2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Build

[JimBill]

Are the new valve covers composite? I fear my cast covers are likely warped as well, there is minor leaking from the back corners. Not enough to swap the covers and gaskets right now. But I will replace the covers if I ever need to get in there. Luckily (?) the pan gasket was the major offender and it cleared up most of the problem.

 

[tjZ06]

Are the new valve covers composite? I fear my cast covers are likely warped as well, there is minor leaking from the back corners. Not enough to swap the covers and gaskets right now. But I will replace the covers if I ever need to get in there. Luckily (?) the pan gasket was the major offender and it cleared up most of the problem.

Yes, the new ones are composite.

-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

Low center-of-gravity build?




And no, I'm not actually moving the axles that far, I just set the tires there and am too lazy to position them exactly 1" forward/back.

-TJ

 

[MrWilsonWJ]

Low center-of-gravity build?

View attachment 147921
View attachment 147922

And no, I'm not actually moving the axles that far, I just set the tires there and am too lazy to position them exactly 1" forward/back.

-TJ

Personally i think a 35" is perfect for a WJ. What will you be running for lift and how much do you plan to trim from the fenders? Also are you planning for aftermarket bumpers or keep as much of the stock ones as you can?

 

[tjZ06]

Personally i think a 35" is perfect for a WJ. What will you be running for lift and how much do you plan to trim from the fenders? Also are you planning for aftermarket bumpers or keep as much of the stock ones as you can?

Yeah, I think 35"s are going to work out nicely. Currently it's on a 4" Iron Rock Offroad "Rock Link" front long-arm, with the stock rear arms/wishbone just springs/shocks and a wishbone spacer. I will be swapping to a Trail Forged front/rear full long-arm with full belly-skid, and we'll be going for about 6" of lift. It has some other stuff like Kevin's sliders (currently bolted in, will be getting welded in along w/ front/rear frame stiffeners), Kevin's over-the-knuckle steering, bigger rear sway etc. that will be staying. I have a set of JK Rubicon axles that will be getting re-geared to 4.88 (they are a later set from a '17 JKUR that had less than 20k miles on it, but unfortunately they're 3.73s which was the base gear for auto Rubicons in later years, but I got them cheap because of it), sleeved/trussed, and of course setup with WJ brackets... but I'll retain the Rubicon E-lockers. I also have a 242 HD to rebuild and SYE that will go in, along with custom driveshafts to make it all work (just can't order them until the new lift, t-case and axles are in and we measure).

I'm guessing the fenders will be trimmed up very close to the body line above the little dent, the front bumper will get even more trimming, and generally the same idea for the rear but we'll also have to remove basically all the body behind the back-edge of the rear doors. As far as bumpers, in the rear I'm going to go with a Xero Fab Works rear bumper/tire-carrier but I'll be keeping the front bumper with HK hidden winch mount and already extensive trimming. I don't want to add unnecessary weight, but in the rear it's really necessary if I want a good way to carry the matching spare. I could throw the spare inside, but that's obviously not ideal for Overlanding, and I do have a roof rack I'm putting on where it could go, but that's a PITA if you need it an a lot of weight up high.





Here's a professional rendering:


I didn't do a great job with MSPaint, lol. But you can see how following the line of the rear door will dictate how far up to chop the rear fender, so the idea will be to match that in the front. Going 2-2.5" higher with that trimming I hope we don't have to bump-stop it out too much... I want it to flex. Also, having the tires sitting next to the rig, then taking a pic from the middle makes both bumper situations look way worse. This angle gives you a little better view up front, and it's not as bad as it might seem from the "pro rendering." ;)



-TJ

 

[MrWilsonWJ]

Yeah, I think 35"s are going to work out nicely. Currently it's on a 4" Iron Rock Offroad "Rock Link" front long-arm, with the stock rear arms/wishbone just springs/shocks and a wishbone spacer. I will be swapping to a Trail Forged front/rear full long-arm with full belly-skid, and we'll be going for about 6" of lift. It has some other stuff like Kevin's sliders (currently bolted in, will be getting welded in along w/ front/rear frame stiffeners), Kevin's over-the-knuckle steering, bigger rear sway etc. that will be staying. I have a set of JK Rubicon axles that will be getting re-geared to 4.88 (they are a later set from a '17 JKUR that had less than 20k miles on it, but unfortunately they're 3.73s which was the base gear for auto Rubicons in later years, but I got them cheap because of it), sleeved/trussed, and of course setup with WJ brackets... but I'll retain the Rubicon E-lockers. I also have a 242 HD to rebuild and SYE that will go in, along with custom driveshafts to make it all work (just can't order them until the new lift, t-case and axles are in and we measure).

I'm guessing the fenders will be trimmed up very close to the body line above the little dent, the front bumper will get even more trimming, and generally the same idea for the rear but we'll also have to remove basically all the body behind the back-edge of the rear doors. As far as bumpers, in the rear I'm going to go with a Xero Fab Works rear bumper/tire-carrier but I'll be keeping the front bumper with HK hidden winch mount and already extensive trimming. I don't want to add unnecessary weight, but in the rear it's really necessary if I want a good way to carry the matching spare. I could throw the spare inside, but that's obviously not ideal for Overlanding, and I do have a roof rack I'm putting on where it could go, but that's a PITA if you need it an a lot of weight up high.

View attachment 148031



Here's a professional rendering:
View attachment 148032

I didn't do a great job with MSPaint, lol. But you can see how following the line of the rear door will dictate how far up to chop the rear fender, so the idea will be to match that in the front. Going 2-2.5" higher with that trimming I hope we don't have to bump-stop it out too much... I want it to flex.

-TJ

I really like the xerofab rear bumper. I just got the trail forged stubby front and plan to build wings out of tube for it, something that would match the xerofab rear. Excited to see how your build turns out, 6" and 35's is where I want to end up but working on all the other stuff first. And nice score on the rubi axles, I've had my eye out for some but I think that will be a couple years down the road before I pull the trigger on any.

 

[JimBill]

Low center-of-gravity build?

View attachment 147921
View attachment 147922

And no, I'm not actually moving the axles that far, I just set the tires there and am too lazy to position them exactly 1" forward/back.

-TJ

ah, I see you decided to go full Monty! That's gonna be one bad arse vehicle when you are done!

 

[tjZ06]

I really like the xerofab rear bumper. I just got the trail forged stubby front and plan to build wings out of tube for it, something that would match the xerofab rear. Excited to see how your build turns out, 6" and 35's is where I want to end up but working on all the other stuff first. And nice score on the rubi axles, I've had my eye out for some but I think that will be a couple years down the road before I pull the trigger on any.

I think that plan (starting with the TF stubby and adding tubes to 'match' the XeroFab rear) will work out amazingly well. I imagine eventually I'll do something like that up front once I fully destroy the cut-down stock bumper. It's getting harder and harder to find a good deal on JK Rubicon axles. Obviously it's been a few years since JKs were built, so less and less new JK builds are just happening now. JL axles are another 3" wider and have the axle disconnect and different knuckles etc. so they're not as desirable to use. I was happy to score these ones for a reasonable price, especially being from a '17 with less than 20k miles, but I'll need to regear them.

ah, I see you decided to go full Monty! That's gonna be one bad arse vehicle when you are done!

Haha... yeah it's happening. Almost all of the pieces are in place. I've had the 242HD for a while, but the SYE, 6-pinion planetary, new chain and rebuild kit all showed up within the last week. The Trail Forged long-arm has been at Xero Fab Works for a while, and he'll be doing the install along with the frame stiffeners and tank-tuck. I have the axles. I have the tires. I have the PSC ram and Readhead tapped steering box. The biggest missing piece are driveshafts, but we need to get all of it on the Jeep to measure for those.

-TJ

 

[MrWilsonWJ]

How well have the Vari-Lok axles worked for you? I Know true lockers are a way better option, but while at the wrecking yard the other day I found a WJ Overland. The rear axle was already gone but the front was there. I think the wrecking yard sells axle assy. for $125, if I did bearings, seals, and fluid I would be in it around $200. Add a lunchbox locker to the rear and it would be a cheap traction solution while I build out my current axle with and ARB or shopped for an upgrade. Is $200 worth the limited slip in front or are the vari-lok axles not really worth the time and effort? Axles weren't in my immediate plans, but if I can upgrade on the cheap my plans can change...

 

[tjZ06]

How well have the Vari-Lok axles worked for you? I Know true lockers are a way better option, but while at the wrecking yard the other day I found a WJ Overland. The rear axle was already gone but the front was there. I think the wrecking yard sells axle assy. for $125, if I did bearings, seals, and fluid I would be in it around $200. Add a lunchbox locker to the rear and it would be a cheap traction solution while I build out my current axle with and ARB or shopped for an upgrade. Is $200 worth the limited slip in front or are the vari-lok axles not really worth the time and effort? Axles weren't in my immediate plans, but if I can upgrade on the cheap my plans can change...

To be honest, I've been impressed with the Vari-Loks. You can feel a tire start to spin a little, then the other-side bites and it goes. I'm not talking about hardcore rock-crawling or deep mudding, but for "trail use" it's a very good system (far better than what you'd get in any other truck/SUV of the era other than a Wrangler Rubicon. I'll probably have both of my stock axles and t-case for sale soon, but they might be spoken for already. I think your plan of a front Vari-Lok and a lunchbox in the rear for now is a solid one.

-TJ

 

[RecklessCreation]

I've always said that if I come across an overland WJ in a wrecking yard (the few I deal with locally i've already told what I want LOL) I'll steal the fun bits ( the varilok axles, and sliders.. etc) ... my only real beef with the variloks is they aren't rebuildable. however with a 242, and variloks ... I doubt I'll have much in the way of trail issues (2inch or just under lift, 32inch tires ), atleast on a trail I should have actually attempted anyways LOL, for other situations that's what armor and a winch is for

 

[tjZ06]

Haven't had any real updates lately, but I did drop the Heep off with Xero Fab Works in Shaver Lake. I forgot to snap any pics, so I stole one form his IG, but his WJ made mine look tiny:

It was nice getting to check out some of his work while I was there. The red WJ in the pic is on tons and 37"s, and has an air-bag-trailing-arm rear suspension and bypasses. The front is also a bypass setup. The other gray one inside is becoming a race build, so I got to check out his welding and fab work on the cage, frame stiffeners etc. I was very happy with what I saw, and he's already getting to work on it.

D30 out.



Starting to burn in the Trail Forged Cross Member (eventually the sliders will be all welded in too, cuz those Tek Screws are not super-sweet... the sliders will function as the center section of the frame stiffening).

With respect to the unibody, he said welding tot he stock thin-metal is his least favorite part of the whole dealio, which is why he mostly tackles it first. I've heard this sentiment echoed by many builders, so I think it's fair commentary. On the upside, he was very happy to see how clean the Heep was underneath. Both no rust, but also no BS aftermarket undercoating or anything like that. It's still a PITA, but at least it's a good foundation.

All of the axle swap brackets, trusses, gussets, etc. etc. showed up:

And I think the axle mystery has been put to bed. As posted before, I scored a set of JK Rubicon axles from a '17 with under 20k miles on it for a great deal. The downside, they're 3.73 geared (later auto JK Rubicons had 3.73s as the base gear, 4.10s were an optional whereas all sticks were 4.10s). The "mystery" was whether or not these axles were from a "Recon Edition" or not. The Recon had some upgrades that later became part of the standard JL D44s like thicker axle tubes and way bigger Cs. I ran every number on the tags and stampings on the axles, but mostly that was useless. The closest I got was a thread started by a guy with a brand new '17 Recon Edition back in '17 where he was disappointed he got the "wrong gears" because his auto Recon had 3.73s. His numbers matched mine exactly. We had done some measuring, and just basic visual comparison and we "thought" mine were Recon axles, which would be awesome.

Here's what the C on a "regular" 2017 Rubicon axle looks like:

Here's what I got:

As you can see, way bigger. Doing some rough measuring with inside and outside calipers it also seems like the axle tubes are thicker. So, today Xero did a test-fit the C-gussets, which are meant for a "regular" JK Rubi axle:

I think that clears up any confusion - I scored JK Rubicon Recon Edtion axles... friggin' sweet!



Xero also started on the front frame stiffeners:

-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

Coil buckets and some of the axle stuff getting done:










-TJ

 

[JimBill]

Coil buckets and some of the axle stuff getting done:

-TJ

ABS sensors in the pumplin? Looks like on the rear diff, is there anything on the front or will you abandon the ABS?

 

[tjZ06]

ABS sensors in the pumplin? Looks like on the rear diff, is there anything on the front or will you abandon the ABS?

They're JK axles, so they have wheel-speed-sensors out at the hubs that can be used directly on the WJ and retain ABS. One of the connectors on the pumpkins are for the E-lockers, the other I assume is a vehicle speed sensor, probably used for both the speedo but also the more advanced traction control systems in the later JKs. I looked through my pics of the axles, but not a one really shows where the sensor is. Here you can see the pigtail coming from it:




The sensor is on the other side of the dust-shield on the unit-bearing like this:


Like everything else, the WJ is "special" and it uses the wheel speed sensors for actual vehicle speed (there's not a VSS on the t-case or rear diff stock, as I understand it). So if you don't use axles with wheel speed sensors you have more problems than just losing ABS, you lose the speedo, but worse-yet the trans won't shift right because it doesn't know vehicle speed. I believe what people do who go to older axles where they can't make a wheel speed sensor work is do the SYE kit that Tom Woods has which has a spot for a VSS. I'm not sure how the wiring even works out... but people find a way.

 

[tjZ06]

Some more progress...











-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

I know it doesn't look like a ton of progress, but the builder got a ton of orders in for some of his custom parts (he builds WJ bumpers, the spring perches you see on mine, etc.) and that did slow things for a bit (which was part of our arrangement when I dropped it to him, not him putting off my Heep unduly). Still, it's back on wheels (still have my old tires on) so he could spin it around and work on the tank tuck:



Scroll up and compare that previous pics:


In ^this^ pic what you see is the spare tire tub. The stock gas tank sat 100% below this. If you look back up at where the tank-skid now sits, it's about the same or higher than the spare tire tub used to be. Probably a 8" lift or more for the tank.

-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

Some updates... Xero Fab Works has been keeping this moving forward nicely despite having a big order for some of their parts/kits come in (WJ owners be-broke yo... so tax returns and Covie-checks). Some things that have gotten done:

• Axles re-geared to 4.88 (recall, these were 2017 Rubicon Recon Edition axles that came out of an auto Rubicon that actually had 3.73s)
• T-case fully rebuilt (with added six-pinion planetary)
• Slip Yoke Eliminator done
• Rear sway location mocked-up (see pics)
• Rear shock-mounting mock-up

The rear sway is something I'm especially happy about. A lot of times when people go with a long-arm in the back of WJs they just lose the rear swaybar. Stock the sway is on the axle and it just doesn't work out with the trusses, etc. This is still an "Overlander" not a crawler (really, I swear) and needs to be road-worth for 10+hr pavement drives through super windy passes like I do going out to the family cabin area in Idaho (that's part of the reason it's still on 35"s not 37"+ too). A rear sway is a big part of keeping the road manners, so that was on my "must have" list. We were already doing a Currie AntiRock front, so it needed one for the rear, right?

Before we look at the rear sway location, keep in mind the fuel tank will sit like this:



As discussed above, this is probably 10" higher than stock since the spare tire tub is gone (the plastic you see in the 2nd pic is the stock spare-tire cover sitting in place). So, keep that fuel tank placement in mind when you look at these:






Obviously those aren't the actual plan for mounts, those are just to mock it up, he sent these drawings off for laser-cutting to make real mounts:


It's really getting there, but there are still a lot of things left to be done:

• Hydraulic assist mount and plumbing
• Front swaybar mount and fabbin'
• Rear swaybar mount stuff back from laser and final weld in
• Cycle everything with the actual shocks when they come in
• Get the 35"s swapped on and cycle yet again for final bump-stop/shock/etc. locations
• Trim fenders etc. and cycle more (trim-cycle-trim-cycle-lather-rinse-repeat)
• Final weld everything that's tacked after all of the above
• Paint/coat stuff
• Measure/order driveshafts
• Party

-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

Progress...








-TJ

 

[tjZ06]

I guess I've been lagging on updates here. Lots of stuff has been happening, and I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm having issues attaching any pics. When I get a little time maybe I'll use imgur or something...

-TJ