Member Survey: Priorities

Kelly

Kelly

US Full-time/Long Term Travel Member Rep
Launch Member

Traveler III

4,002
Rapid City, South Dakota, United States
First Name
Kelly
Last Name
Herrin
Member #

2032

Ham/GMRS Callsign
KFØDEX
In general, when it comes to "getting places others can't" (without assistance), how would you prioritize these elements?

(Listed here in no particular order)

Ground Clearance
Tire Height
Tire Width
Tire Tread
Articulation
Lockers
Horse Power
Torque
Driving Skills
Other _________
 
  • Like
Reactions: pwhumberto
Driving skill
Ground clearance
Lockers
Articulation
Tire tread
Tire height
Torque
Tired width

Other: Relative to application.

What classifies as a (lot) of suspension articulation for a Subaru forester or whatever will certainly be different than say a FZJ or pretty much any solid axle rig.

I used my priorities for the 4runner. I have been a fullsize wheeler about 8 years now... and a mud slinger before that. And i can tell you that my 4runner is more capable
in its current form than my driving skill can satisfy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly and ce4460
IronPercheron said:
Driving skill
Ground clearance
Lockers
Articulation
Tire tread
Tire height
Torque
Tired width

Other: Relative to application.

What classifies as a (lot) of suspension articulation for a Subaru forester or whatever will certainly be different than say a FZJ or pretty much any solid axle rig.

I used my priorities for the 4runner. I have been a fullsize wheeler about 8 years now... and a mud slinger before that. And i can tell you that my 4runner is more capable
in its current form than my driving skill can satisfy.
Click to expand...
I recognize how important driving skills are, but I can't help but think a beginning driver could get further in my rig, than an expert driver could in a stock ZJ.
 
I recently put a beginner driver in my rig. He did okay with coaching, but some of the lines he wanted to take were going to risk a rollover, others were far too conservative. He also didn't have the finesse necessary to smoothly navigate a very rocky trail and ended up smashing the rig down on the sliders with a very hard hit. Fortunately, the armor did its job and prevented any damage to the vehicle. At the same time, I've taken a Honda Civic up a washed out road with two SUVs, both of which got stuck due to inexperience and lack of skill while I was able to drive through on my line just fine. Driver skill also includes knowing when to throw in the towel and not take unnecessary chances.

Driving Skill
Tire Tread (including rubber compound)
Ground Clearance (including approach, departure, and breakover angles)
Articulation and/or Lockers (you can give up one, but not both)
Tire height
Torque
Armor - Rock sliders and skids. You can go a lot farther if you aren't worried about a single rock disabling your vehicle or causing expensive panel damage.
Horsepower
Winch
Tire Width
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly
TreXTerra said:
I recently put a beginner driver in my rig. He did okay with coaching, but some of the lines he wanted to take were going to risk a rollover, others were far too conservative. He also didn't have the finesse necessary to smoothly navigate a very rocky trail and ended up smashing the rig down on the sliders with a very hard hit. Fortunately, the armor did its job and prevented any damage to the vehicle. At the same time, I've taken a Honda Civic up a washed out road with two SUVs, both of which got stuck due to inexperience and lack of skill while I was able to drive through on my line just fine. Driver skill also includes knowing when to throw in the towel and not take unnecessary chances.

Driving Skill
Tire Tread (including rubber compound)
Ground Clearance (including approach, departure, and breakover angles)
Articulation and/or Lockers (you can give up one, but not both)
Tire height
Torque
Armor - Rock sliders and skids. You can go a lot farther if you aren't worried about a single rock disabling your vehicle or causing expensive panel damage.
Horsepower
Winch
Tire Width
Click to expand...
One of the things that inspired me to ask the question, was watching vehicles with minimal articulation. The only time you need lockers is when a wheel looses traction (coming off the ground would qualify ;-). So, one could make the argument that a vehicle that has poor articulation, needs lockers more than a vehicle that can keep all four wheels on the ground. Thoughts?

P.S. I left winch off the list because you can pull a dumpster up the trail if you needed to :-)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: pwhumberto and jdunk
Yes, I would make that argument. A vehicle with poor articulation will be immobilized or unable to continue much sooner without lockers. These days there are also various traction control systems that can overcome this fault, but they use the braking system to operate which can result in premature brake wear and even brake failure and overheating on the trail (even when going up hill).

A locker is also valuable to stabilize the vehicle, on very steep and loose descents I will engage my locker to help keep the back from sliding sideways if one wheel looses traction. It also helps keep the rear from locking up and skidding if you are using the brakes on that descent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2ndGenFlip and Kelly
@TreXTerra is right

my runner has A-trac. when a wheel goes for a high five the ABS pumps it and forces the other wheel to turn... like lockers.. it has both impressed and intimidated me a few times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly
Driving Skills
Other (Ham radio for emergency communications)
Other (Tools & repair supplies)
Tire Tread
Other (Skid Plates/Armor)
Ground Clearance
-Tire Height
-Suspension​
Lockers
Torque
Articulation
Tire Width
Horse Power
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly
My top ten list....
1) Reliable vehicle with the right gear (food, water, tools, recovery gear) and solid pre-planning for the adventure
2) Driving Skills with the right attitude...sense of adventure
3) Good tires...or should I say, good tires for the right application, tread, height, width pending on the need
4) Winch
5) Ground Clearance
6) Lockers
7) Articulation
8) Torque
9) Horse Power
10) Reliable communication
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly
1. Safety and recovery gear. This includes tools and spares. First aid, water and extra fuel

2. Tires. First step in traction after all. Always carry a spare

3. Driving skills. This includes making good judgement calls. Knowing your rigs capabilities, etc

4. Lockers. They are awesome. Nuff said

5. Armor. Skid plates and rock sliders. Protect your baby

6. Ground clearance. Makes a difference


I feel that engine power is really not important in getting places others can't. Articulation becomes less important with ground clearance, lockers and armor. A lot of new Independent suspension rigs out there are really capable rigs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly
fj80toyman said:
I would just throw in here that Driving Skill is paramount.

Driving Skill = 7/10ths Experience, 2/10ths Cajones, 1/10 Ego

All else can be purchased on day one.

Dan.
Click to expand...
True, driving skills are the only thing you can't purchase. Love how you put it that way
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly
Driving Skills Because with these, the odds are always in your favor
OTHER: Self Recover skills Because when the odds don't fall in your favor, you want to be able to still move past what ever the obstical is
Articulation Because when your keep your tires on the ground it helps to go forward or backward and reduces the feeling that you need your locker.
OTHER: Armor/Skids Because when your tires just won't touch the ground. You'd rather the ground not touch your transmition, transfercase, oil pan... ect...
Ground Clearance Because even though they can, you would rather the above not touch anything
Tire Height Kind of redundant... Goes with ground clearance
Tire Width Kind of redundant... Goes with Ground Clearance
Tire Tread Because no matter the terrain, if you have good tread on the tires, and they are touching the ground, odds are something is going to move.
Lockers Nice to have but makes it really easy to damage things... Not saying they are bad. But, they are in my opinion a last resort just before winching. You should be able to get over just about anything without them.
Torque Nice to have, but doesn't make a good driver.
Horse Power Wheel spin only damages things!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly, TheMcCalls and ColoradoPacific
There are times that horsepower is the answer, certain snowy, muddy, or sandy conditions just need to be paddled through. These times are rare and if there is a rock, root, or something unforeseen, you can really damage things. But with the right care, skill, and scouting, HP can sometimes be the difference between winching and driving out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly and VCeXpedition
TreXTerra said:
There are times that horsepower is the answer, certain snowy, muddy, or sandy conditions just need to be paddled through. These times are rare and if there is a rock, root, or something unforeseen, you can really damage things. But with the right care, skill, and scouting, HP can sometimes be the difference between winching and driving out.
Click to expand...

you start spinning too much in snow & you're done
there is a certain heat transfer that happens between the tire & snow
use low gear, go slow & steady
IMHO lockers are a must, most 4x4s only apply power to the right front tire & the left rear otherwise
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly
Lots of good answers here. In my case, I'd have torque fairly high up the list. My Outback had good ground clearance at 10.25", adequate tires with oversized Geolandar A/T-S, and computer controlled traction. (I'll leave my lack of off-road driving skills out, because it never came into play.) But when I'd come to places where I needed to crawl slowly, up hill, over obstacles, I was done. A manual transmission geared fairly high, and a turbo engine are not made to crawl, so I was either going too fast for conditions, or constantly slipping the clutch.

The solution was getting a new 4Runner. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly, RaggedViking and TheMcCalls
I have to echo what a few folks have already said here: driving skills are paramount. You need to know how to approach and react to a scenario the right way - or you're going to ruin your vehicle or get hurt.
The other important factor is to make sure that you're self-reliant; even in a group. I can't stress how important it is to have core essentials for off-roading, overlanding, and general survival - as well as cash. Cash is king when you're in a jam out on random farmland. $20 goes a long way with a farmer and his Kubota!

Otherwise, I rely on some knobby tires, Maxtrax, and a good come-along.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kelly, VCeXpedition and TheMcCalls
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom