martin_j001's adventure-wagon

[Kaiser]

Hey Jeff! Are you moving on from the TerrainContacts? While I'd love the look and extra off-road grip of KO2s, I just can't justify their extra noise and weight considering the vast majority of my driving (especially while not camping or otherwise on vacation) is on-road. As for the G015s, from what I've read they seem to be in the same class as the TerrainContacts, albeit with somewhat poorer reviews on sites like Tire Rack.

The Continentals have proven to be more than capable while doing mild off-roading. How was your experience with them? Mine are about due to be replaced too, and I'm really considering sticking with them. What's really sold me on them is their wet performance. Even worn down about 3/4 of the way through their usable tread, they shockingly remain one of the best rain tires I've ever had, and that was a hugely welcome change from the Hankook Dynapros I had on previously.
- Kai

 

[JCWages]

I had the TerrainContacts for a short time and the G015s for about 10k. Both are great street tires with excellent wet weather traction. The G015s blew me away with their wet grip even in a pickup with an empty bed. Their off-road traction was adequate and got me through a couple of tough trails but when things got loose you really noticed their lack of tread spacing and depth. I liked them so much I put a set on my wife's '17 CRV to give her more confidence in snow around our hilly winding neighborhood. The TerrainContacts would have been my first choice for her car but the G015s offer better snow traction. The Conti doesn't rate as well in snow.

That said, I swapped the G015s for Wildpeak AT3Ws and the only thing the G015s do better is ride a little smoother. Noise is about the same (P-metric to P-metric). The KO2s are much more similar to the Wildpeaks than the G015s. If you need more off-road traction then the KO2 and Wildpeak are your next step up. The Wildpeak has much better wet traction though. I put about 8k miles on a set of P-metrics then swapped to Es. Both sets have been very durable and offer outstanding traction for an AT.

 

[martin_j001]

Hey Jeff! Are you moving on from the TerrainContacts? While I'd love the look and extra off-road grip of KO2s, I just can't justify their extra noise and weight considering the vast majority of my driving (especially while not camping or otherwise on vacation) is on-road. As for the G015s, from what I've read they seem to be in the same class as the TerrainContacts, albeit with somewhat poorer reviews on sites like Tire Rack.

The Continentals have proven to be more than capable while doing mild off-roading. How was your experience with them? Mine are about due to be replaced too, and I'm really considering sticking with them. What's really sold me on them is their wet performance. Even worn down about 3/4 of the way through their usable tread, they shockingly remain one of the best rain tires I've ever had, and that was a hugely welcome change from the Hankook Dynapros I had on previously.
- Kai

So I've had some uneven wear, and what seems like fast wear with mine. I've been running about 35/33psi in them for the most part (cold). Been keeping a closer eye on alignment lately as well, so that certainly contributes to the uneven wear part. But at around 20k on them, I'm down to less than 7/32 on all tires... Would be interested to hear what pressures you run yours at and what your wear rate has been like. I too spend most of my time on the road, so switching to K02's isn't ideal, but at this point I'm not quite sure what to do (still have an untouched Terrain Contact on the spare too, so only having to buy 4 would be nice, versus 5).

 

[Kaiser]

The TerrainContacts would have been my first choice for her car but the G015s offer better snow traction. The Conti doesn't rate as well in snow.

That's good info; thanks, man. Maybe the Wildpeaks are a good middle point between the road-friendly TCs or G015s and the off-road focused KO2s. I'll do more research on that.

Yeah, I noticed that about the TerrainContacts' snow traction reviews, and was a little surprised by it. I've driven on them through some heavy snowstorms, and they are significantly better than the Hankook Dynapros I had on previously. They pale, of course, in comparison to the (as of last winter) brand-new Altimax Arctics 12s that I'd put on my wife's Forester. I suppose it's telling that when a friend of hers got stuck 20 miles away in a particularly bad snowstorm that I took the Forester to go get her, not the Outback. Still, driving sensibly (and with decades of snow driving experience under my belt), I've never felt in danger with the Continentals.

Now having said all of that...

So I've had some uneven wear, and what seems like fast wear with mine. I've been running about 35/33psi in them for the most part (cold). Been keeping a closer eye on alignment lately as well, so that certainly contributes to the uneven wear part. But at around 20k on them, I'm down to less than 7/32 on all tires... Would be interested to hear what pressures you run yours at and what your wear rate has been like. I too spend most of my time on the road, so switching to K02's isn't ideal, but at this point I'm not quite sure what to do (still have an untouched Terrain Contact on the spare too, so only having to buy 4 would be nice, versus 5).

...I agree with you, Jeff, about the wear on the TCs (which I keep at the same pressures as you). There's *no* way I can keep them on for another winter given their current tread depth. I put them on my Outback in December of 2017 and, while they're still great in the dry and wet (a function of whatever excellent compound they use, I'm sure), by the time I would've switched to my snows on my previous cars (all turbo Subarus) in late October, I figure the tread will be dangerously low for ANY conditions. That's fewer than two years on a set of tires, during which I put maybe 22-25,000 miles on the car. I chalked the wear up to my on-road driving style (which, maybe embarrassingly, hasn't changed much since I switched from my STi) and the fact that I now don't spread the wear load over two sets of wheels in a given year (summers and snows).

But I now remember an early review of the TerrainContacts where it mentioned that their rolling resistance seemed much greater than other tires in their class. I think the sticky compound that makes their dry and wet traction so good also makes them wear faster, and the extra rolling resistance would also explain my decreased mileage (compared to my previous A/Ts, not regular tires).

So, CN: Yes, regardless of their very high treadwear rating (680), they seem like they'll be shot in under two years. The question is whether I should see that as a negative, or just consider them a necessary consumable like brake pads or engine oil that, OTHER than wear, perform their designated function very well.

 

[Kaiser]

Oh and regarding this, Jeff:

(still have an untouched Terrain Contact on the spare too, so only having to buy 4 would be nice, versus 5).

I don't know if it's been obvious in my pics or not, but when I replaced the Dynapros I kept the unused spare as is (see attached pics from a January trip to Vermont, speaking of snow). My rationale was this: Since the Hankooks are a slightly smaller diameter than the Continentals because the former are 235/65 17 and the latter are 245/65 17, I figured that, as the TCs wore (which we now know is pretty quickly ), their diameter would reduce down closer to the diameter of my spare. That would keep my diffs happy in the event that I ever need to briefly drive on my spare.

If I didn't do it that way, I felt that there'd be a risk of putting a single larger tire on the car at some point in the future as my regular 4 tires wore down. I've owned nothing but Subarus since 2001, and it's always been pounded into my head that the diameter of all 4 wheels needs to be very, very close in order to preserve the differentials. It's why I obsessively stick to a rotation schedule, too.

 

[JCWages]

That's good info; thanks, man. Maybe the Wildpeaks are a good middle point between the road-friendly TCs or G015s and the off-road focused KO2s. I'll do more research on that.

Yeah, I noticed that about the TerrainContacts' snow traction reviews, and was a little surprised by it. I've driven on them through some heavy snowstorms, and they are significantly better than the Hankook Dynapros I had on previously. They pale, of course, in comparison to the (as of last winter) brand-new Altimax Arctics 12s that I'd put on my wife's Forester. I suppose it's telling that when a friend of hers got stuck 20 miles away in a particularly bad snowstorm that I took the Forester to go get her, not the Outback. Still, driving sensibly (and with decades of snow driving experience under my belt), I've never felt in danger with the Continentals.

Now having said all of that...

I'm not sure if they have the Wildpeak in a size you need as I have not read much about them on Subaru forums. Seems everyone uses KO2s or G015s but that could be due to group think. Like Tacoma/4 Runner guys and their infatuation with KO2s. lol

I would say the Wildpeak is in the exact same class as the KO2. It's WAY more aggressive than the Conti and G015 and it's a lot tougher even in the P-metric size. If you see one in person you'll see what I mean.

P-metric G015s 255/75/17 (LT version has deeper tread and wider block spacing, more aggressive shoulder lugs)

Wildpeak AT3W LT285/70/17 (LT version has deeper tread but spacing is the same)

A solid in between (Conti and KO2) is the Cooper AT3 4S. Ot the G015 in the LT version but I think and LT tire is way overkill for a Roo.

 

[martin_j001]

So I guess that's good to know that you're seeing similar tread wear as me, at least. As I've had to have my car aligned twice recently (once with previous oil change and also with most recent), I'm going to have to have the suspension checked out I think, not sure what the deal is with that (and didn't do a lot of off road driving in that timeframe either). I should probably do that first. But yeah, so far I've been quite happy with the Terrain Contacts, just not sure how I feel about a tire that'll do just over 20k miles when the tread life claimed is like 60k.

I know Wawa Skittletits has switched to using the Wildpeaks too, and I think he's been happy with them so far.

 

[Kaiser]

I'm not sure if they have the Wildpeak in a size you need as I have not read much about them on Subaru forums. Seems everyone uses KO2s or G015s but that could be due to group think. Like Tacoma/4 Runner guys and their infatuation with KO2s. lol

I would say the Wildpeak is in the exact same class as the KO2. It's WAY more aggressive than the Conti and G015 and it's a lot tougher even in the P-metric size. If you see one in person you'll see what I mean.

JC, I agree on the subjective aggressiveness of the Wildpeaks being seemingly similar to the K02, but from an on-road noise and handling perspective, it seems like Falken's worked some kind of magic to make them as good as their less aggressive competitors. Since my previous post, I've been reading a LOT of comments by people saying that they're barely louder than the all-seasons they upgraded from, while being hugely more capable off-road, of course, but also great in snow and wet. I also found some interesting data that a guy on the Outback forum pulled together from Discount Tire:

DTD: handling, noise, comfort, braking tire ratings

www.subaruoutback.org

Discount Tire Direct has added some of their store data concerning tire life to their website. In addition, they have added "independent third party" rankings for handling, noise, and comfort for some tires.

First number is handling, second is noise, third is ride quality, out of 5.

KO2 LT-C/D 3 / 2.5 / 2.5
Conti A/T P metric 4 / 3.5 / 3.5; LT-E 3.5 /3.5 /3.5
GO15 P-metric 3.5 / 4 / 4
Wildpeak AT3W P-metric 4.5 /4 / 4; LT-E 3 / 4 / 4

While I'd take those numbers with a grain of salt, they do seem to back up what people's opinions are. The fact that the Wildpeak subjectively rate so well in handling and noise compared to my beloved TCs really intrigues me. Maybe I'll give them a shot -- I still have a lot of Vermont camping trips coming up this summer, and I'd like to explore the forest roads up there with a bit more confidence.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to answer this for Jeff's benefit:

I'm not sure if they have the Wildpeak in a size you need as I have not read much about them on Subaru forums.

Yes, though without raised white lettering, sadly, which I've surprisingly become a big fan of: https://www.discounttiredirect.com/buy-tires/falken-wildpeak-a-t3w/p/26510

So I guess that's good to know that you're seeing similar tread wear as me, at least. As I've had to have my car aligned twice recently (once with previous oil change and also with most recent), I'm going to have to have the suspension checked out I think, not sure what the deal is with that (and didn't do a lot of off road driving in that timeframe either). I should probably do that first. But yeah, so far I've been quite happy with the Terrain Contacts, just not sure how I feel about a tire that'll do just over 20k miles when the tread life claimed is like 60k.

I know Wawa Skittletits has switched to using the Wildpeaks too, and I think he's been happy with them so far.

Definitely get your uneven wear issue figured out first. That's something I can't say I've experienced with any tire on the 3.6R -- all four tires look exactly the same.

As for the claimed life of 60k, yeah, I've never quite understood that. I don't think I've ever come close to those mileage estimates with any tire on any car. I can only assume they're basing it on extreme edge cases...all highway, no rough or non-tarmac surfaces, few turns, etc.

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

So I guess that's good to know that you're seeing similar tread wear as me, at least. As I've had to have my car aligned twice recently (once with previous oil change and also with most recent), I'm going to have to have the suspension checked out I think, not sure what the deal is with that (and didn't do a lot of off road driving in that timeframe either). I should probably do that first. But yeah, so far I've been quite happy with the Terrain Contacts, just not sure how I feel about a tire that'll do just over 20k miles when the tread life claimed is like 60k.

I know Wawa Skittletits has switched to using the Wildpeaks too, and I think he's been happy with them so far.

@martin_j001 is correct. I switched from 245/65R17 P rated G015’s to P rated Wildpeaks. The only reason I took off my Yokos was because of questionable timing in regards to winter. I still have them in the basement with 30k miles of wear so they’re still good tires. I had zero complaints about them but wasn’t in love with them either so I thought I’d try something new. The Wildpeaks are much heavier and obviously very aggressive but still handle great on road. You can expect another small hit to mpg, no surprise there. They’re certainly a lot more inspiring off road and Falken isn’t shy about touting its robustness. I’ve definitely run it through it’s paces and the only questionable instance worth noting is ice. Now I know ice is tough with any tire, especially AT/MT, but my G015’s were definitely better. This isn’t surprisingly either though if you look at the tread patterns. In comparison to an LT/load range E tire the load rating slots in between a C and D. Bottom line it’s a great tire and probably the best value going. All that said I have no qualms recommending G015’s to my Roo brothers and sisters if that’s right tire for the job.

 

[Kaiser]

Drew, thanks for that info. How many miles have you put on the Wildpeaks? What I'm mostly concerned about is losing the excellent rain traction of the Contis (it's rained an ungodly amount here in CT in the past few months, and it looks like it's now the norm). The Dynapros were fine in the wet when new, but after wearing them down just ~25% their lateral wet weather performance got downright scary. There's a long, slightly off-camber interstate entrance ramp in my town that I now use as my "how are my tires doing?" benchmark after one day when the Dynapros caused my Outback to first push in the corner and then suddenly oversteer, something I used to do for fun in the STi under power, but this happened out of the blue at a very reasonable speed (and in a car that resolutely understeers AND is down 100HP from where my previous car was).

It was then that I realized that a) the Dynapro's siping was either very shallow and had worn away and/or b) the sticky part of the compound that let the tires adhere well in slippery conditions was also only skin deep. So that's what concerns me about going with a new tire -- it seems easy to be good in all conditions when they're brand new (which is when most people write their reviews, it seems), but not so much after 5 or 10,000 miles. Falken's marketing material does say they use a silica tread compound, but doesn't specify whether it's the entire depth of the thread.

 

[Wawa Skittletits]

No problem @Kaiser! I believe I have ~10k on them. I put them on in the fall but had lost almost 2 months of driving on them recently due to an expensive deer and an incompetent body shop. As they drive now they're great in the rain. Wet weather performance is important to me because I live in Pennsyltucky where we're all about shattering rainfall records. I've never felt like I needed to slow down regardless of how hard it was raining. I'll take a closer look at the siping but I don't suspect they'd make much of a difference with this deep tread pattern.

In regards to your benchmark incident.. I'd 100% blame VDC for it because as you know this pig is incredibly difficult to oversteer.

 

[Kaiser]

due to an expensive deer and an incompetent body shop

Yikes. We're overrun with deer here in CT too, though it seems like the coyotes are finally putting a dent in their overpopulation. None too soon, too.

As they drive now they're great in the rain. Wet weather performance is important to me because I live in Pennsyltucky where we're all about shattering rainfall records. I've never felt like I needed to slow down regardless of how hard it was raining. I'll take a closer look at the siping but I don't suspect they'd make much of a difference with this deep tread pattern.

In regards to your benchmark incident.. I'd 100% blame VDC for it because as you know this pig is incredibly difficult to oversteer.

That's good to hear. I think I'll give them a shot.

And it may have been VDC, but I can tell you that I haven't been able to recreate that particular incident -- ever -- with the TerrainContacts. And I've really tried. :derp:

 

[martin_j001]

Sounding like the Wildpeaks might be worth trying out...just need to decide if the slight hit to mpg (yet another in the case of our cars) is worth it versus tires that wear out fast (Terrain Contacts)...versus something else.

 

[Kaiser]

Hey there Jeff and Drew, not sure if the username tagging that I attempted in this thread sent you notifications -- I've spent the last 18 years on NASIOC, and that dinosaur of a forum doesn't have any of the "fancy" stuff this one has. Drew, I wanted to make sure to thank you for the Wildpeak guidance, and Jeff, I was curious if you'd replaced your Contis yet.