Manual transmission vehicle options

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Soon, the wife and I will be researching and searching for our new rig and I was curious as to what options were out there with manual transmissions. I'm aware of Wranglers and FJ's but I wanted to get some suggestions of those here. I don't absolutely need a manual transmission. I just find that I get much more enjoyment out of driving them. Most of my 4 wheeling background is an '86 k10 pickup 4 speed with a granny low. It was like driving a bus at times but man was that a fun truck to drive.

We aren't planning to do any major offroading. Most of our vehicle's 4x4 capabilities will only be used out of absolute necessity rather than seeking out challenging terrain. We want our journeys to be free and easy (though I realize that can't always be the case). Instead of Black Bear Pass type trips, we're thinking more easy-lightly moderate terrain.

So what would you all here recommend us checking out? I'd prefer something a bit newer so there's a little more cabin comfort for my wife. She would not do well on a long trip in a k10 or something similar. So let's say something from the mid to late 90's and present day? I'm open to pretty much any platform here so feel free to suggest anything.

Edit: To add to this - something I've looked hard at is a newer Wrangler, 6 speed transmission with the B&M short shifter/sport shift upgrade. Sounds like that would be right up my alley. And a stock Wrangler setup would likely be much more capable than what we would NEED. Especially starting out. But I would also like to explore some more typical SUV type options.

 

[Bob (Fishingbob)]

DreadPirateRob
You can't go wrong with the Jeep Wrangler JKU (four door). Loads of room, and room to grow into as your needs expand and maybe the family grows. I have a 2015 JKU 6 speed manual (never had it in 6th gear) and I'm more than satisfied with the set up. Yes, I would like a lower gear set up than the stock 3.25 gears, but unless you are purchasing New -they are hard to find. Like you I'm not interested in a Black Bear Pass set up, but so far (4 months last year and 5 months this year) traveling in Colorado, New Mexico and Wyoming back dirt roads and highways up and down mountain passes, even pulling my Morris Mule Trailer, I'm satisfied. I would not be satisfied if the vehicle was an automatic. B&M short shifter would be a great upgrade.
Hope this helps
Bob

 

[DreadPirateRoberts]

DreadPirateRob
You can't go wrong with the Jeep Wrangler JKU (four door). Loads of room, and room to grow into as your needs expand and maybe the family grows. I have a 2015 JKU 6 speed manual (never had it in 6th gear) and I'm more than satisfied with the set up. Yes, I would like a lower gear set up than the stock 3.25 gears, but unless you are purchasing New -they are hard to find. Like you I'm not interested in a Black Bear Pass set up, but so far (4 months last year and 5 months this year) traveling in Colorado, New Mexico and Wyoming back dirt roads and highways up and down mountain passes, even pulling my Morris Mule Trailer, I'm satisfied. I would not be satisfied if the vehicle was an automatic. B&M short shifter would be a great upgrade.
Hope this helps
BobView attachment 62656

Thanks Bob! I feel like the Wrangler will give us some perfect growing room for the future. I'm interested in how well yours pulls the trailer as the gearing is a bit of a concern for me regarding whether or not I end up acquiring a trailer to take with us on trips. We'll probably appreciate the additional storage at least at first while we slowly ween ourselves off of certain creature comforts for different trips.

Also good to hear that someone with a '15 Wrangler isn't having any shifter troubles. I've read (I think anyway) that around '13 was the last year model to not have the extreme shifter wobble that would throw the transmission into neutral on its own in rough/bumpy driving conditions. Probably something that would barely ever apply to me, but the shifter upgrade on top of a newer Jeep in terms of price is somewhat of a no-brainer for me.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[brien]

I'll vouch for the manual trans JKU as well. I have a 2016 Rubicon with the 6-speed manual, the rubicon manual trans gearing is 4.11 which has been great for us so far. Like @Bob (Fishingbob) said, they can be hard to find used, heck, even brand new mine was hard to find. I live in a metro area of over a million people and there was ONE manual trans Rubicon Hard Rock that popped up new for sale. I went to the dealer and bought it that morning.
In about a month or so we'll also be tugging a turtleback trailer behind us, and I will say, the stock suspension is not quite beefy enough if you really weight the thing down. You'll likely want to beef up the rear coils with HD springs or some airbags for towing or loading it down with lots of gear. We're a family of 5 and we absolutely pack every square inch of the rack and the back cargo area, so we might not be a typical use case.
The B&M short shifter is towards the top of our "to do" list. The stock shift knob has quite a bit of movement and i regularly find myself hitting my passenger's leg while shifting.

 

[old_man]

You keep referencing Black Bear Pass. It isn't hard. I took a group of neophytes in bone stock Jeep Cherokees over it several years ago. I even took a double cab Ford Pickup over it. It did take a 17 point turn to get around the one switchback, but I got it done.

Black Bear can scare the heck out a flatlander, but just remember, the edge isn't going to jump out in front of you and pull you off the mountain.

 

[TreXTerra]

If you are considering the FJ Cruiser (currently out of production), then I assume you are alright with a used vehicle. The Nissan Xterra (also out of production) was also available with a 6-speed manual and it makes for a solid overland platform. It has four real doors and much better visibility than the FJ Cruiser while maintaining good road manners and solid off road performance out of the box. If you find the Pro-4X trip, it also comes with a factory locking rear differential.

I've driven a lot of off road miles in a huge variety of terrain. While a manual is fun, it has limitations. In very slow and technical spots where you are going slower than 1st gear low range, you will end up slipping your clutch. This causes premature wear and can burn the flywheel - this is an expensive repair, a clutch replacement alone can run $1,200 without the flywheel. I know because I literally just did it after getting 100,000 miles out of my last clutch.

An automatic uses a torque converter, which can help with those really slow sections. It also allows you to focus on wheel placement and allows for a smoother power application when combined with a bit of left-foot braking. Also, not everyone can drive a manual, and even fewer can do so off road. If someone gets injured, having a vehicle that can be driven out by anyone is a big plus.

I've wheeled extensively with both an auto and a manual, my next vehicle will most likely be an automatic.

 

[DreadPirateRoberts]

You keep referencing Black Bear Pass. It isn't hard. I took a group of neophytes in bone stock Jeep Cherokees over it several years ago. I even took a double cab Ford Pickup over it. It did take a 17 point turn to get around the one switchback, but I got it done.

Black Bear can scare the heck out a flatlander, but just remember, the edge isn't going to jump out in front of you and pull you off the mountain.

Yeah. Black Bear Pass scares the bejeezus out of me. I don't play well with heights. Combined with some (at least) semi-technical trail driving and I'm probably never making that journey. Though, it really isn't on or around our bucket-list at the moment.

 

[brien]

Oh, i should point out some features of the JKU manual trans that are related to off-roading.

Hill Assist: If you are on an incline, when you release the brake, the brakes will continue to hold you for about a second before letting go. This is plenty of time to move your foot to the gas and get moving.
Anti-stall: when in 4-low it's extremely difficult to stall the engine in first gear. This allows you really ride the brake when crawling if you want super slow motion
No-clutch start: In 4-low 1st gear you can start the vehicle IN GEAR without using the clutch. The vehicle will start up and immediately begin crawling without lurching. This can come in quite handy.
Clutchless shifting: (you can do this in any manual trans vehicle). With the right timing/blips/feathering you can double clutch the shifter without actually using the clutch to shift between gears. handy incase your clutch linkage breaks on the trail.

 

[DreadPirateRoberts]

If you are considering the FJ Cruiser (currently out of production), then I assume you are alright with a used vehicle. The Nissan Xterra (also out of production) was also available with a 6-speed manual and it makes for a solid overland platform. It has four real doors and much better visibility than the FJ Cruiser while maintaining good road manners and solid off road performance out of the box. If you find the Pro-4X trip, it also comes with a factory locking rear differential.

I've driven a lot of off road miles in a huge variety of terrain. While a manual is fun, it has limitations. In very slow and technical spots where you are going slower than 1st gear low range, you will end up slipping your clutch. This causes premature wear and can burn the flywheel - this is an expensive repair, a clutch replacement alone can run $1,200 without the flywheel. I know because I literally just did it after getting 100,000 miles out of my last clutch.

An automatic uses a torque converter, which can help with those really slow sections. It also allows you to focus on wheel placement and allows for a smoother power application when combined with a bit of left-foot braking. Also, not everyone can drive a manual, and even fewer can do so off road. If someone gets injured, having a vehicle that can be driven out by anyone is a big plus.

I've wheeled extensively with both an auto and a manual, my next vehicle will most likely be an automatic.

I'm semi-familiar with the difficulties presented with manuals offroading. I'm more accustomed than most with a standard transmission though. But I am keeping these considerations in the back of my mind. While the scenarios you mention regarding the difficulties of a manual transmission offroad will be few and far between for me, I do have those thoughts in the back of my mind. An automatic isn't totally out of the question for me by any stretch and if our offroad journeys continue to evolve into more technical travel, then an automatic would likely be at the top of my list. But for road-tripping and hitting some light trails, I am confident in being able to handle whatever driving is required. Plus, my wife knows how to drive a stick as well so we aren't crippled in the middle of nowhere if for some reason I can't or don't want to drive.

And thank you for the input. I'm a firm believer in exploring as many possibilities as I can before making big'ish decisions. You bring up some good points that I'll definitely have to continue considering until I make a decision.

 

[DreadPirateRoberts]

I'll vouch for the manual trans JKU as well. I have a 2016 Rubicon with the 6-speed manual, the rubicon manual trans gearing is 4.11 which has been great for us so far. Like @Bob (Fishingbob) said, they can be hard to find used, heck, even brand new mine was hard to find. I live in a metro area of over a million people and there was ONE manual trans Rubicon Hard Rock that popped up new for sale. I went to the dealer and bought it that morning.
In about a month or so we'll also be tugging a turtleback trailer behind us, and I will say, the stock suspension is not quite beefy enough if you really weight the thing down. You'll likely want to beef up the rear coils with HD springs or some airbags for towing or loading it down with lots of gear. We're a family of 5 and we absolutely pack every square inch of the rack and the back cargo area, so we might not be a typical use case.
The B&M short shifter is towards the top of our "to do" list. The stock shift knob has quite a bit of movement and i regularly find myself hitting my passenger's leg while shifting.

Good to know about the suspension. I'll file it away. I almost feel guilty for asking this question so soon here. I'm likely many months away from making a vehicle purchase. I'm just trying to get as much research in early because I know I'll be super picky once I settle on something and start seriously searching for the "perfect" vehicle for us to get.

 

[Phildirt]

I've seen enough guys torch a clutch on a standard trying to go up/down hill safely to say I wouldn't recommend it for anyone that isn't well versed in it. If you plan on mostly highway driving it's a non-issue either because you'll live in 6th. But if you like city and some fire road action then definitely get your standard on :)

I prefer an auto because I'm usually multi tasking in a trail situation and don't want the clutch as another input.

 

[Bob (Fishingbob)]

DreadPirateRob

Awesome thread-I'm sure there are quite a few members looking at future options-you are right on track-keep researching. This is why I love this forum and OB-great responses from the members.

Brien brought up a good point-being loaded down and also pulling a trailer. My 2015 JKU has a Rock Krawler lift with Bilistein 5100 series shocks and when I head out from Aransas Pass, TX for 4-6 months I'm loaded to the gills-still squats down pretty good.

Never had an issue with the Jeep popping out of gear-definitely wobbles way to much. Some of the roads I have been on around Pecos/Ft. Stockton, TX (285 going north I believe) are horribly torn up by the oil rig support vehicles traveling the road-I would say if it was going to happen it would have been on this road.

Gearing-I would have loved to have found a Rubicon (with 4.11 or 3.73) but I spent months looking-just were not available. Yes I could have the gears changed out-but I'll live with what I have I think.

Pulling the trailer up the mountain passes does require sometimes, that I shift down to even 3rd (Loveland Pass, Co going out of Denver) but that is to be expected-I'm usually going over the passes at 45-50 MPH. I can live with that. Corvettes and BMW are in the left lane doing 70 in 55 MPH. Trucks are in the right lane doing 35-40---ha ha.

Some greats points mentioned in the thread-this is great.

Bob

 

[DreadPirateRoberts]

DreadPirateRob

Awesome thread-I'm sure there are quite a few members looking at future options-you are right on track-keep researching. This is why I love this forum and OB-great responses from the members.

Brien brought up a good point-being loaded down and also pulling a trailer. My 2015 JKU has a Rock Krawler lift with Bilistein 5100 series shocks and when I head out from Aransas Pass, TX for 4-6 months I'm loaded to the gills-still squats down pretty good.

Never had an issue with the Jeep popping out of gear-definitely wobbles way to much. Some of the roads I have been on around Pecos/Ft. Stockton, TX (285 going north I believe) are horribly torn up by the oil rig support vehicles traveling the road-I would say if it was going to happen it would have been on this road.

Gearing-I would have loved to have found a Rubicon (with 4.11 or 3.73) but I spent months looking-just were not available. Yes I could have the gears changed out-but I'll live with what I have I think.

Pulling the trailer up the mountain passes does require sometimes, that I shift down to even 3rd (Loveland Pass, Co going out of Denver) but that is to be expected-I'm usually going over the passes at 45-50 MPH. I can live with that. Corvettes and BMW are in the left lane doing 70 in 55 MPH. Trucks are in the right lane doing 35-40---ha ha.

Some greats points mentioned in the thread-this is great.

Bob

Good to know re: the shifter staying put for you and your lack of bad luck. I hope you didn't just jinx yourself for my sake! The decision on whether or not we'll pick up a trailer will heavily impact whether or not we get a Wrangler or not. But there are still so many options for me to explore until that time comes. I've also considered biting the bullet and waiting out until I can get one of my dream vehicles, an '86 Land Cruiser, for us to travel in. Like I said, this is somewhat of a slow burn for us because we want to be in a position where we're ready to go for an extended period of time once our vehicle and gear is in place. Just glad I discovered this place a few months ago and can learn from others here. This is a great community of people that genuinely want to help whenever they can offer any knowledge or educated opinions. I am very grateful for it.