Wrangler vs Toyota 4runner

[hgill]

I nad a 2010 JKU for 8 yrs before I sold it and bought a 2018 4runner TRD Off-Road Premium. The comfort, cargo space and useability of the 4runner is much better than the JK. If you are going to install your selected lift and tires it will be cheaper that going with a TRD Pro. My T4RORP had an ICON 2.5 lift with CDC adjustable reservoirs, Delta Joint tubular Upper Control Arms and 285/17R/17 KO2s. It is will hand the MOAB trails you mentioned. The limited does not have a rear locker like the off-raod premium. The wheel base on the 4runner is shorter than the JK or JL.

Yea it would be cheaper to go with the TRD pro, but I think the doing the ICON 2.5 stage 7 lift and 285/70/R17, like you did, will make it more off road capable than the stock T4R TRD pro, right?

I do you like the ride after putting in the ICON 2.5 lift?

Hows the long term reliability of the ICON suspension system? I've heard that after a few years, things start to wear out more on an after markey suspension system, compared to if you keep it stock. What are your thoughts?

 

[hgill]

Sounds like a Toyota for me.
If you need to ask, better don't get the jeep.

Good point

 

[hgill]

Something to keep in mind: You'll find a great number of Jeep owners eventually switching to Toyota. Hardly ever will a Toyota owner switch to Jeep.
We owned Jeeps for years before converting over. We also went years assuming it was normal to continuously change out drivetrain parts on our Jeeps. For 200K miles on our first Toyota we thought, this isn't normal, nothing is breaking!
Just sayin'.

I saw your 4runner high clearance front bumper mod video a few weeks back... thats an awesome mod
Did you have an after market lift on your toyota that you put 200k+ k miles on? How do after markey lifts hold up over the long run?

 

[Dustinfromohio]

Seems like no one is giving the up side of jeeps. All the above definitely apply with ride and comfort. Why I've had 3 jeeps and will continue to have another is the ability of driving with the top and doors off. Almost as additive as pain pills! You ether can deal with it for the rush or you go to something nicer.

I think a lot of the recommendations are due to it being a multi use vehicle with lots of highway miles and the op not wanting to do his own maintenance. Had he asked for a trail rig capable of trails requiring 37”s that could still be driven on the road I’d imagine the Jeep would win out.

 

[MazeVX]

Seems like no one is giving the up side of jeeps. All the above definitely apply with ride and comfort. Why I've had 3 jeeps and will continue to have another is the ability of driving with the top and doors off. Almost as additive as pain pills! You ether can deal with it for the rush or you go to something nicer.

I have a jku and driving topless is just annoying to me...

I suggested the 4R and that's because jeeps aren't something you ask for, you want them or not, you want the solid front axle or you don't want it.
You either want a highly capable rig or just a trail capable cruiser.
So to me it's clear in this case.

 

[MidOH]

Top off, doors off, stopped being fun for me around when the tj's died off. It was fun while it lasted, but not as fun as a motorcycle.

 

[adventure_is_necessary]

I have a 2004 Jeep WJ (Grand Cherokee) with the 4.7 V8. While I did not know anything about these really before getting into one, I'd say they're a cheap way to get a good Overlanding rig depending on your needs and desires. Yes, it's an older vehicle that more than likely wasn't cared for like it should have been. However, most everything needed to get them up to snuff is available to replace. I will say there are some issues I have ran into, most related to an aging vehicle with a lack of regular and preventative maintenance, that were unavoidable. Some related to the design of the vehicle being a unibody rig, and some related to the technology of the time. Me personally, I have gone back and forth between both Jeep and Toyota. The problem with me is that I want something unique, and most unique rigs are old. There are a ton of 4Runners and JK/JL Wranglers out there. Infinite possibilities with modding them, which is a plus. If I were to go the route of an older rig again, I'd go Toyota. Newer rigs are a toss up. Yeah, Toyota is generally a more reliable brand, but I have also seen Jeeps go as long on regular maintenance. All in how you treat the vehicle and keep it maintained.

 

[Specter]

I’ve owned a Jeep, a Land Rover and a Toyota. All great vehicles but, in my opinion, the Toyota stands above the rest. The Toyota is the perfect balance of reliability, performance, inexpensive and available maintenance, space, utility and appearance. My experience of over 25 years traveling in austere and remote environments all over the world has taught me that the Toyota brand is the most relied upon off road and utility vehicle on earth. It seems that whether you are a soldier driving a technical in Africa, leading expeditions in the outback of Australia, hunting in Argentina or navigating the terrain in Alaska, the Toyota has proven itself time and time again.
I had a colleague of mine who summed it up perfect for me, “everyone wants to be seen in a Land Rover and everyone wants to be in a Jeep with the top and doors off in the summer, but when you are in the middle of nowhere with no one else to assist you for hundreds of miles, you want to be in a vehicle with a Toyota engine under the hood”. For me, that’s all I needed to hear. When I got rid of my Land Rover I researched the Jeep, drove the Jeep and highly considered the Jeep. It is, after all a great vehicle that has proven itself in its own right. But in the end I purchased the Toyota based on my experiences. Having owned my Toyota for six months now, I’m proud to say I’m a ‘Toyota guy’ for life. You can’t go wrong with either vehicle, but Toyota gets my vote. Hope this provides some guidance for you.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Well pretty much what you are asking has been discussed in other threads. Personal choice. I would say Toyota is more reliable but then a Jeep person will say the same. I do not find Jeeps to be comfortable. The back is even less comfortable. BUT it depends on what you like and not everyone else. I just ate at a place that got great reviews. It was Meh. Not sure if the owner had a Toyota or Jeep though. :)

This sums it up I think, and while I'm very much a Jeep guy, but I wouldn't say that a Jeep is more reliable than a Toyota. I think any Jeep guy saying that is probably speaking from anecdotal personal experience (which is totally fine) and not statistical data. Year after year, there are more problems with Jeeps in general than there are with Toyotas in general. A few notable exceptions are well known with Toyota -- rusty Taco frames, for instance -- but there are similar disastrous issues with Jeeps. Death Wobble, heated Mirror recall or your car will burn up, 3.8 motors not being reliable, 3.6s eating oil pressure sensors, etc.

If you took 1000 JKs and 1000 4Runners, the 1000 JKs would be at the dealerships for repair and replaced parts more than the Toyotas. Neither is likely to leave you stranded though, and that's an important point. Reliability means different things to different people. Some people think a vehicle that has a bunch of broken components and issues but never sits down and leaves them stranded is reliable; the broken bits and components are just 'routine maintenance'. That's how I'd describe our Jeep and our attitude towards it. Others think that the broken components and issues ARE a reliability issue, even if they don't cause the vehicle to totally fail, and routine maintenance beyond fluids, filters, and tires should be mostly unnecessary.

Given you've stated you don't work on vehicles anymore, the Toyota is probably your best bet. Otherwise, the jeep is far superior in really technical stuff, but for most Overhanding-Type trips both are (or can be made to be) comparable in capability.

A jeep is a killer 4x4 convertible though. Doesn't get much cooler than that on the market, and buying one instantly gets you membership into a 'club' of Jeep owners who will wave at you on the highway, come up and strike a conversation in the parking lot of the coffee shop, etc. No other vehicle has that!*

*Except Motorcycles ;)

 

[hgill]

This sums it up I think, but I'm very much a Jeep guy, but I wouldn't say that a Jeep is more reliable than a Toyota. I think any Jeep guy saying that is probably speaking from anecdotal personal experience (which is totally fine) and not statistical data. Year after year, there are more problems with Jeeps in general than there are with Toyotas in general. A few notable exceptions are well known with Toyota -- rusty Taco frames, for instance -- but there are similar disastrous issues with Jeeps. Death Wobble, heated Mirror recall or your car will burn up, 3.8 motors not being reliable, 3.6s eating oil pressure sensors, etc.

If you took 1000 JKs and 1000 4Runners, the 1000 JKs would be at the dealerships for repair and replaced parts more than the Toyotas. Neither is likely to leave you stranded though, and that's an important point. Reliability means different things to different people. Some people think a vehicle that has a bunch of broken components and issues but never sits down and leaves them stranded is reliable; the broken bits and components are just 'routine maintenance'. That's how I'd describe our Jeep and our attitude towards it. Others think that the broken components and issues ARE a reliability issue, even if they don't cause the vehicle to totally fail, and routine maintenance beyond fluids, filters, and tires should be mostly unnecessary.

Given you've stated you don't work on vehicles anymore, the Toyota is probably your best bet. Otherwise, the jeep is far superior in really technical stuff, but for most Overhanding-Type trips both are (or can be made to be) comparable in capability.

A jeep is a killer 4x4 convertible though. Doesn't get much cooler than that on the market, and buying one instantly gets you membership into a 'club' of Jeep owners who will wave at you on the highway, come up and strike a conversation in the parking lot of the coffee shop, etc. No other vehicle has that!*

*Except Motorcycles ;)

Yea great points. Thanks for clearing that up.
Since I'm looking to try out the Jeep, I think I could live with small components failing and needing to be replaced. As long as it doesn't leave me stranded on the mountain in the middle of no-where.
When people talk about Jeeps not being as reliable as Toyota's, I automatically think worst case scenario, and being stranded in the desert.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Yea great points. Thanks for clearing that up.
Since I'm looking to try out the Jeep, I think I could live with small components failing and needing to be replaced. As long as it doesn't leave me stranded on the mountain in the middle of no-where.
When people talk about Jeeps not being as reliable as Toyota's, I automatically think worst case scenario, and being stranded in the desert.

Honestly that is a risk with any vehicle, so plan accordingly, but yes -- generally speaking modern vehicles are very reliable. I'd suggest that the jury may still be out on the new Wrangler JLs; I reserve judgement on any new model year vehicle until the kinks are worked out -- but the JK is proven around the world.

The biggest thing with Jeeps is payload. When you see a lifted jeep with an awning, a roof top tent, the rack to mount it all too, big steel bumpers front and rear with skid plates covering the whole Bottom, and then in the back there is a fridge, a drawer system, on-board water, and hanging off the back is two spare tires with Trasharoos, a high lift, and some jerry cans -- the typical "Expo Cool" Jeep look, you are guaranteed to be over your payload for the rig as soon as you put people, pets, and food in them.

It's a myth that you can increase payload with suspension upgrades in North America at this time, a myth that has been largely debunked in Overlanding but still persists. Sure, suspension can help you handle the weight better, but ultimately the payload is set at the factory and if that door sticker says "850lbs" that's all you get, legally. That's not much at all, so you really do need the "Ultralight Backpacker" mentality with the Jeep.

 

[Wanderlost]

I saw your 4runner high clearance front bumper mod video a few weeks back... thats an awesome mod
Did you have an after market lift on your toyota that you put 200k+ k miles on? How do after markey lifts hold up over the long run?

We have a three inch lift on the FJ when it had a mere 200K miles on it. Now at over 248K, it's still running as strong as ever. A 3" lift is a little taxing on components like CV joints, wheel bearings, tierod ends, ball joints, etc. but not as much as some may think. The original or genuine Toyota built parts are extremely high quality and will surprise you how long they last.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I don't like Toyotas attitude toward the American market. They won't even sell their Jeep beating vehicles here in the states because they have decided that we don't want/deserve them here.

I fully respect where you are coming from. To clarify my own understanding, I was under the impression that the reason for none of the 'good' Toyotas were over here was fleet emissions standards in major markets -- so, less of a Toyota thing, and more of a Regulations thing that are set by government. Canada tends to follow lock-step with California, and with more people in California than there are in all of Canada, I get why. My understanding was that in order for them to sell Toyotas like the 70 series, they'd need to offset the fleet-wide emissions by either producing a totally different vehicle to "average them down" or by going with a new power plant the 70 series, which given the relatively limited market, may not be profitable for them.

While we see a fair number 4 Runners and Tacomas in the Overlanding -- I dare say the majority of the rigs, though the JKs are up there too -- there's 20 bajillion Tacos and 4Runners that never leave tarmac that are sold to consumers, and they really 'drive' the market; the Overlander/4x4 crew that actually WOULD buy a 70 series is a pretty small share of the overall 4x4 owners in America that mostly stick to pavement, but are the bulk of the reason the Taco/4Runner exist.

It's been a few years since I've read much on this stuff though so I may be mistaken. I'm not a huge fan to Toyota corporate myself due to the various folks who have been left high and dry on warantee issues, but I feel that way of every automaker playing in this market. The only car company I have a high opinion of is Tesla, and while I'd happily try to take a model S overlanding -- I wouldn't want it to be a model S that I paid for, and I don't think it's the best tool for the job!

 

[hgill]

Honestly that is a risk with any vehicle, so plan accordingly, but yes -- generally speaking modern vehicles are very reliable. I'd suggest that the jury may still be out on the new Wrangler JLs; I reserve judgement on any new model year vehicle until the kinks are worked out -- but the JK is proven around the world.

The biggest thing with Jeeps is payload. When you see a lifted jeep with an awning, a roof top tent, the rack to mount it all too, big steel bumpers front and rear with skid plates covering the whole Bottom, and then in the back there is a fridge, a drawer system, on-board water, and hanging off the back is two spare tires with Trasharoos, a high lift, and some jerry cans -- the typical "Expo Cool" Jeep look, you are guaranteed to be over your payload for the rig as soon as you put people, pets, and food in them.

It's a myth that you can increase payload with suspension upgrades in North America at this time, a myth that has been largely debunked in Overlanding but still persists. Sure, suspension can help you handle the weight better, but ultimately the payload is set at the factory and if that door sticker says "850lbs" that's all you get, legally. That's not much at all, so you really do need the "Ultralight Backpacker" mentality with the Jeep.

I've never thought about it that way. You see all these overlanding rigs and you start to think that that's normal, and you "need" all that. lol.
But I plan on doing good old fashioned car camping with just a cooler and food.
And from what I've heard, the 3.6L Pentastar is a pretty reliable engine, and has been around for a long time.
If I end up buying the Rubicon unlimited, I plan on keeping it stock. And maybe a small lift and 35 inch tires down the line sometime.

So from you mentioned earlier, I think my set up should be reliable (granted nothing is guaranteed, and there is that 0.01% chance that even a Toyota will break down at the wrong time).

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I've never thought about it that way. You see all these overlanding rigs and you start to think that that's normal, and you "need" all that. lol.
But I plan on doing good old fashioned car camping with just a cooler and food.
And from what I've heard, the 3.6L Pentastar is a pretty reliable engine, and has been around for a long time.
If I end up buying the Rubicon unlimited, I plan on keeping it stock. And maybe a small lift and 35 inch tires down the line sometime.

So from you mentioned earlier, I think my set up should be reliable (granted nothing is guaranteed, and there is that 0.01% chance that even a Toyota will break down at the wrong time).

Absolutely -- great idea. I'm a big fan of "keep it simple, keep it stock" except for known issues. The 3.6 will go through oil pressure sensors if you keep replacing with Chryslers' part number for instance, but there are aftermarket ones that are better. Its a nuisance of job as you need to take the intake off to get the sensor changed, and to do that 'by the book' means you need to take the left right fender off, so you don't want to have to do it often. But a stock JK with a backpacker mentality will take you all over the place just fine. Ours took us from Mexico to the Arctic Ocean and many places in between.

This gent's took him around Africa -- with the 3.8 no less. Good thing he didn't read all the posts on the internet about how that engine doesn't work ;) (kidding)

The Jeep | The Road Chose Me.


And this couple is going...well, everywhere in their jeep:

Expedition Earth

Expedition Earth explore environmental issues as they circumnavigate the globe on their 90 country overland journey.

www.expeditionearth.live

I miss our Jeep dearly but am happy with our Canyon. The JK really is a good vehicle, and if our needs changed, I'd buy another one. But try it -- they aren't for everyone. And if you don't plan to travel solo (i.e. you plan to bring a friend or family), bring someone with you when you try 'em out. The biggest shocks for us when we left the JK for the Canyon were:

1) We could hear each other speak. All of a sudden, after YEARS of overlanding together in the Jeep, we were having conversations again! The jeep is loud -- wind noise, road noise, etc. but that is the price you pay for a removable top.

2) We could pass stuff on the highway. THAT was surreal -- in the summer, I'll often be on my ADV bike, so our normal routine was we'd convoy most of the time and I'd go slow, but in bad traffic I'd whip ahead for safety and we'd rendezvous at the next gas station because the bike would whip past other cars whereas the Jeep....just wouldn't. Didn't have the power. God help you if there was a head wind or a small hill! With the Canyon on our latest trip I got a bit freaked out every time I'd twist the wrist to get around somebody, and before I could radio back to say "I'll meet you at the Shell in Whatever town", I'd look in my mirror and see "GMC" right there with me! Some folks really don't like the jeep for that lack of "go". Honestly it's a preference thing and you get used to it.

 

[MidOH]

I don't like Toyotas attitude toward the American market. They won't even sell their Jeep beating vehicles here in the states because they have decided that we don't want/deserve them here. Jeep should get your money because they offer front and rear coil sprung solid axles with front/rear lockers, sway bar disconnects, room for larger tires and 4:1 gearing in the transfer case. If I'm going off road, that's what I care about. Toyota hasn't sold a comparable vehicle here since the 80 series landcruiser(1997). I have an old Toyota with some of those attributes but I wouldn't buy a new one knowing that they make what I really want but don't think I deserve to be able to buy it. In my opinion, the 4Runner compares more with the grand cherokee than the wrangler. The wrangler and gladiator would compete with the 2019 70 series lineup if they were sold here

View attachment 110459

Agree completely.

[But if I was Toyota, I'd fix those up even more and then flaunt the fact that they aren't coming to the US. Just to spite us. Way too many weak sauce people would just say:
''It's too slow, way too slow.''
''Too loud, to much vibration.''
''Looks cheap.''
''Too slow, no power.''
''Seat cushions have chemicals in them.''
'' But my Tacoma........''
''What do you mean it only has 4 gears?''
''The single cab chassis? Isn't that normally used as a fruit stand in Mexico?''
''Diesel bad.''
''Import ships run over whales.''
''What's the 3rd peddle for? I don't have to push that while driving, do I?''

That troop carrier is just too nice. We don't deserve it.]

Uber reliable little, slow, diesels just won't sell here. I'm curiously watching Fords slow little F150 diesel to see if people will get over the fact that it's slower than the base model 5.0. I'm not sure US egos can handle that, even knowing the advantages that little slow diesels have.

Big risk investing in eco diesels. I love little Yanmar and Kubota diesels. I'd love to have a slow Jeep with one.

 

[grubworm]

my wife has a jeep sahara and i have a tundra. unless shes putting around by herself, we always take the tundra

 

[Huezee]

I had a similar dilemma. I was torn between a Wrangler and a 4runner. I liked the capability of the Wrangler but having owned a YJ I didn't want to deal with the drawbacks. I also couldn't really justify the price Toyota was asking for a 4runner with outdated interior/ICE. Ultimately, I decided to get a new to me Grand Cherokee Trailhawk with a CarMax warranty. No complaints so far. Work with my lifestyle which is 90% on road but capable enough when I need it.

 

[Mtntrekker]

Yea it would be cheaper to go with the TRD pro, but I think the doing the ICON 2.5 stage 7 lift and 285/70/R17, like you did, will make it more off road capable than the stock T4R TRD pro, right?

I do you like the ride after putting in the ICON 2.5 lift?

Hows the long term reliability of the ICON suspension system? I've heard that after a few years, things start to wear out more on an after markey suspension system, compared to if you keep it stock. What are your thoughts?

I didn't do the full stage 7 only the CDC shocks. It would make it more capable but it depends on what how you off road.
I have only had my lift on for 7 months so I can't address the long term reliability of the suspension. It will require maintenance/rebuild of the shocks down the road

 

[Pavement Warrior]

Fiat quality is horrible. Love my jeep but day one home means torquing all your bolts to spec and seating all the loose fuses. Besure to drive it and make sure its not got death shimmy or wandering.

They are starting to get a handle on the steering issues, and have rev gear box, trackbar, draglink, steering stabilizer since launch, but drive and make sure its not wandering all over.