US East Running the Trans America Trail (TAT) from WV to the OR coast

[armyRN]

I'm new to the radio stuff, did the FCC change a ruling or something? If the reduction happens, it's worth the wait for me, the $35 saved can go toward radio equipment.

It is news to me. If anyone hears anything or knows anything about this, let us know.

And yeah; $35 will buy you a BaoFeng UV-5R and a spare battery!

 

[T. Stanley]

I wish I had seen that post about the fees dropping, I would have waited until the fee changed before applying for my gmrs license. I can use the $35 more than Uncle Sam can

 

[Solo Saga]

You are welcome to shoot me a message if you have any questions, I enjoy talking radio.

Appreciate that Brother!

 

[Solo Saga]

Yes sir, it just came out a few days ago that the fee for a GMRS license is decreasing, unfortunately the fee for a ham license is increasing.

$35 Amateur/GMRS radio fees

New license, Renewals, and vanity call sign application will carry a $35 fee effective in the very near future. Upon further review it appears GMRS is also included in this which means the license fee will actually come down from $70 to $35. https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-20-184A1.pdf

www.overlandbound.com

Thanks!

 

[Aloha_Cruiser]

Aloha everyone,
Shaun here. Currently residing in Southern NJ. Before moving here I spent 4 years in Japan and picked up a 1989 Toyota Land Cruiser. I’m Active Duty Air Force, going on 21 years. I’m looking at starting the transition into civilian life next year. I think this trip will be a good break in between all chaos as I start my new journey to Uncharted territories.
I’ve camped all my life and always like being outdoors. I’ve done a few short Couple day trips here and there, this will be the longest. Like ArmyRN says you don’t need the expensive gadgets. Just whatever works.
I do have a UV-5R and a gmrs license, never used either of them.
Since my time will be limited, we probably won’t do the whole trip. Maybe 3 weeks on the trail 1 week home. I’ll have to play it by ear until then. I’ll definitely keep the group in the loop. Maybe after I retire I’ll find myself with more time, only time will tell.
Look forward to getting things planned out as the dates get closer.

 

[NMBruce]

I am not sure I can take 4-5 weeks this summer, but it might be nice to try and join in Colorado and go west for a week or more.

Rig is a new 2020 Tacoma TRD OR, stock as of now and I would most likely bring my trailer.

 

[T. Stanley]

Welcome Shaun and Bruce

 

[Downs]

A question or two has come up about GMRS radio usage. There's no special language or such you need to use to communicate with GMRS. If you can use a CB radio, you can use a GMRS. We'll most likely start out on channel 15 (462.55000) unless that channel is in use by someone else (then we'll move down a channel). Refer to attachment below.

A couple things you should have in your vehicle related to your GMRS radio:

1. The instructional paperwork that came with your radio (instructions on how to use it, change frequencies, etc.). I still have to refer to my paperwork sometimes - I'll freely admit it.

2. Copy of your GMRS license. I seriously doubt the FCC will be out there checking, but it doesn't hurt to have a copy of it.

3. A printed copy of the attachment below. Sometimes depending on the radio, "Their" channel 15 might be different from "My" channel 15. But 462.55000 is 462.55000. Some of the handhelds only show 1 - 22 - they don't show frequencies. And if channel 15 is in use and I say "Ok' lets go to channel 16, you'll know channel 16 is 462.57500 by looking at the attachment that you printed out and brought with you. I've had it happen where we decided to change frequencies in the middle of the trail.

Practice changing channels on your radio. And if there's a way on your radio to "lock-it" on the channel, know how to lock and unlock. Sometimes someone will accidently push a button on their unlocked radio and they change their frequency, and now they've lost radio contact with the rest of the group (and sadly they don't know it, but later they'll say they thought it suddenly got quiet on the radio).

As long as your callsign is in the FCC database that is all that matters. There's no legal reason to carry a paper license with you unless you just feel like it. Also keep in mind that channels 15-22 are also repeater outputs and there are a growing number of GMRS repeaters out there so if possible try not to interfere with their operation. Our local group for example uses 16 because 15 is the output for our local GMRS repeater.

They sell little hand-held "FRS" radios in blister packs all-day-long in most sporting goods stores and Walmart and such. They cover the GMRS frequencies, but they are very low output radios (2Watts max) and don't require a license. Not what I would recommend for our trip. The BaoFeng UV-5R I mentioned earlier is about 4Watts (adequate); the BaoFeng one I'm using is 8Watts. The Midland hard mounted one I mentioned is 15Watt (more than enough). And they go up in power from there.

If you're trying to stay 100 percent legal the UV-5Rs and UV-82s aren't legal for use on GMRS because they lack FCC Part 95 certification. BTECH does sell a GMRS version of the UV-82 called the GMRSV1, but max power is 2 watts on high and low power is 0.5 watts. It is one of the few certified GMRS handhelds that will do repeater operation and will hook to an external antenna. IIRC WOUXUN also has a certified GMRS handheld that will do repeaters and has a 5 watt output.

As for antennas. If all you are going to run is GMRS and not run HAM as well I would go with a dedicated commercial band antenna instead of a dual band HAM antenna. GMRS is mixed up in the Business band so an antenna tuned for that area 460ish-470ish mhz should perform better than a widerbanded ham antenna. Also don't get too wrapped up in longer/higher gain is better. Different tools for different jobs. Higher gain antennas are typically better for flatter more open terrain and the lower gain antennas are going to be more suited for varied hilly/mountainous terrain where the group will be spread out by height as well as distance.

Antennas take up basically no space so if I was going on this trip I would carry a little 6inch 1/4 wave or 12 inch 1/2 wave antenna (half wave is typically known as no ground plane antennas, I believe some 2x 5/8ths fall into this category as well) for tighter more grown up areas and rougher terrain and a longer 5/8s or 2x 5/8s antenna for the road and more flat open areas.

Here are 2 budget options from TRAM/BROWNING. They won't break the bank but will get the job done well and be reliable.

https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/tram-1177-1565

 

[armyRN]

As long as your callsign is in the FCC database that is all that matters. There's no legal reason to carry a paper license with you unless you just feel like it. Also keep in mind that channels 15-22 are also repeater outputs and there are a growing number of GMRS repeaters out there so if possible try not to interfere with their operation. Our local group for example uses 16 because 15 is the output for our local GMRS repeater.




If you're trying to stay 100 percent legal the UV-5Rs and UV-82s aren't legal for use on GMRS because they lack FCC Part 95 certification. BTECH does sell a GMRS version of the UV-82 called the GMRSV1, but max power is 2 watts on high and low power is 0.5 watts. It is one of the few certified GMRS handhelds that will do repeater operation and will hook to an external antenna. IIRC WOUXUN also has a certified GMRS handheld that will do repeaters and has a 5 watt output.

As for antennas. If all you are going to run is GMRS and not run HAM as well I would go with a dedicated commercial band antenna instead of a dual band HAM antenna. GMRS is mixed up in the Business band so an antenna tuned for that area 460ish-470ish mhz should perform better than a widerbanded ham antenna. Also don't get too wrapped up in longer/higher gain is better. Different tools for different jobs. Higher gain antennas are typically better for flatter more open terrain and the lower gain antennas are going to be more suited for varied hilly/mountainous terrain where the group will be spread out by height as well as distance.

Antennas take up basically no space so if I was going on this trip I would carry a little 6inch 1/4 wave or 12 inch 1/2 wave antenna (half wave is typically known as no ground plane antennas, I believe some 2x 5/8ths fall into this category as well) for tighter more grown up areas and rougher terrain and a longer 5/8s or 2x 5/8s antenna for the road and more flat open areas.

Here are 2 budget options from TRAM/BROWNING. They won't break the bank but will get the job done well and be reliable.

https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/tram-1177-1565

I'm glad we've got some smart radio folks chiming in here! My HAM/GMRS knowledge only goes so far (not far at all actually). Thanks! I'm learning stuff. Thanks for the antenna advice.

I have my HAM call sign memorized (KI7TSP), but not my GMRS. I carry copies of both licenses in my Jeep just for good measure as they have my call sign and my name on them on official(-sh) looking paperwork. Each is just a twice folded single piece of paper placed with my other radio paperwork. I guess I could just write both on a sticky note and put it in with my radio paperwork, but maybe I'm just a little OCD.

And on one of our journeys once in 2019 we were in the middle of nowhere in WA and we were contacted by a GMRS channel 15 repeater station that told us we were interfering with them. It does happen, so of course being courteous Overlanders we dropped down to channel 16 (one of the reasons I earlier put out the frequencies for each GMRS channel for folks to print out and have with them). On Overland Bound's header their default GMRS channel is 15, so that's the one I chose for us to start out on. Different parts of the country may have repeaters set to different channels. We will do our best not to interfere with any of them, and will change frequencies as needed.

If we were blasting the airwaves with a lot of watts on a GMRS channel that was interfering with a business's use of GMRS or some other entity's use, the FCC might get involved. I really don't think the FCC would ever notice or care about us out in the middle of the woods using low powered 4Watt UV-5R radios for convoy communications. So while I'm trying to stay mostly legal (make sure everyone has a GMRS license and we're being courteous using them), I'm not too worried about the UV-5R radios themselves being legal or not due to their low output (and low entry cost). Nobody is saying you can't own one of these UV-5R radios or listen-in on them. They're just not "FCC Certified" to transmit on (even though they are designed to transmit on GMRS frequencies) - that's where the issue of legality comes into play.

I'm assuming (guessing?) the hard mounted and hand-held GMRS radios sold by Midland are technically legal(?). I did a quick look on their website and didn't see anything mentioning legality of their radios.

If I were starting over, I'd go with the 15W Midland hard-mounted radio and antenna in my Jeep instead of what I've got now (and use my BaoFeng UV-5R radios for when out of the vehicle). I just haven't been with a group that used HAM for their communications (my original intent when I got my HAM license and got the external antenna).

These BaoFeng UV-5R radios, while inexpensive, are not toys. You need a license to transmit on them (depending on the frequency, either a HAM license or a GMRS license). Please don't buy them and give them to your kids to play with as walkie-talkies.

 

[T. Stanley]

I'm glad we've got some smart radio folks chiming in here! My HAM/GMRS knowledge only goes so far (not far at all actually). Thanks! I'm learning stuff. Thanks for the antenna advice.

I have my HAM call sign memorized (KI7TSP), but not my GMRS. I carry copies of both licenses in my Jeep just for good measure as they have my call sign and my name on them on official(-sh) looking paperwork. Each is just a twice folded single piece of paper placed with my other radio paperwork. I guess I could just write both on a sticky note and put it in with my radio paperwork, but maybe I'm just a little OCD.

And on one of our journeys once in 2019 we were in the middle of nowhere in WA and we were contacted by a GMRS channel 15 repeater station that told us we were interfering with them. It does happen, so of course being courteous Overlanders we dropped down to channel 16 (one of the reasons I earlier put out the frequencies for each GMRS channel for folks to print out and have with them). On Overland Bound's header their default GMRS channel is 15, so that's the one I chose for us to start out on. Different parts of the country may have repeaters set to different channels. We will do our best not to interfere with any of them, and will change frequencies as needed.

If we were blasting the airwaves with a lot of watts on a GMRS channel that was interfering with a business's use of GMRS or some other entity's use, the FCC might get involved. I really don't think the FCC would ever notice or care about us out in the middle of the woods using low powered 4Watt UV-5R radios for convoy communications. So while I'm trying to stay mostly legal (make sure everyone has a GMRS license and we're being courteous using them), I'm not too worried about the UV-5R radios themselves being legal due to their low output (and low entry cost). I'm assuming (guessing?) the hard mounted and hand-held GMRS radios sold my Midland are technically legal(?). I did a quick look on their website and didn't see anything mentioning legality of their radios.

If I were starting over, I'd go with the 15W Midland hard-mounted radio and antenna in my Jeep instead of what I've got now.

Paul, after our exchange yesterday about the lack of power/need for extra batteries for the GXT1000 I got, I went back to the drawing board so to speak and purchased the 15 watt MXT275 with the 3db Ghost antenna. And I will use the handheld when out of my Tacoma

 

[Downs]

I'm glad we've got some smart radio folks chiming in here! My HAM/GMRS knowledge only goes so far (not far at all actually). Thanks! I'm learning stuff. Thanks for the antenna advice.

I have my HAM call sign memorized (KI7TSP), but not my GMRS. I carry copies of both licenses in my Jeep just for good measure as they have my call sign and my name on them on official(-sh) looking paperwork. Each is just a twice folded single piece of paper placed with my other radio paperwork. I guess I could just write both on a sticky note and put it in with my radio paperwork, but maybe I'm just a little OCD.

And on one of our journeys once in 2019 we were in the middle of nowhere in WA and we were contacted by a GMRS channel 15 repeater station that told us we were interfering with them. It does happen, so of course being courteous Overlanders we dropped down to channel 16 (one of the reasons I earlier put out the frequencies for each GMRS channel for folks to print out and have with them). On Overland Bound's header their default GMRS channel is 15, so that's the one I chose for us to start out on. Different parts of the country may have repeaters set to different channels. We will do our best not to interfere with any of them, and will change frequencies as needed.

If we were blasting the airwaves with a lot of watts on a GMRS channel that was interfering with a business's use of GMRS or some other entity's use, the FCC might get involved. I really don't think the FCC would ever notice or care about us out in the middle of the woods using low powered 4Watt UV-5R radios for convoy communications. So while I'm trying to stay mostly legal (make sure everyone has a GMRS license and we're being courteous using them), I'm not too worried about the UV-5R radios themselves being legal due to their low output (and low entry cost). I'm assuming (guessing?) the hard mounted and hand-held GMRS radios sold my Midland are technically legal(?). I did a quick look on their website and didn't see anything mentioning legality of their radios.

If I were starting over, I'd go with the 15W Midland hard-mounted radio and antenna in my Jeep instead of what I've got now.

If we're being realistic the FCC doesn't have the time/money and manpower to go after nearly every GMRS user, and it typically takes MANY complaints before they do anything, they're not out there patrolling like a county sheriff. But if you're mentioning being legal with the license it's at least a good idea to mention that some of the radios being talked about here aren't legal for GMRS use. Will anything ever come of it? most likely not, just something to be informed about, at the end of the day no one listening on the other side is going to be able to tell what kind of radio you are talking on.

All of the Midland FRS/GMRS radios hold Part 95 certifications. Part 95E for their GMRS stuff and Part 95 for the FRS stuff.

Their radios are fairly good but they do have some limitations such as they can't do split tones (not a huge deal but some repeaters use split tones), and they're stuck in narrowband mode. Again not a huge deal but you maysound quiet to radios set to wideband mode and they may sound loud to you.

It's good to see a group run with a preset solid comms plan.

 

[armyRN]

Paul, after our exchange yesterday about the lack of power/need for extra batteries for the GXT1000 I got, I went back to the drawing board so to speak and purchased the 15 watt MXT275 with the 3db Ghost antenna. And I will use the handheld when out of my Tacoma

Excellent! You'll be glad to have the handheld when out of your vehicle.

The small 4Watt BaoFeng UV-5R radios or the 5Watt hand-held GMRS radios (like from Midland) would be adequate for this trip (purchase a spare battery so you always have a fully charged spare) if that's all you can afford or you just want to test the waters before going "all in" on a radio. And with a single hand-held, you can use it in and out of your vehicle. I don't want anyone to not come because they don't think they have enough radio or because of cost. I'm trying to keep it simple and inexpensive on this trip - we're just using the radios for convoy communication.

Ideally (but not required at all), you'd have one radio hard-mounted in your vehicle with an external antenna (could be a UV-5R or similar like I have or one of those 15W Midland radios), and a separate hand-held for when you're out of your vehicle.

Midland sells a "Bundle" with a fixed 15W radio and two 5Watt hand-helds for around/under $200 (with discount code "2021" till 15 Jan). Or you could get two UV-5R radios, and on one have an external antenna/battery delete/separate speaker & mike/ and mount all for under/around $100.

Just remember if you're using a hand-held with a rechargeable battery, you need to bring your radio's battery charger with you, and a way to plug-in your charger (a cheap $20 inverter that plugs into your cigarette lighter outlet should do the trick).

 

[armyRN]

Happy 2021 y'all! Great to see some more interest in the trip. Looking forward to sharing the adventure with you all and learning more along the way. Also...if you have the opportunity to get the COVID-19 vaccine before the trip, please consider it. Wishing you all health and wellness for the new year. -Scott

PS: Mountain State Overland started a "Hammer Down" series on Youtube about their experience on the TAT. Check it out here.

I'm excited - lots of interest in this trip! Great conversations so far - don't lose-it and let something take over your summer to where you have to put off doing the TAT for another year. Book it now - tell yourself you're going. Let's do this!

I should be getting my COVID-19 vaccine at work sometime next week. COVID is for real folks - I too recommend getting the vaccine.

Ordered my TAT bundle, along with the Shadows and Pacific sections. All as digital files so I can download them on my computer, and then upload into GAIA. And ordered four TAT decals. Came to $120.00.

I watched the 'Hammer Down" series (1-3 at least; I don't know if they've posted a 4th yet) of them doing the initial portion of the TAT. Looked like beautiful country, and some of the "roads" they were on looked pretty challenging. It should be fun!

 

[M Rose]

It is news to me. If anyone hears anything or knows anything about this, let us know.

And yeah; $35 will buy you a BaoFeng UV-5R and a spare battery!

It’s not a surprise increase/decrease... search “Ray Balm Act 2018”. The FCC opened comment (Docket 20-270) in September and closed Coment in Early December. December 30th The FCC made its ruling and released FCC 20-184. Part 1 of Title 47 section 4 (PDF page 85) explains the new fees.

The ARRL press release can be found HERE.

 

[M Rose]

I am tentatively planning on meeting up with you guys in Colorado and finish the trip all the way into Washington.

 

[T. Stanley]

I am tentatively planning on meeting up with you guys in Colorado and finish the trip all the way into Washington.

i thought it ended in Port Orford, OR! Oh well if I’m in Washington when this trip ends, I will be that much closer to Alaska

 

[M Rose]

i thought it ended in Port Orford, OR! Oh well if I’m in Washington when this trip ends, I will be that much closer to Alaska

@armyRN is from Washington and has a leg added onto the end for his RTB. Which will put you a lot closer to Alaska.

 

[armyRN]

I got the TAT maps from Sam sometime during the night, so this afternoon I got them loaded into my GAIA account. It took a little bit of time to get all 16 maps loaded (I got the TAT bundle, so there's states we won't be driving through on this trip that I still downloaded for a later date). Lots of waypoints are marked along the way.

I didn't realize it till I got the maps loaded and started looking at it, but when we leave Ripley WV, we'll actually be heading in a south EAST direction for a bit before ultimately turning west. Interesting.

 

[T. Stanley]

I got my maps from Sam too, and I just started the process of loading them into GAIA gps

 

[T. Stanley]

I got all my TAT maps loaded into GAIA gps and WOW, this is going to be one heck of an adventure, it is impressive to see all the routes for the trip all together.