Overland Communication Overview

[Corrie]

Corrie submitted an Article on the main site!

Overland Communication Overview

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By: Isaac Marchionna​

@lawndartdesign​

Stay Connected - No Matter Where You...

Continue reading the Original Blog Post.

 

[BAJAJULIO]

Good article. Nice Yaesu. Purchased the Garmin orange in reach for use in the Central Asia Rally and it worked great. Many usefull and security functions that nobody else has. Tracking function and mapping system on your smart device was great. Must register for satellite service ....but easy...affordable...and more.

 

[Jimmy P]

Awesome article! This came at the perfect time for me. I'm getting ready to dig into a significant electrical project on my rig, and it will include working on my comms.

I have to wonder why GMRS hasn't picked up. Not that I know anything about it, but at 50 watts and a pay to play license, it seems like it could be easy to get into longer range communications prior to moving into ham. It could simply be because many of us already have the CB, and HAMs are the next biggest thing in the area.

 

[Nya Reyes]

I learned some new things from the article. Coming from Jeep rock crawling in my younger days I'm accustomed to seeing CB's on trail runs where everyone is bunched together. I own a Cobra CB radio simply because I favor the brand and enjoy listening to long haul truckers during road trips. I still have a lot to learn about what's available to the general public. I'm not familiar with HAM radio use but have used similar communications while in the military. My ideal starting point would be CB for short range communications and satellite for emergency long range communications.

 

[stage7]

It's a good read. I've been toying with what comms I should be getting. I've started with a Cobra 75 WX ST because of the price point. Just starting to learn about GMRS and Hamm.

 

[Northernlady]

Has anyone used the SPOT device- A satellite tracker device that sends regular signals and also has an SOS function? I am thinking of getting one just because I do head out on my own (i refuse to sit around because there is no one else to go with). Just wondering if it is worth the money. it can be found at www.findmespot.ca (or .com in US)

 

[Steve]

Has anyone used the SPOT device

I think we have a couple of members use Spot. I've looked at both the Spot and InReach, but haven't done either, yet.

Initially, the Spot is a cheaper option, with a lower cost of entry. But the subscription runs all year, whether you are on an adventure or it is in a drawer. The InReach cost more up front, but they offer a subscription option that you can turn on and off a month at a time. I'd have to do the numbers again, but I think I remember that, assuming I use the InReach two months, I would break even in a bit over two years. From then on, the InReach would be the cheaper option.

If I lived somewhere that had more, closer adventuring options, that might be different. I tend to take one or two ~month long trips a year instead of several weekend trips.

 

[Northernlady]

I think we have a couple of members use Spot. I've looked at both the Spot and InReach, but haven't done either, yet.

Initially, the Spot is a cheaper option, with a lower cost of entry. But the subscription runs all year, whether you are on an adventure or it is in a drawer. The InReach cost more up front, but they offer a subscription option that you can turn on and off a month at a time. I'd have to do the numbers again, but I think I remember that, assuming I use the InReach two months, I would break even in a bit over two years. From then on, the InReach would be the cheaper option.

If I lived somewhere that had more, closer adventuring options, that might be different. I tend to take one or two ~month long trips a year instead of several weekend trips.

Thanks Steve! I will look into InReach and compare. I do travel regularly for work and many areas have no cell service so the year round subscription is not necessarily a bad thing

 

[VociferousSky]

I've been an Amateur Radio Operator since I was 14, since around 1987. I was a geek before it was cool. Ha ha.

Just a few things to mention, for the benefit of all:

1. HAM isn't an acronym, by the way. You don't need to capitalize it. Ham is just slang for Amateur Radio Operator. There are stories of why that is, but none are proven. I like to "ham it up" aka "talk a lot", so that definition works for me.
2. I'm also surprised GMRS hasn't really taken off. Last I looked it was something like $65/5yrs per family which means all your vehicles can have GMRS radios in them. You can do fancy things with GMRS like build repeaters, which extends communications significantly. And you can have heavy duty, commercial radios, which high output power and good external antennas, which are all game changers. You can also share frequencies with those folks that are just carrying little FRS radios around. They may still have a hard time getting to you, but you can easily get out to them. I think GMRS should be the primary trail rig and frequencies. It's catching on, but CB is hard to dislodge from the culture.
3. CB is limited to 5 watts which means there isn't much output power. And given the frequency, antenna size on a vehicle is going to hamper the ability to really do well on CB frequencies for "mid" distances. AND CB frequencies, to do well, are really, really dependent on the sun spot cycle, oddly enough, which is why CB was super popular in the 70's (high point in the 11year sun spot cycle) and why they pretty much suck now (low point). There are more technical reasons why CB is aweful, but I guess if you can hear the other person and they can hear you, to each their own.
4. Ham radio is kind of overkill for trail communications, but not if you want to do fun radio things once your'e on a mountain top. There was a year long "event" in 2016 called National Parks On The Air. People would drive out to a national park, set up a temporary station for the day and see how many people they could contact. This is with a small, but very capable ham radio that operated on many frequencies and typically with 100 watts or less, intu a portable antenna. You can talk across the country easily on many frequencies and a portable antenna. You can't call someone specifically, unless you both agree to be on that frequency at that time, but if you just want general, or emergency long distance communications (with some limitations), ham radio is the way to go. The only thing two people need is radios and an antenna. Easy.
5. Studying to get a license for ham radio is trivial, but you will want to learn a little about electronics. With the entry license ($15 and then take a test), you can talk on a few different frequency "bands" including those most commonly used for offroad adventures: 2m and 70cm (refers to the length of the radio frequency, 2 meters and 70 centimeters, ~145mhz, just above the FM radio band, and ~440mhz). You can also talk on 10m (28mhz) which is in the same neighborhood as the CB frequencies. 10m is also not good right now because of low sun spots.

I'm president of the local amateur radio club in Maple Valley, WA. Ask me anything, happy to help.

Chris
Ham radio (FCC issued) call sign: KA0ZRW
GMRS call sign: WQXR317
Maple Valley, WA

2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport, manual, 4" OME lift, JKS adjustable trackbars front and back, JKS sway bar quick disconnects, on 33's.

 

[stage7]

I've been an Amateur Radio Operator since I was 14, since around 1987. I was a geek before it was cool. Ha ha.

Just a few things to mention, for the benefit of all:

1. HAM isn't an acronym, by the way. You don't need to capitalize it. Ham is just slang for Amateur Radio Operator. There are stories of why that is, but none are proven. I like to "ham it up" aka "talk a lot", so that definition works for me.
2. I'm also surprised GMRS hasn't really taken off. Last I looked it was something like $65/5yrs per family which means all your vehicles can have GMRS radios in them. You can do fancy things with GMRS like build repeaters, which extends communications significantly. And you can have heavy duty, commercial radios, which high output power and good external antennas, which are all game changers. You can also share frequencies with those folks that are just carrying little FRS radios around. They may still have a hard time getting to you, but you can easily get out to them. I think GMRS should be the primary trail rig and frequencies. It's catching on, but CB is hard to dislodge from the culture.
3. CB is limited to 5 watts which means there isn't much output power. And given the frequency, antenna size on a vehicle is going to hamper the ability to really do well on CB frequencies for "mid" distances. AND CB frequencies, to do well, are really, really dependent on the sun spot cycle, oddly enough, which is why CB was super popular in the 70's (high point in the 11year sun spot cycle) and why they pretty much suck now (low point). There are more technical reasons why CB is aweful, but I guess if you can hear the other person and they can hear you, to each their own.
4. Ham radio is kind of overkill for trail communications, but not if you want to do fun radio things once your'e on a mountain top. There was a year long "event" in 2016 called National Parks On The Air. People would drive out to a national park, set up a temporary station for the day and see how many people they could contact. This is with a small, but very capable ham radio that operated on many frequencies and typically with 100 watts or less, intu a portable antenna. You can talk across the country easily on many frequencies and a portable antenna. You can't call someone specifically, unless you both agree to be on that frequency at that time, but if you just want general, or emergency long distance communications (with some limitations), ham radio is the way to go. The only thing two people need is radios and an antenna. Easy.
5. Studying to get a license for ham radio is trivial, but you will want to learn a little about electronics. With the entry license ($15 and then take a test), you can talk on a few different frequency "bands" including those most commonly used for offroad adventures: 2m and 70cm (refers to the length of the radio frequency, 2 meters and 70 centimeters, ~145mhz, just above the FM radio band, and ~440mhz). You can also talk on 10m (28mhz) which is in the same neighborhood as the CB frequencies. 10m is also not good right now because of low sun spots.

I'm president of the local amateur radio club in Maple Valley, WA. Ask me anything, happy to help.

Chris
Ham radio (FCC issued) call sign: KA0ZRW
GMRS call sign: WQXR317
Maple Valley, WA

2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport, manual, 4" OME lift, JKS adjustable trackbars front and back, JKS sway bar quick disconnects, on 33's.

Thank you Chris,
That was a very informative post. I'll definitely be asking you questions. So, due to the position of the sun spots you're basically saying that CB is not going to be great, period, until sun spots are in a different position? Other than trail comms with people next to you. Do you have any suggestions for what or where to learn about the Ham radio. (ie. websites/books) I'm a complete newb so forgive all the dumb questions.

 

[Craig Cooper]

As a Ham, I enjoyed your article. In my main Jeep I keep cb, 2m ham, 1 yeasu ht, 1 baofeng ht and a pair of family handhelds. If all that fails, I'll light the jeep on Fire and use smoke signals.

 

[ChuckB]

I just recently started getting interesting in comms. Thanks for all the great info!!

 

[Road]

What a great thread, started by @lawndartdesign's (@LawnDart ?) article, with some terrific add'l info from @Steve and @VociferousSky .

I've been a CB user for decades, though radio stuff started for me with as a little kid with my Dad's Grundig console that had SW I and SW II, then a Heathkit SW radio of my own. Now I want to fit my rig with good comms for both safety on solo runs and communication for small group gatherings.

Currently have a CB with NOAA channels, BaoFeng BF-F8HP (UV-5R 3rd Gen) 8-Watt Dual Band, and a Garmin Inreach. Looking at the Yaesu dual band and Icom 5100, though am far from making a decision on those as yet.

Looking forward to see how this thread develops.

 

[VociferousSky]

Thank you Chris,
That was a very informative post. I'll definitely be asking you questions. So, due to the position of the sun spots you're basically saying that CB is not going to be great, period, until sun spots are in a different position? Other than trail comms with people next to you. Do you have any suggestions for what or where to learn about the Ham radio. (ie. websites/books) I'm a complete newb so forgive all the dumb questions.

What's strange about how CB (26.9650 MHz to 27.4050 MHz) works compared to how hams use the 10m band (28.000 MHz – 29.700 MHz) is that a ham would never try to use 10m for local or close communications. It really doesn't work that well for close comms, and neither does CB, as I'm sure we've all experienced.

Sun spots create affects in our atmosphere that allow the CB/10m signals to get reflected back to travel further.

To learn about ham radio, and getting licensed, there's a bunch of options, depending on how you want to approach it:

• You could check out some YouTube videos. (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=introduction+to+ham+radio) There's a number of introduction to ham radio videos that each take a different perspective on the topic. I'm a fan of taking a few in and then making my own judgement calls on what makes sense to me and what doesn't.
• Find a ham and chat him/her up. Odds are there are hams in an overlanding group you may come across, in one of the local offroad groups, or just in your neighborhood. Most hams would love to talk more about the hobby one on one. Or, hey, this forum is a good way to ask questions and get familiar.
• Depending on timing, you could hit up a local ham radio club. (http://www.arrl.org/find-a-club) This one is kind of risky, though, you just never know what the club "culture" is going to be like. Like any group, there are personalities that can dominate a conversation and end up really turning people off, or on, to the hobby. I think it's worth trying though, and maybe you even have a few clubs to choose from in the area. I like our club, ha ha, but I know that there has to be a match, and there isn't always.
• Every June is national Field Day, (http://www.arrl.org/field-day) which is an event that puts hams in local parks, typically, operating temporary, off grid (again, typically) radio stations. These are typically put on by clubs, and they're usually measuring the success of those temporary stations by trying to get as many contacts from as many places as possible. The event last 24 hours and people are typically operating that entire time. It's a lot of fun! In many clubs, including my own, we hold it in a park so that way we can interact with folks that aren't hams to help educate folks on the many benefits and fun that can be had in this technical and social hobby.
• Use the ARRL.org website. (http://www.arrl.org/what-is-ham-radio) The ARRL is a national amateur radio advocacy group that does a pretty good job at both supporting the hobby, and advocating for the hobby in Washington DC, which is critical, since radio frequency spectrum is limited and finite, and commercial interests are always looking to do something new and creative and trying to step on those frequencies that are allocated to amateur radio.

Alright, I should probably stop and folks take this in, and ask questions. I can go on and on and...well you get the point.

Happy to help and/or answer where I can.
Chris
Edited: to add links

 

[VociferousSky]

Images of my setup:
The Jeep, as it sits.

Daily ham radio antenna on the driver's side. A Comet 2x4SR. Great if you aren't going through close-in trails. I have a Comet SSB-1 that goes on if I do plan to go down trails. The 2x4SR is wideband receive and transmit, so I can use it on GMRS too. Connected to the Icom ID-5100.

Obligatory, spare tire mount (Evo) CB antenna, a Firestick, on a quick disconnect mount. Not typically on the Jeep since I can't get it in the garage when I do. :-)

The shorty GMRS antennas. I swap this out for a larger one to get better range when I need to.

Here's a shot of where the ID-5100 control head is mounted. I'll have to get another picture with it actually on there, ha ha. This is a 3d printed (from a friend) mount I found out on one of those 3d plan websites. Works pretty well so far. I had this mounted on a glass mount cell phone holder, which worked too.

 

[OffroadTreks]

ancy things with GMRS like build repeaters, which extends communications significantly. And you can have heavy duty, commercial radios, which high output power and good external antennas, which are all game changers. You can also

I would have put GMRS above CB in this article. The reality is CB is a step up from a walkie talkie, not the other way around. CB audio quality is pretty poor compared to GMRS and has a limited power output. It's everywhere only because the radios are dirt cheap, and people don't know any better, and everyone uses them right?

But if we want to educate people on better options, I think GMRS is the strongest contender for OVERLAND communications in general. As stated, a license covers a whole household.

But not only that, most HAM radios can do FRS & GMRS channels. This makes it a great intro tool to HAM communications, as long as you follow some basic rules.

Several of the ham operators in my group used FRS/GMRS overlap channels to lead a 10 day group in Moab. This allowed people without licenses to pick up cheap FRS handhelds and still have coms with the group. A few people had the wonderful Boafeng handhelds and a one person had a dedicated GMRS radio. While several others had full ham setups.

Everyone in our group with a variety of gear was able to communicate and hear each other. You can't do that with a CB.

 

[aearles]

"Normal non-repeated radio-to-radio can hit ranges of 90-100 miles away depending on power (based on using a 50 watt mobile aka vehicle mounted unit)."

This is simply inaccurate, you may want to consider revising this.

Here's an excellent article explaining radio horizon for LOS dependent bands:
http://www.hamradioschool.com/how-far-can-i-talk-with-my-radio/

 

[VociferousSky]

When I lived on the flat Northern Plains, and the repeater was on a 1000ft tower, 75 miles was possible. Not typical because it's highly dependent on 1) terrain, 2) receiving radio/antenna configuration, 3) transmitting radio/antenna, as you pointed out, but possible.

 

[aearles]

When I lived on the flat Northern Plains, and the repeater was on a 1000ft tower, 75 miles was possible. Not typical because it's highly dependent on 1) terrain, 2) receiving radio/antenna configuration, 3) transmitting radio/antenna, as you pointed out, but possible.

Exactly. I should have quoted more context:

"Normal non-repeated radio-to-radio can hit ranges of 90-100 miles away depending on power (based on using a 50 watt mobile aka vehicle mounted unit). Whereas the use of a repeater can double that range depending on geography."

Simplex or non-repeated VHF/UHF between two vehicles is more like 5-10 miles max. To get 90 miles simplex, one radio would need to be at about 4000' higher elevation with otherwise unobstructed line of sight to the other.


Sent from my iPhone using OB Talk

 

[Geisterbild]

Awesome timing, I have a CB radio installed in my Jeep, and have begun taking some practice tests and exams for a HAM radio lisence. What are your thoughts on the Yaesu? I have been looking for a non-handheld HAM radio. Also what antennas do you use/recommend (if any).