What About "Idiots" on Our Trails?

[Michael]

So with this in mind and the recent action of OB1235, three people dislodging a large boulder from a cliff face and kicking it to the valley below, what as a community is the right action? I believe that the removal of his membership was the correct thing to do but I also believe that there are probably more like him within OB, statistics and all that. Would mandating tread lightly certification be a good move? What about required qualifications for leadership positions? For example identify a core group as backcountry ambassadors who are advocates for access either through volunteer work or working with access groups. Maybe encourage volunteer work for certain levels of membership or privileges such as organizing larger group activities. Just a few thoughts from a new member concerned about increasing numbers in the backcountry and the problems that brings.

I'm not completely happy with the way it went. It was too reactionary. We, OLB, need to have a well thought out and defined policy about members trashing trails and being one of "the idiots". We have been thinking discussing this quite a bit.

 

[Kyle & Kari Frink]

A lot of good things have been said on this thread, I think the big take away is First and foremost think about your safety, document what happened(for the proper authorities) and lead by example. It may seem trivial but clean up the mess they left, because they sure won't. Also don't have the "Oh someone will come along and take care of it, i.e. park ranger/whoever" NO, take the initiative and resolve the problem to the best of your ability because if you take care of it at the lowest level, the "people/authority" who have the power to close campsites/trails won't be lead to make such choices because the "trash/damage" is already taken care of. Basically what I am saying is don't give the decision makers any more ammo than they already have to make such closures happen. If they see that people care, and are taking action to preserve our trails(if man power and finances/budgets aren't a factor) they won't lean towards closure or more restrictions.

 

[Ditch]

I can't lay claim to having witnessed someone tear up trails, or trash land with uncontrollable disregard for the very planet we call home, but I have seen my share of litter bugs and large deposits of dumping on roadsides.

My folks raised me not to even walk on the edges of a neighbors lawn, let alone throw my garbage on their land. I raised my own children the same way. I believe education is really the answer. It has to start at home.

And don't most homes (and schools) have computers, so that there is a way to educate more people (especially the kids) through the school systems? Can Overland Bound get an educational plan going that could be shared with public schools? Some sort of community program that shows the benefits of maintaining the pristine areas we enjoy and/or would like to continue to enjoy? Even brochures or pamphlets to describe the importance of this subject.

In Jr. High School we had an ecology club and each year our school went out to clean up Loch Raven Reservoir in Maryland and when completed in a weekend we left with a dump truck load of bagged garbage. Ecology was impressed not only in the children, but the parents who had them. It worked wonderfully. Can OB develop anything like that to share in the educational systems? I know so many things are going on here for Michael and Corrie but maybe in time? Maybe set up some stands at Community Fairs or State Fairgrounds to spread our goals and build this community even more? Is it a pipe dream - - - just wondering aloud?

Also, I have taken away many great points from the suggestions so many here have already contributed. Thanks to others for wanting to do things that really matter.

 

[MOAK]

I can't lay claim to having witnessed someone tear up trails, or trash land with uncontrollable disregard for the very planet we call home, but I have seen my share of litter bugs and large deposits of dumping on roadsides.

My folks raised me not to even walk on the edges of a neighbors lawn, let alone throw my garbage on their land. I raised my own children the same way. I believe education is really the answer. It has to start at home.

And don't most homes (and schools) have computers, so that there is a way to educate more people (especially the kids) through the school systems? Can Overland Bound get an educational plan going that could be shared with public schools? Some sort of community program that shows the benefits of maintaining the pristine areas we enjoy and/or would like to continue to enjoy? Even brochures or pamphlets to describe the importance of this subject.

In Jr. High School we had an ecology club and each year our school went out to clean up Loch Raven Reservoir in Maryland and when completed in a weekend we left with a dump truck load of bagged garbage. Ecology was impressed not only in the children, but the parents who had them. It worked wonderfully. Can OB develop anything like that to share in the educational systems? I know so many things are going on here for Michael and Corrie but maybe in time? Maybe set up some stands at Community Fairs or State Fairgrounds to spread our goals and build this community even more? Is it a pipe dream - - - just wondering aloud?

Also, I have taken away many great points from the suggestions so many here have already contributed. Thanks to others for wanting to do things that really matter.

Careful, in todays political climate you might be accused of being a lefty liberal. So good luck getting any of that into our public schools. I am not a tree hugging lefty liberal, but I'm constantly being accused of being so, because of my ecological outlook. I want access, motorized and otherwise, but I just don't think it necessary to align ones self with any political ideology. Taking care of our earth goes so far beyond politics, yet it is constantly politicized. The RW media is constantly mocking not only "Earth Day" but any attempts to educate our children about the importance of keeping our planet whole. I am dumbfounded at this. I can remember my eyes watering from the smog, the Cuyahoga River on fire, open abandoned strip mines in my hometown and all over Ohio, trash everywhere along our roadways. EPA laws cleaned that crap up. Now we are confronted with an entire generation that have never experienced what we did, up until the 70s when the clean up began. I don't want to go back to that, therefore it is not possible to align myself with anyone that wants to dismember or out right do away with the EPA. I am firmly convinced that any hard core lefty tree huggers, if taken into the wilderness, would change their minds about responsible vehicular access. Unfortunately most of the people that are against us have a stereotype in mind. We need to delineate ourselves from that stereotypical image that so many have in their heads. A few years ago I did have the pleasure of taking one such person on a tour of one of my favorite forests here in Pa. I changed a mind and obliterated this stereotype.

 

[Ditch]

Careful, in todays political climate you might be accused of being a lefty liberal. So good luck getting any of that into our public schools. I am not a tree hugging lefty liberal, but I'm constantly being accused of being so, because of my ecological outlook. I want access, motorized and otherwise, but I just don't think it necessary to align ones self with any political ideology. Taking care of our earth goes so far beyond politics, yet it is constantly politicized. The RW media is constantly mocking not only "Earth Day" but any attempts to educate our children about the importance of keeping our planet whole. I am dumbfounded at this. I can remember my eyes watering from the smog, the Cuyahoga River on fire, open abandoned strip mines in my hometown and all over Ohio, trash everywhere along our roadways. EPA laws cleaned that crap up. Now we are confronted with an entire generation that have never experienced what we did, up until the 70s when the clean up began. I don't want to go back to that, therefore it is not possible to align myself with anyone that wants to dismember or out right do away with the EPA. I am firmly convinced that any hard core lefty tree huggers, if taken into the wilderness, would change their minds about responsible vehicular access. Unfortunately most of the people that are against us have a stereotype in mind. We need to delineate ourselves from that stereotypical image that so many have in their heads. A few years ago I did have the pleasure of taking one such person on a tour of one of my favorite forests here in Pa. I changed a mind and obliterated this stereotype.
View attachment 60665

I am open minded to everyone being entitled to an opinion, so I will refrain from saying more, since I don't exactly understand the implication of your typed words. As with many typed or texted messages, they do not convey an exact meaning and can be greatly misunderstood. I was simply thinking out loud.

 

[MOAK]

I am open minded to everyone being entitled to an opinion, so I will refrain from saying more, since I don't exactly understand the implication of your typed words. As with many typed or texted messages, they do not convey an exact meaning and can be greatly misunderstood. I was simply thinking out loud.

I firmly believe we have much in common. I think out loud a lot too. I think that in this day and age it would be nearly impossible to get your, mine, and OBs message integrated into our public schools. Yes, it would be very cool, and yes it is badly needed. Our next generations need to be taught the "tread lightly" and "leave no trace" principals.

 

[Tommys]

Leave no trace is a Scout thing that has morphed into the outdoor explorer practice.

I was horrified one night driving into a campsite where i and my family was about to prepare for a slumber. It was a clear disregard for the environment and safety. Sad too. We cleaned up the joint but I bet at their next stop, they left it the same.

What about you? Do you clean up after others?
Check out my beach tidbit: Leave NO Trace

 

[Kyle & Kari Frink]

I can't lay claim to having witnessed someone tear up trails, or trash land with uncontrollable disregard for the very planet we call home, but I have seen my share of litter bugs and large deposits of dumping on roadsides.

My folks raised me not to even walk on the edges of a neighbors lawn, let alone throw my garbage on their land. I raised my own children the same way. I believe education is really the answer. It has to start at home.

And don't most homes (and schools) have computers, so that there is a way to educate more people (especially the kids) through the school systems? Can Overland Bound get an educational plan going that could be shared with public schools? Some sort of community program that shows the benefits of maintaining the pristine areas we enjoy and/or would like to continue to enjoy? Even brochures or pamphlets to describe the importance of this subject.

In Jr. High School we had an ecology club and each year our school went out to clean up Loch Raven Reservoir in Maryland and when completed in a weekend we left with a dump truck load of bagged garbage. Ecology was impressed not only in the children, but the parents who had them. It worked wonderfully. Can OB develop anything like that to share in the educational systems? I know so many things are going on here for Michael and Corrie but maybe in time? Maybe set up some stands at Community Fairs or State Fairgrounds to spread our goals and build this community even more? Is it a pipe dream - - - just wondering aloud?

Also, I have taken away many great points from the suggestions so many here have already contributed. Thanks to others for wanting to do things that really matter.

@Ditch

Really like the Idea you have presented with getting schools involved because this does teach our children good values and lessons on how things should be to help preserve their future and their potential children's future. Because honestly what you do now is really for the future, but this only works if enough people take action. Good point and I would get with Michael and your region ambassador and possibly find an OB member who is a teacher and see where you all can take it. Don't worry about what people say lol, if you let silly crap like that get to you. Will you ever get anywhere? You know? Thanks for the input for sure.

 

[Kyle & Kari Frink]

Careful, in todays political climate you might be accused of being a lefty liberal. So good luck getting any of that into our public schools. I am not a tree hugging lefty liberal, but I'm constantly being accused of being so, because of my ecological outlook. I want access, motorized and otherwise, but I just don't think it necessary to align ones self with any political ideology. Taking care of our earth goes so far beyond politics, yet it is constantly politicized. The RW media is constantly mocking not only "Earth Day" but any attempts to educate our children about the importance of keeping our planet whole. I am dumbfounded at this. I can remember my eyes watering from the smog, the Cuyahoga River on fire, open abandoned strip mines in my hometown and all over Ohio, trash everywhere along our roadways. EPA laws cleaned that crap up. Now we are confronted with an entire generation that have never experienced what we did, up until the 70s when the clean up began. I don't want to go back to that, therefore it is not possible to align myself with anyone that wants to dismember or out right do away with the EPA. I am firmly convinced that any hard core lefty tree huggers, if taken into the wilderness, would change their minds about responsible vehicular access. Unfortunately most of the people that are against us have a stereotype in mind. We need to delineate ourselves from that stereotypical image that so many have in their heads. A few years ago I did have the pleasure of taking one such person on a tour of one of my favorite forests here in Pa. I changed a mind and obliterated this stereotype.



View attachment 60665

@MOAK

Great news that you were able to change ones perspective, you have to start somewhere and one is better than none. Thanks!

 

[Kyle & Kari Frink]

Leave no trace is a Scout thing that has morphed into the outdoor explorer practice.

I was horrified one night driving into a campsite where i and my family was about to prepare for a slumber. It was a clear disregard for the environment and safety. Sad too. We cleaned up the joint but I bet at their next stop, they left it the same.

What about you? Do you clean up after others?
Check out my beach tidbit: Leave NO Trace

@Tommys

Everyone should have the mentality to leave it better than you found it, or as you and so many other have been taught. Leave no Trace, our world is slowly falling to the wayside because I firmly believe parents fail to teach this to their children, plus society has become very technology/electronic based so most younger kids don't feel the need to get out. But there are those who do and help, just the turds of our society have a way of setting bad examples and children/adults as well typically are "monkey see/monkey do" which is sad. We can change this over time, just needs positive action and encouragement to do what is right.

 

[SubeeBen]

Unfortunately this world is filled with idiots & people with no common sense or dignity for their actions. If there’s not an app for it people have no clue what to do. Soooo sad but
WE ARE DOOMED

 

[noah.wass]

I love this thread and am glad that I've found and joined this community. Our outdoor spaces are unique and deserve to be left better than we found.

 

[Boostpowered]

I just mind my own business, clean mess if i find it and keep on trucking. Its alot like trash in lakes the people are trashy and flooding brings in alot of trash from peoples yards and roadsides, we go once a month to local lakes and paddle around on our kayaks picking up trash, it pays off i usually walk away with alot of new fishing tackle i find on shore line.

 

[robrtsmtn]

I may have to apologize for myself here. While the majority of trails in the San Juan's of SW CO I play in are relatively clean of trash, there is a huge issue of going off trail. the peak of Black Bear Pass is one horrible example. Also, the creation of fire pits where there may be another within 50 feet is a big issue. I am not shy about confronting those I see not observing rules around either of these issues. ok, I am old, and obviously get pissed off easily, but I do believe in confronting trail issues at the time and place. learning is only effective if contiguous with the transgression.

 

[Terex]

I think we're all on the same page (pages) here. Totally agree with not politicizing stuff. Enjoy, learn, share, repeat.

 

[Ruben Ferran]

Totally agree. Went out this weekend to enjoy nature’s back yard and it upsets me to see people leave there trash.

 

[Stickbow]

My wife and I have a beach house in FL that's in a small community of houses that is completely surrounded by state park. We carry four extra plastic grocery bags whenever we walk (and we walk a LOT -- by ourselves or with our dogs). The reason we carry four extra bags -- we hand them to other people who are out walking when they see what we're doing. We tell them they are welcome to dump it in our 'Hobo' if they want.

Hurricane Michael did a tee total ton of damage on the Panhandle, and dumped more trash and debris than you can imagine. We were there the weekend after, helping our neighbors haul stuff out of their yards so they could get in their houses, but talked about how important it was going to be to do beach cleanup once things got back to normal -- and did so ourselves when we weren't helping our neighbors. Sunday afternoon, and the three weekends following, we had help in our beach cleanup walks from most of the folks we helped - even though some of them still had work to do. We got permission from the park to use a couple people's four wheelers to haul stuff.

The beach from the point to the last house is now relatively clean of 'trash' - though new washes up on pretty much every tide. Now I see other people picking up, when it used to be just the two of us and a couple other people picking up anything that wasn't on "their" stretch of beach.

This winter, I plan on getting a group together to clean up the trails in the park (walking/cycling only, not vehicle)

Anyhow - point is that we set an example, walking the talk and actually encouraging people to clean up. It's not the answer to every situation (especially not the 1d10T situation), but is a way to get the average folks to think about it.

 

[Viking1204]

My wife and I have a beach house in FL that's in a small community of houses that is completely surrounded by state park. We carry four extra plastic grocery bags whenever we walk (and we walk a LOT -- by ourselves or with our dogs). The reason we carry four extra bags -- we hand them to other people who are out walking when they see what we're doing. We tell them they are welcome to dump it in our 'Hobo' if they want.

Hurricane Michael did a tee total ton of damage on the Panhandle, and dumped more trash and debris than you can imagine. We were there the weekend after, helping our neighbors haul stuff out of their yards so they could get in their houses, but talked about how important it was going to be to do beach cleanup once things got back to normal -- and did so ourselves when we weren't helping our neighbors. Sunday afternoon, and the three weekends following, we had help in our beach cleanup walks from most of the folks we helped - even though some of them still had work to do. We got permission from the park to use a couple people's four wheelers to haul stuff.

The beach from the point to the last house is now relatively clean of 'trash' - though new washes up on pretty much every tide. Now I see other people picking up, when it used to be just the two of us and a couple other people picking up anything that wasn't on "their" stretch of beach.

This winter, I plan on getting a group together to clean up the trails in the park (walking/cycling only, not vehicle)

Anyhow - point is that we set an example, walking the talk and actually encouraging people to clean up. It's not the answer to every situation (especially not the 1d10T situation), but is a way to get the average folks to think about it.

The weekend after Michael hit I went down there with a group of guys from Legendary Marine and we helped people all day long, cut a lot of trees for people and helped put tarps on their roofs. What state park are you talking about cleaning up this Winter? I live in the Panhandle about an 1.5 hours from Panama City and I'd gladly meet up with you to help. There's more OB members in the Panhandle near me who might be willing to help too. Please send me a message when you plan this and I'll make sure I can help out and as always it will be nice to meet another member!

 

[Baipin]

I think it's important to lead by example, and I think it's also important for people to not get caught up in identity politics; you don't believe the environment should be respected and preserved for future generations (not to mention, the critters that call it home) because you're on the left - you do it because it's the right, moral, and sensible thing to do. I think it's that right there - the critical thinking bit, not getting caught up in some prescribed narrative - that's really missing from a lot of people in today's world. If they don't learn it from their peers, then from whom? How you approach problems when you're young sets the tone for later in life, which is why I really like the idea from @Ditch . Whether in teacher's college of volunteering in classrooms, I always try and express that, especially in relation to the environment. Nature doesn't care who you vote for; it's your world to live in, and your world to keep clean or to screw up.

Like @MOAK said, I think part of this is also letting people know that really, people in the overlanding community are often among the first line of defense when it comes to keeping the environment (our environment) in good shape, and often we do just that - we do lead by example. For myself, I partake in monthly cleanups of the local river. I always try and strike up conversations about doing similar work outside of these events (ie. on the trail) and that seems to get a positive response - people take on a different impression of overlanding from that - it helps to shake the "dirty, irresponsible 4x4'er" stereotype. With my generation at least (young 20's here) I find more people "get it" from the get-go. Maybe that has to do with vandwelling and related activities being increasingly popular among us.

 

[grubworm]

Nature doesn't care who you vote for

Thats a pretty good quote