Big Tuna Presents: Pegasus Rising

[adventure_is_necessary]

Do you have a write-up of the oil cooler install? Hoping to tackle some heat issues before too long on the trig. Might free up some MPG's or just better overall performance. Thanks!

 

[BigTuna117]

For the most part, i'ts pretty straightforward, Complete kits such as Hayden and Mishimoto's offerings include everything you need to get done. If you go to a larger rad with a pusher fan, things get a tad more complicated, however. But, for the basic "Sandwich plate" style kits, it takes some minor disassembly of the front end and and some time to figure out the best places to run lines. The install overall only takes around an hour or two to complete. The cooler is secured in place by nylon locking ties which press through the fins of the A/C radiator, and you snip the excess off.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

For the most part, i'ts pretty straightforward, Complete kits such as Hayden and Mishimoto's offerings include everything you need to get done. If you go to a larger rad with a pusher fan, things get a tad more complicated, however. But, for the basic "Sandwich plate" style kits, it takes some minor disassembly of the front end and and some time to figure out the best places to run lines. The install overall only takes around an hour or two to complete. The cooler is secured in place by nylon locking ties which press through the fins of the A/C radiator, and you snip the excess off.

Did you use a write-up of how to do this? I'm unsure of where the inlet/outlet would be located. Eventually I'll do the trans cooler as well.

 

[BigTuna117]

My Hayden kit came with instructions. As for inlet/outlet on the sandwich plate, you'll understand which way is in and out of the cooler once you get it lined up and tightened down.

 

[BigTuna117]

You remember that time about 4 years ago when I messed with LED headlight bulbs?
I did it again, with better results.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

So, I had the opportunity to run Moss Wash in Kingman with a good friend on Monday 10/1, and boy oh boy, were the discoveries we made on the interesting side. I used the trip as an excuse to shake the dust off of my tablet and use it to navigate, and pull data off of the OBDII port. The overall results of the trip we're nothing short of excellent. This was the first moderate, non-exploratory trail she's been on in about two years. So, two years of mostly untested, fresh refits put to the test. The suspension cycled great, but will be phenomenal once I get extended brake lines and coil retainers bolted up. The new transfer case took the abuse no-sweat.
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And the one that made me nervous of course, engine performance. The 4.7 surged forward with very little issue, finally! Engine temps remained under control, and oil pressure remained higher than previous. The re-worked cooling system kept the Jeep between 190-208 degrees, which is pretty spectacular for crawling up the side of a mountain. On flat and downhill crawling, it would at times dip as low as 180, which is as (absolute) low as you want it to potentially go. I haven't really had a chance to look at other factors until now, either. The reworked intake & snorkel means that air at the manifold is anywhere from 10-20 degrees cooler than stock! Once I insulate the plumbing for the intake, it may drop further, too. I'm very pleased with the performance overall. It's very gratifying to have all that hard work come together like it has.
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And some questions were further dug into....

One thing we noticed is that my 1st gear crawl ratio seems steeper than the later model WJs. We were wondering if maybe this ties into the previous "Factory WJ/WG Hybrid" idea. In 1st, 4-lo, Pegasus will pretty much just crawl over just about anything on it's own. Curiosity continues to grow on this topic.
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First time leading a trail run of any sort, too. Exciting!

I might have some insight on your gearing conundrum. While at OXW 2 weeks ago, I managed to connect with a gentleman who I believed used to work for Jeep as a mechanic. He talked to me about a number of things on the WJ, but in regards to the transmission, he stated there were 2 types of transmissions used in the WJ. He stated one used behind the I6 usually, was a 727 I believe and it had lower 1st and 2nd gears, while the other (I don't recall) had a little shorter gearing in 1st and 2nd. Not sure if you ever figured this out, but as I re-read this thread, I remembered some of what he said.

 

[BigTuna117]

I might have some insight on your gearing conundrum. While at OXW 2 weeks ago, I managed to connect with a gentleman who I believed used to work for Jeep as a mechanic. He talked to me about a number of things on the WJ, but in regards to the transmission, he stated there were 2 types of transmissions used in the WJ. He stated one used behind the I6 usually, was a 727 I believe and it had lower 1st and 2nd gears, while the other (I don't recall) had a little shorter gearing in 1st and 2nd. Not sure if you ever figured this out, but as I re-read this thread, I remembered some of what he said.

The I6 was paired with the 42RE transmission, and the V8 was generally paired with either the 545RF or 545RFE transmission. In the end both of those options in the 545 range were the same mechanically, and only software was the difference. The 545RFE (current on mine) does have a much shorter 1st gear, and has 2 second gears- a "comfort" option. Since both 545 series transmissions have the same mechanical gear set, many with the 545RF were re-flashed in a recall to make use of the "comfort" gearing.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

I re-read your thread to see if there was any further insight on resolving some overheating gremlins that I recently uncovered. As best as I can describe, they were uncovered after running continuously at hwy speeds of 75MPH and then driving in the city briefly. This was while hauling 4 total passengers, 2 dogs, and all the camping gear for 10 days in Flagstaff/Grand Canyon. Operating temp stayed no higher than 210 at the warmest until we hit stop and go in the city or during rush hour. Never encountered it running trail for 3+ hours or driving in the city off the bat. Only while driving for extended periods on the hwy. Any ideas? I've replaced the water pump, serp belt, and flushed coolant recently. IAT never got above 120 if I recall. Any ideas on where to start? It seems like the extended period of time under that sort of load is the only way I can provoke the temp to go beyond about 212. Hit 220's during rush hour and spiked at 230 right after pulling off the highway to a truck stop.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

The I6 was paired with the 42RE transmission, and the V8 was generally paired with either the 545RF or 545RFE transmission. In the end both of those options in the 545 range were the same mechanically, and only software was the difference. The 545RFE (current on mine) does have a much shorter 1st gear, and has 2 second gears- a "comfort" option. Since both 545 series transmissions have the same mechanical gear set, many with the 545RF were re-flashed in a recall to make use of the "comfort" gearing.

I touched on that. He claimed that was the overdrive differentiation. However, now that I recall, he also thought my 4.7 was a 318ci and not the 287ci, so he might have been mis-remembering with the ZJ.

 

[BigTuna117]

I re-read your thread to see if there was any further insight on resolving some overheating gremlins that I recently uncovered. As best as I can describe, they were uncovered after running continuously at hwy speeds of 75MPH and then driving in the city briefly. This was while hauling 4 total passengers, 2 dogs, and all the camping gear for 10 days in Flagstaff/Grand Canyon. Operating temp stayed no higher than 210 at the warmest until we hit stop and go in the city or during rush hour. Never encountered it running trail for 3+ hours or driving in the city off the bat. Only while driving for extended periods on the hwy. Any ideas? I've replaced the water pump, serp belt, and flushed coolant recently. IAT never got above 120 if I recall. Any ideas on where to start? It seems like the extended period of time under that sort of load is the only way I can provoke the temp to go beyond about 212. Hit 220's during rush hour and spiked at 230 right after pulling off the highway to a truck stop.

Hmm, I would check your cooling fan (s) are you hydraulic or clutch? If you have the hydro fan, I'd start by replacing the sensor which activates it. Martin Built on YouTube has a good video on modifying it so that it starts pulling air earlier. If you have the clutch electric combo, there's a couple more things you can actually do. If that's the case, I'd make sure your electric fan controller is good, which is a cheap thing to replace. You can also swap the clutch fan for a Ford explorer 11 blade fan with clutch, which moves more air.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

Hmm, I would check your cooling fan (s) are you hydraulic or clutch? If you have the hydro fan, I'd start by replacing the sensor which activates it. Martin Built on YouTube has a good video on modifying it so that it starts pulling air earlier. If you have the clutch electric combo, there's a couple more things you can actually do. If that's the case, I'd make sure your electric fan controller is good, which is a cheap thing to replace. You can also swap the clutch fan for a Ford explorer 11 blade fan with clutch, which moves more air.

It just seems odd that it old happens after such an extended length of time on hwy. You'd think the forced airflow would help. Why it didn't do it on the trail also baffles me. I'm thinking I will follow your path and add in that Mishimoto thermostat, as well as maybe a new radiator. I'll check the fan. I am almost certain it is a hydro fan. I think that's what the 2004 WJ 4.7 had...but I could be wrong. Time to crawl under and check it out.

 

[BigTuna117]

It just seems odd that it old happens after such an extended length of time on hwy. You'd think the forced airflow would help. Why it didn't do it on the trail also baffles me. I'm thinking I will follow your path and add in that Mishimoto thermostat, as well as maybe a new radiator. I'll check the fan. I am almost certain it is a hydro fan. I think that's what the 2004 WJ 4.7 had...but I could be wrong. Time to crawl under and check it out.

Mine doesn't so much overheat anymore, however my next step is verifying the integrity of the head gaskets. The additional capacity of the rad seems to help a bunch, and even at idle I have a ton of air coming through it. I dunno... I just think it should be more "stable." As in, less fluxuations in temp.
And yes, your 04 should have the hydro fan. When I get home I'll link Martin Builts video on it to this post.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

Mine doesn't so much overheat anymore, however my next step is verifying the integrity of the head gaskets. The additional capacity of the rad seems to help a bunch, and even at idle I have a ton of air coming through it. I dunno... I just think it should be more "stable." As in, less fluxuations in temp.
And yes, your 04 should have the hydro fan. When I get home I'll link Martin Builts video on it to this post.

I checked out that video. Seems feasible aside from the loss in MPG's. I think a new rad and thermostat will be next after an oil change as I'm due for one here. I added a coolant additive that claimed cooler temps among other benefits. I believe you're using an additive as well? It did seem to help initially, however I believe there is another issue entirely. Rolling around town, my digital readout states 201-203 coolant temp. Hydro fan is working. Kicked on around 190 I believe. I'm leaning toward engine oil temps causing breakdown and a lack of proper cooling. Might also be a gummed up rad and thermostat that over time show this issue. It's just odd that it takes hours and hours of running around 2000-2100 RPM for this to happen.

 

[BigTuna117]

I checked out that video. Seems feasible aside from the loss in MPG's. I think a new rad and thermostat will be next after an oil change as I'm due for one here. I added a coolant additive that claimed cooler temps among other benefits. I believe you're using an additive as well? It did seem to help initially, however I believe there is another issue entirely. Rolling around town, my digital readout states 201-203 coolant temp. Hydro fan is working. Kicked on around 190 I believe. I'm leaning toward engine oil temps causing breakdown and a lack of proper cooling. Might also be a gummed up rad and thermostat that over time show this issue. It's just odd that it takes hours and hours of running around 2000-2100 RPM for this to happen.

Currently I am running pure xerex g-05 HOAT. I actually had too much of a fluxuation with the additive I was using previously. I'm still considering adding in a different additive. Here's the video I was referring to.
As far as it goes, I have also put heat shielding around the oil pan so that I don't get as much heat splash on the oil pan from the cats. I can also reccomend an oil cooler of some sort to ANYONE with a WJ. It's just a great extra level of cooling I think.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

Currently I am running pure xerex g-05 HOAT. I actually had too much of a fluxuation with the additive I was using previously. I'm still considering adding in a different additive. Here's the video I was referring to.
As far as it goes, I have also put heat shielding around the oil pan so that I don't get as much heat splash on the oil pan from the cats. I can also reccomend an oil cooler of some sort to ANYONE with a WJ. It's just a great extra level of cooling I think.

My biggest concern with an oil cooler is leaks. Did you use double clamps or something with your cooler set up?

 

[BigTuna117]

My biggest concern with an oil cooler is leaks. Did you use double clamps or something with your cooler set up?

Just used a set of regular hose clamps. I'm in the engine bay enough that it's not a huge issue to check them. They haven't had an issue with loosining, either. If the seem sloppy you could always dab a little blue threadlocker inside of them also.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

Since you and I keep going back and forth on the heat issue with a WJ, what is your take on hood vents/louvers?

 

[BigTuna117]

Since you and I keep going back and forth on the heat issue with a WJ, what is your take on hood vents/louvers?

Well, I think they can be a good way to alleviate excess heat from the engine bay. They can also be useful for injecting cool air into the engine bay without affecting the radiator. It really depends on the application.
I for one always thought that the louvers that came stock on the "Orvis" edition ZJs were very clean looking.

 

[BigTuna117]

Hey everyone, hope y'all are staying cool this summer! I drove the Jeep to Lake Havasu a few weeks ago to find that it in fact was not. Some diagnosis later and a very bunged up Mishimoto Thermostat was extracted. The new OEM one is performing just fine. Mishimoto offers a lifetime warranty on their parts, so once I find the box I'll start the return process with them. I can't say that it really had many major benefits compared to an OEM thermostat, just based on the build compared to a regular one. I'll be doing a video on that later.
In the meantime, I've decided to switch away from Royal Purple as my oil of choice. Although I haven't done any scientific testing, I believe it may be degrading/breaking down faster than the Castrol full synthetic I was using before...
BUT- I'm not doing a direct switch back... Shell ROTELLA has come out with a 5w-30 full synthetic engine oil in their T6 oil line that is rated for Gasoline engines! I am curious about this oil because it is being advertised to two markets in particular- Fleet vehicle use (it is both diesel and gasoline certified), and towards heavy-duty usage scenarios (Particularly OHV, Off-Road Truck) with a promise that the oil takes more/longer to break down in these scenarios. It's a compelling idea, so We'll see how it goes. Shell has also added a Rotella T6 specifically geared towards Gas trucks to their lineup, so it seems they are starting to notice the niche uses where their 15w-40 was getting used in gasoline engines such as the Jeep 4.0l. It's cool to see a company see the ball rolling and take off with it.
In the end, we'll see in 3,000 Mi how this oil held up, and if it has a chance to beat the other stuff I've used.

What do you use?

 

[Tupenny]

I've been using Amsoil for years, in both my touge-tuner and my Jeep. It was recommended by my mechanic friend over all the others