Admittedly, 75 years old, none of these guys are stock, but a few are close.
I must admit, this would be a dream trip.
I must admit, this would be a dream trip.
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Overlanding with "stock" 4X4
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Western Canada is staggeringly empty, even compared to the Inland Northwest of the US where Im at, and by most standards we are empty. I always laugh when the Canadian truckers roll into my shop and call Spokane "the big city down south".
yep, 20 minutes.... or less.
On a trail 10 minutes from home...
EDIT haha, wrong video but still 10 minutes from home. BC is big.
Heres the trail video, 10 minutes from home and out of cell service.
And Nakusp Hot Springs, 15 minutes from home, with a CMH helicopter flying past.
On a trail 10 minutes from home...
EDIT haha, wrong video but still 10 minutes from home. BC is big.
Heres the trail video, 10 minutes from home and out of cell service.
And Nakusp Hot Springs, 15 minutes from home, with a CMH helicopter flying past.
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Advocate I
And I agreed with you. I know Canada is mostly empty and vast. US is vast too but much more densely populated. A trip in Canada would be great, but my wife hates cold.. :) . For me the less people there are, the better.
I don't consider tires a mod. And I did change the stock very thin engine shield with a more solid one. But I won't go further than this as long as I can stay under GVM. And it looks like I can, easily . All the other mods are for camping only.
Pickups in Europe, and most of the rest of the world, are what you would call midsize in US, they have very small and less powerful engines than in US, not the very nice options you have there.Mostly because taxes and fuel is about 3 times more expensive than US.
What they do have going for them is the GVM/ payload, bigger than similar size US pick ups . My Hilux has a factory payload of 960 kg , about 2200 lbs. The single or extra cab ones even more.
I pack very light. I don't even have a drawer system.. too heavy . I do have a fridge slide, but a very simple and light construction.
For the rest I got a plastic box system that works ok. Yes drawers are more convenient, but I am not in rush, I am on holiday. I can still be with a everything setup including the awning with a cold one in my hand 5 min after I stop at the camp site. Maybe I would get some drawers if I would do this 6 months a year, but unfortunately I can't .
I just did a small test trip, I got everything I would normally get in a 1 month trip, except an additional 20L water Jerry can and some more clothes( not many ), some extra tools that will fit in the tool box easy.
My canopy was 1/3 empty. Must be the habit of packing for the Land cruiser Prado I used to have, not the pick up I have now :) . And we are a family of 3.
I might make a side cupboard system for the kitchen, but I am still working on the math of that.
The most heavy items I have are the 110 AGM batery who sits all the way back in the bed and fridge+fridge slide.
My point is that you can use a smaller, stock vehicle easy. With a stock 4x4 that has low range, either it is a new pick up, a 20 year old land cruiser, a jeep or what ever, enough remote beautiful places are accessible that you will need a lifetime to see it all. And with skills you can go, slower maybe but you can go in 99% of the places where modified vehicles can.
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rgallant
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This really sums it up perfectly, there are vast area's you can get to everywhere without lockers, large lifts, crazy big tires etc.
loyotadisa
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100% I agree. But on the list of mods, after 10 years with a Rubicon, the only mod which will make a massive difference to both capability and treading lightly is selectable lockers. Lifts and tires are ego, peer pressure, lockers are the invisible difference. I use my lockers often. I never use my winch. No one will know you have them.
I forget if I've chimed in here before, but my 8 cylinder 2014 GMC Sierra z71 double cab 4x4 gets BETTER fuel economy than a brand new Chevy Colorado or Toyota Taco. That's mainly because of the cylinder deactivation technology that the V8' have but the V6's dont. So it is also much more roomy and comfortable. The only issue I sometimes suffer is parking in the city, and I've already made the decision that I only go where I can park.
It has a G80 auto-locking rear diff and 18 inch rims with 265/65/18 highway tires. I'm not one who does serious offroad obstacles, so the G80 does me fine. I'm sure having selectable front and rear locking diffs on command would be much better. But the primary items I wanted to change are 1) leveling the front end with Bilstein 5100' and 2) getting a standard all terrain tire back on there like originally came with it. Something like the Goodyear Wrangler Trailrunner. Oh, and 3) I took off the front air dam under the front bumper. I did the other 2 items but still want to get the tires.
I believe in that configuration, my truck will do EVERYTHING that I want to do with it. With either the diamond deck cross box toolbox, or the Leer 180 bed cap, it will do what I like to do.
I know that society today is telling us that we "need" to get all the newest high falutin' tacti-cool weapons, tools and gear. Look at Brooks Steven's who designed one of the best Luxury 4x4's of all time, the Jeep Grand Wagoneer. A great SUV, but designed with end of life and the later purchase of a new one in mind. The "old reliables" are perfectly serviceable. I just with they would make some of the newer vehicles in the same configuration as some of the older, simpler ones
It has a G80 auto-locking rear diff and 18 inch rims with 265/65/18 highway tires. I'm not one who does serious offroad obstacles, so the G80 does me fine. I'm sure having selectable front and rear locking diffs on command would be much better. But the primary items I wanted to change are 1) leveling the front end with Bilstein 5100' and 2) getting a standard all terrain tire back on there like originally came with it. Something like the Goodyear Wrangler Trailrunner. Oh, and 3) I took off the front air dam under the front bumper. I did the other 2 items but still want to get the tires.
I believe in that configuration, my truck will do EVERYTHING that I want to do with it. With either the diamond deck cross box toolbox, or the Leer 180 bed cap, it will do what I like to do.
I know that society today is telling us that we "need" to get all the newest high falutin' tacti-cool weapons, tools and gear. Look at Brooks Steven's who designed one of the best Luxury 4x4's of all time, the Jeep Grand Wagoneer. A great SUV, but designed with end of life and the later purchase of a new one in mind. The "old reliables" are perfectly serviceable. I just with they would make some of the newer vehicles in the same configuration as some of the older, simpler ones
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I did a lot of crazy stuff off road with my old ZR2 S10. The GM factory Eaton govlock works very well out of the box. The only place it struggles (read the fly weights get sheared) is with big tires and lots of power.
Also like I have said before, I really dont miss my bobbed locked and lifted 86 Toyota. My 05 Escape actually articulates better, is more comfortable, has more power, tows better, and gets better fuel millage. Only thing it doesnt do that I did with the Toyota is rocks, and thats because I didnt care about hammering the Yote, but honestly if the Escape had good bumpers, slider, and skid plates (like my Yote did) I would run it through big rocks too.
Also like I have said before, I really dont miss my bobbed locked and lifted 86 Toyota. My 05 Escape actually articulates better, is more comfortable, has more power, tows better, and gets better fuel millage. Only thing it doesnt do that I did with the Toyota is rocks, and thats because I didnt care about hammering the Yote, but honestly if the Escape had good bumpers, slider, and skid plates (like my Yote did) I would run it through big rocks too.
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That's interesting. I have an 08 Escape with 4 wheel drive. I've often thought about how it would do if it was raised up about 6" and could get rid of a bunch of fiberglass front and rear. I think there would be too much expense and not enough after market goodies to make it a reliable off road rig.
Rumbledawg:
Billiebob stated his opinion with some anecdotal information to back up what he says is the more important equipment - the lockers. Rather than responding like you've just taken a beek to the chest and attack him, can you tell the less off-road experienced among us why it is you think the lift and tires are more important than the lockers?
I for one would be interested in knowing what constructive details you would have to say about it, so I can form a better opinion what mods to do, and what mods not to bother with. And I'm sure there are others who would like to know. And just reading you bash him doesnt tell us "why."
Ok, but your answer is still mainly describing a fight between you and Billiebob rather than informing the rest of us why you think just a lift and bigger wheels is better than just lockers front and rear.
That's what I'm looking to know.
I've got a stock GMC Sierra with an Eaton G80 in the back. In your opinion, if I could choose only one..., would I be better off installing a front locker and maybe an on-demandear locker, like Billiebon says, or would I be better off getting larger wheels/tires under my level like you seem to advocate. And why?
That's what I'm looking to know.
I've got a stock GMC Sierra with an Eaton G80 in the back. In your opinion, if I could choose only one..., would I be better off installing a front locker and maybe an on-demandear locker, like Billiebon says, or would I be better off getting larger wheels/tires under my level like you seem to advocate. And why?
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Well I wouldn’t say it was really just a fight between Billy Bob and him he said the same thing about my Xterra when I put bigger tires on it or really any vehicle that someone wants to put larger tires on And always responds that putting 35s on a vehicle will destroy the ride which going along with the other response shows that maybe he put a spacer lift on a short arm suspension and it destroyed the way it drove. Who knows but I can guarantee you anytime there’s a question about tire size you’ll see a post about how the skinny tires are better and it’ll be the same pictures of his jeep . One in the shop with the tires on the ground and the other with it towing a trailer . I know everybody is allowed their opinion and that is the point of these discussions But I do think there is a lot of “If it’s Not stock you are dumb and don’t know what your doing “ that goes on in the overlanding community
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Oh and when people say “ well I have ___ rig with _____ tires and have never been stuck “ is absolutely the dumbest statement on the face of the earth. You can get stuck on a gravel driveway with lockers and the best tires in the world If things just go a little more wrong than the tires can gain traction on . Heck tanks and excavators get stuck and they have tracks So anything can get stuck no matter how well-built and equipped it is
Thunder,
If you are doing the technical off-road type trails, an LSD front, 2ish inch lift, and some 33s if you can. A lift and bigger tires give better articulation, ground clearance, and ride. The Gov bombs (g80) is going to do 99% of what you will probably be doing. And truth be told work pretty damn good. Torsen LSD for the front would be a decent upgrade to boot.
If you are rock crawling...lift tires, selectable lockers.
I have found a stock rig with upgraded tires and a locker will do 99% of what I want to do.
Happy trails
Thank you for that, Capn' Stout. I'd rather get that kind of information instead of watching potshots be thrown back and forth like a tennis match without much real info to be gained. I guess that what I was trying to wrangle out of Rumbledawg but he didnt bite and take the informative road. He did bite into the argument road, but what can I say
rgallant
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@ThundahBeagle On one point @Billiebob is correct on just slapping a set up big heavy tires on is not a solution to anything and is in many cases ego, the look at my cool truck thing. Think mall crawlers
A few points
reference article Jeep Wrangler Axle Upgrades: How To Make Your Jeep Axles Survive
As to weights I run a Cooper St/Maxx LT in 245/75/16 at 49lbs a tire if I go up to a 70 and leave everything the same that adds 5 lbs per tire or 10 pounds per axle and I am l already 15 - 20lbs over per axle for the recommended size.
A few points
- Weight is an issue big tires weight more and put more stress on axles, drive train, power output to the tires (gearing) and suspension - in many cases some or all of those components may need upgrades
- Wider tires are "generally better" but there is a limit where you go too wide for the weight of the vehicle and you actually get too little ground pressure (not usually an issue for us)
- Body work may need to adjusted cut and fixes
- too often bigger tire are used to substitute for technique resulting in broken drive trains because point one was not addressed
- Finally the maker of the vehicle specifies a tire size for best general performance larger or smaller will impact that
reference article Jeep Wrangler Axle Upgrades: How To Make Your Jeep Axles Survive
As to weights I run a Cooper St/Maxx LT in 245/75/16 at 49lbs a tire if I go up to a 70 and leave everything the same that adds 5 lbs per tire or 10 pounds per axle and I am l already 15 - 20lbs over per axle for the recommended size.
Ok. Sensible. So a locker isnt going to add any more stress to your gearing or drivetrain, whereas blindly upsizing wheels and tires will. And the lockers can obviously help more with actual traction than just a bigger tire of the same type.
So, presumably the larger tires and lift have some other benefit other than looks, such as clearance and approach/ depart angles. The question is when will the larger tires over stress the gearing vs what type of clearance can be achieved
So, presumably the larger tires and lift have some other benefit other than looks, such as clearance and approach/ depart angles. The question is when will the larger tires over stress the gearing vs what type of clearance can be achieved
This article gets it right, IMO, and bears repeating: ten_commandments_of_overland_vehicle_modifications
