeding, driving an inappropriately-modified vehicle (like a 12" lift on a tow rig), and / or driving well over GCWR.

So, ultimately, it certainly is an extant risk, but probably not any more than many other things we do. For example, lots of us have taller rigs with steel bumpers--we could easily be sued in civil court if a lowered civic plows into the back of us, slides underneath, and is severely injured by the bumper in a way that wouldnt be possible with a stock bumper at stock height. How likely is this? Perhaps not terribly so, and it may not even hold up in court. But, certainly something to think about!

I am curious too. Has any one done any research on the veracity of the insurance claims. Or are most of them internet legend? I am by no means encouraging going over GVWR and if you rear end someone whether or not your overloaded it's probably your fault. I am also not talking about the blatant disregard of a MINI towing a 30ft travel trailer. I'm talking a bout a person with a decently modified overland vehicle getting into an accident and being found at fault/ or partially at fault because of being over weight. I imagine it would be difficult to prove after the accident. So is there any real provable stories of this happening?

 

[Travel About]

I am glad to see that you guys and gals are at least thinking about this. I have ran a truck over weight and I worried about it a lot. A lot of people never give a thought about of being over weight. I have also been in an accident that has left my wife disabled for the last five years. It was not my fault and I am so glad it was not. I don't think I could look at my wife if it had been.I can also say that law suits are not fun, take a long time (like years), and buy the time everyone is paid there is not a lot left. My wife was 47 at the time of our accident with a good job, a nurse in a ER. See has not worked since and is now 52. I also worked in a ER and can say that when things go wrong it usually happens very FAST, like not having anytime to even say oh-shoot let alone do something about it. So my two cents is the numbers matter, the numbers matter, the numbers matter. Don't ever take a chance of an accident being your fault. Some will say that if they are over weight it is none of my business, and I would say, with all due respect, if you are on the road then yes it is. Stay safe.

 

[Dilldog]

I am glad to see that you guys and gals are at least thinking about this. I have ran a truck over weight and I worried about it a lot. A lot of people never give a thought about of being over weight. I have also been in an accident that has left my wife disabled for the last five years. It was not my fault and I am so glad it was not. I don't think I could look at my wife if it had been.I can also say that law suits are not fun, take a long time (like years), and buy the time everyone is paid there is not a lot left. My wife was 47 at the time of our accident with a good job, a nurse in a ER. See has not worked since and is now 52. I also worked in a ER and can say that when things go wrong it usually happens very FAST, like not having anytime to even say oh-shoot let alone do something about it. So my two cents is the numbers matter, the numbers matter, the numbers matter. Don't ever take a chance of an accident being your fault. Some will say that if they are over weight it is none of my business, and I would say, with all due respect, if you are on the road then yes it is. Stay safe.

I agree, but like I have said before, load balance is at least as important. I ran my TJ with about a 1500lbs trailer (well within ratings) but had my load balance behind the trailer axle, this made it quite unstable as it reduced my tongue weight. On the other hand I have run my old 93 Dodge with an 18000lbs trailer ( well over ratings) and it was as solid as can be, because I was running a goose neck and made sure to max out both axles of the pickup by moving the load balance forward. Given the choice, I would rather run that over weight load any day.
But then again experience comes into play big time too. I have wrecked under a load when I didnt fully understand and didnt have much experience. Now I have been able to keep loads straight and avoid accidents in some quite scary situations.
While I dont disagree, I just feel the need to add that you can do everything "right" according to the book and printed guidelines but due to poor skill or lack of experience it will still all go wrong. Like most things in life, when you zero in on one element you are actually more prone to have issues than if you analyze all elements and decide to break a few rules...

 

[The Ocular Engineer]

This is an issue that I have been struggling with as well. (Maybe we need to start an Over Builder's Anonymous group) I didn't buy my truck intended to make it what it has become. With the laundry list of stuff I have added to the F150, I would have got an F250.

I agree with many of the points raised so far (proper load management, load range E tires, suspension, brakes, etc...) and being smart about modifications will help keep you safer. Now, everything I do to the truck is viewed through the lens of GVWR.

 

[MOAK]

Interesting; The 80 series Landcruiser has a combined, GCWR maximum capacity of 10,025 lbs without the towing package. I have upgraded mine to the "towing package" with the help of OME heavy suspension and a 5 ton capacity GI hitch bringing my maximum GCWR up to 11,525, per official Toyota information. Loaded down with all our stuff, and pulling our very light trailer I've scaled it all out at 8,000 lbs. The vehicle itself weighs in at 7,000 lbs with my wife and I in it, which is 165 lbs less than the GVW allowed. At that weight the OME heavies do a very nice job of keeping the vehicle very nimble on the interstates as well as off pavement. The trailer, full of water, extra gas, and all our gear and supplies scales out at 1,000 lbs.

 

[CR-Venturer]

Interesting discussion. All of these factors, combined with the nature of my rig, are reasons why I continually opt for the lightest gear I can reasonably use.

I'm intrigued by the question of tires factoring in to the GVRW. On the one hand, they do affect the braking, however they are unsprung weight, so they do not affect the suspension load. Also, only the weight in excess of the OME tires would be a factor, since the OME tire weight is already factored in and doesn't come into play in terms of the payload calculation.

I should do a guestimate of where my typical loadout would put me. I'm confident I'm well below the GVRW, but it would be a useful exercise I think.

So...I did it. A very, very rough estimate of my typical payload:
me 190
roof rack 15
jerry can 20
skid plate 25
antenna 2
tent 25
food/kitchen bins 30
clothes,sleeping bag 10
canopy 40
misc 10
compressor 10
tools 20
emergency kit 10
recovery kit 30
water 72 (33L of water)
extra fuel 33 (20L of gas)
cooler and food 40
flag 3
shotgun and ammo 12
axe, shovel, saw 10

Total: 597lbs

It sure adds up fast, doesn't it! I may have missed some stuff. Depending on who you ask, the payload of the RD1 is 800lbs or 1000lbs, so I'm still doing all right but definitely something to consider, especially if I take passengers with me. Could easily get overloaded fast.

EDIT: My Curb weight is 3156lbs, GVRW is 4180, so the payload is 1024lbs.

So I have 427 lbs of wiggle room left with my average loadout. Not too bad.

 

[MidOH]

Tires can be a pita. Some tires will be riding on their sidewalls at their rated capacity, even at 10% over inflation.

Fullsize SRW trucks often find tires to be the limit of performance. Keep the truck level with proper springs, keep an eye on your tires bulge.

I wish these stupidly useless TPMS sensors had a tire temp readout like race cars do.

 

[tjZ06]

Tires can be a pita. Some tires will be riding on their sidewalls at their rated capacity, even at 10% over inflation.

Fullsize SRW trucks often find tires to be the limit of performance. Keep the truck level with proper springs, keep an eye on your tires bulge.

I wish these stupidly useless TPMS sensors had a tire temp readout like race cars do.

I have a SRW 3/4 ton and tow a heavy 5'er. I've gone to a F-rated tire so that I'm well within the weight capacity of the rear tires when hitched up. That said, I'm over GVWR, shhhhhhh don't tell. My Overland rig will prob push close to GVWR once I do bumpers, winch, RTT, etc.

BTW, you can buy tire pressure setups that do temp too. I've used them on trailers for years, but you can use them no your actual drive vehicle too.

-TJ

 

[JCWages]

Ronny just did a video about this last month.

 

[tjZ06]

Ronny just did a video about this last month.

Word - I actually watched that the other day. To be honest, weight, complexity, etc. has me re-thinking a RTT and considering a sleeping platform setup IN the WJ. Of course, if I score a great deal on a used RRR ( ;) ) I'll go that route... otherwise I have some ideas how to do a platform inside that'll work great and setup in a minute or so. Then again, if Melissa decides she's into these trips the sleeping platform idea doesn't work as well. In the WJ there's not really room for a 2-person platform, a fridge, and storage for the other camp stuff. The distance from the front seats to the back hatch is hardly tall enough (the load floor, with the back seats folded flat is less than 6'... but if your platform is elevated above where the bottom part of the back seats tumble forward you gain a bit... then I was figuring gaining more by having a flip-out that extends on the passenger side and running the passenger side seat forward).

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway. For the most part I agree with everything in that vid, and hey he's been doing this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than me.

-TJ

 

[Downs]

Tires can be a pita. Some tires will be riding on their sidewalls at their rated capacity, even at 10% over inflation.

Fullsize SRW trucks often find tires to be the limit of performance. Keep the truck level with proper springs, keep an eye on your tires bulge.

I wish these stupidly useless TPMS sensors had a tire temp readout like race cars do.

I put this TPMS system on my 95 XJ last November. Still going strong. I figure at 33 dollars even if it only lasts a year I'll just buy another one and stick it on there and call it good. It gives pressure and temp readouts and you can set it up to alarm at too low and too high pressures. I've checked it against multiple manual gauges and it's been good. You can get the internal sensors too for a bit more money but these screw on sensors have been fine and surprisingly haven't been ripped off yet haha. It's alerted me to damaged tires a few times now from picking up random road debris giving me plenty of time to get to the next highway exit to a parking lot to assess the damage.

As far as GVWR, Just looking at many of the more public overlanding vehicles you see on instagram and Youtube, they LOOK way overweight but without putting them on a scale I can't be for sure. I was watching one video where a Jeep with all the bells and whistles bent a shock on the Mojave Road. That's not a difficult or particularly rough road, I've got to assume that their weight played a part in that damage. But who knows but them.

 

[CR-Venturer]

Word - I actually watched that the other day. To be honest, weight, complexity, etc. has me re-thinking a RTT and considering a sleeping platform setup IN the WJ. Of course, if I score a great deal on a used RRR ( ;) ) I'll go that route... otherwise I have some ideas how to do a platform inside that'll work great and setup in a minute or so. Then again, if Melissa decides she's into these trips the sleeping platform idea doesn't work as well. In the WJ there's not really room for a 2-person platform, a fridge, and storage for the other camp stuff. The distance from the front seats to the back hatch is hardly tall enough (the load floor, with the back seats folded flat is less than 6'... but if your platform is elevated above where the bottom part of the back seats tumble forward you gain a bit... then I was figuring gaining more by having a flip-out that extends on the passenger side and running the passenger side seat forward).

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway. For the most part I agree with everything in that vid, and hey he's been doing this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than me.

-TJ

My biggest issue with sleeping inside the rig is ventilation/bug screens. You need a way to let air circulate, especially in winter, to prevent the inside getting totally damp with condensation, but you also need to keep the skeeters and other creepy crawlies from eating you alive. Notwithstanding that I'm quite happy with my cot tent, I would love to see how people tackle this issue on here.

 

[Dilldog]

My biggest issue with sleeping inside the rig is ventilation/bug screens. You need a way to let air circulate, especially in winter, to prevent the inside getting totally damp with condensation, but you also need to keep the skeeters and other creepy crawlies from eating you alive. Notwithstanding that I'm quite happy with my cot tent, I would love to see how people tackle this issue on here.

Small battery powered fan and cracking windows. At truck stops there are screens you can get that are designed to go into a car/truck window.

 

[UnfrozenCaveman]

I'm a nerd on this...just one more reason I enjoy driving the Aussie Land Rover...the 1,000kg load capacity :)

And just like the F250+ and other 3/4T+ vehicles, the full float axles give me the warm fuzzies.

Perentie 110 General Service (GS) -REMLR

Thanks
U.C.

 

[OverRAM3500]

My biggest issue with sleeping inside the rig is ventilation/bug screens. You need a way to let air circulate, especially in winter, to prevent the inside getting totally damp with condensation, but you also need to keep the skeeters and other creepy crawlies from eating you alive. Notwithstanding that I'm quite happy with my cot tent, I would love to see how people tackle this issue on here.

They make window vents that can be modified by securing screen to the back side.