Legal Weapons and Overlanding

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MidOH

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I was picturing a 4H girl riding her horse, when it goes nuts and jumps off the track, into the stands, and starts trampling spectators.

Wasn't too far off?
 
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Lanlubber

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I think Ghost was referring to 4-wheel drive HIGH. Meaning, we took off in 4H with a vengeance, running over everything that was in the way....
He was right, guns are a sore spot for both sides and important enough to start a civil war.
 

Lanlubber

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I was picturing a 4H girl riding her horse, when it goes nuts and jumps off the track, into the stands, and starts trampling spectators.

Wasn't too far off?
Amazing vision, I don't think I could come up with a thought like that. LOL
 

mep1811

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To clarify, defense against wildlife is one of the reasons explicitly allowed for bringing guns into Canada. I believe I've mentioned it already.
No I was told explicitly, by the Canadian Customs Officer that was not legal. That is why I had the bear spray. I was also told Bear spray is illegal for use in self defence against a criminal attack.

Using a Firearm for Wilderness Protection
In general, the only firearms allowed for wilderness protection are non-restricted rifles and shotguns. The following individuals, provided they are Canadian residents and have a licence that allows them to possess restricted firearms, may be authorized to carry a handgun or restricted long gun for wilderness protection:
  • licensed professional trappers, and
  • individuals who need protection from wild animals while working at their lawful occupation, most often in a remote wilderness location.

from the RCMP
 

mep1811

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An individual , I think on Expo Portal, mentioned being turned away from Canada because he wanted to travel in Canada with a long gun . He reported that since he was not transiting Canada to Alaska he was denied entry.
 

Ghost

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I was picturing a 4H girl riding her horse, when it goes nuts and jumps off the track, into the stands, and starts trampling spectators.

Wasn't too far off?
I had no idea you had seen my daughter ride? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

It was actually last year when her horse went ape$hit. While they didn’t end up in the stands he did make 4 hot laps around the arena before she could get him reined in.

This year, totally different story.
 

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Ghost

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I think Ghost was referring to 4-wheel drive HIGH. Meaning, we took off in 4H with a vengeance, running over everything that was in the way....
That was the direction I was going. Just trying stay between the lines when it comes the Forum rules. It’s pretty clear politics & religion are out bounds. I realize the gun debate is a hot political topic and I’m strongly on one side of it. I also understand I’m not going to win any hearts & minds on a off-road forum, nor do I really try. I’m perfectly fine being polite and respectful to everyone with opposing views as long as they do the same. That’s my Ward Clearer Response. I realize some may need to google the Cleaver thing :laughing:
 
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Lanlubber

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That was the direction I was going. Just trying stay between the lines when it comes the Forum rules. It’s pretty clear politics & religion are out bounds. I realize the gun debate is a hot political topic and I’m strongly on one side of it. I also understand I’m not going to win any hearts & minds on a off-road forum, nor do I really try. I’m perfectly fine being polite and respectful to everyone with opposing views as long as they do the same. That’s my Ward Clearer Response. I realize some may need to google the Cleaver thing :laughing:
All's well @Ghost, if we get out of line our area rep will let us know about it. This thread is about guns. Our discussion is about guns. Because of the thread question itself, a political conversation is bound to be a necessary part of "do you do this or do you do that." We didn't make the laws that cause the questioning of those laws, or the politics behind them. I think our area rep realizes there is a fine line for us to follow. I shall always be respectful of our members and their views. We are after all, entitled to our options as long as they are respectfully expressed.
 
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CR-Venturer

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No I was told explicitly, by the Canadian Customs Officer that was not legal. That is why I had the bear spray. I was also told Bear spray is illegal for use in self defence against a criminal attack.

Using a Firearm for Wilderness Protection
In general, the only firearms allowed for wilderness protection are non-restricted rifles and shotguns. The following individuals, provided they are Canadian residents and have a licence that allows them to possess restricted firearms, may be authorized to carry a handgun or restricted long gun for wilderness protection:
  • licensed professional trappers, and
  • individuals who need protection from wild animals while working at their lawful occupation, most often in a remote wilderness location.

from the RCMP
Perhaps you're getting mixed up between restricted and non restricted. Anyone with a license (including temporary license holders) may carry a non-restricted firearm for defense against wildlife. This is one of the purposes explicitly permitted for foreign nationals to import firearms temporarily.

Handguns and other restricted or prohibited firearms cannot be imported for this reason, nor can they be carried by residents for that reason except with a special permit to carry issued to the people you noted who need it for their occupation.

In short - non restricted firearm used for defense against wildlife - yes. Restricted firearm used for defense against wildlife - no, unless you have a permit to carry, which you wont unless you're a trapper, geologist, etc.

Hope that clears it up.
EDIT:
I re-read your post and noted that you had a 12 gauge shotgun and a marlin guide gun, both of which would almost certainly be non-restricted. I will tell you that the officer was absolutely wrong in telling you they can't be used for defense against wildlife. They absolutely can, and that is absolutely a valid reason to import them temporarily, provided it's reasonable based on where you're going on your trip (see my post below). As a matter of fact, it's listed right on the form you filled out. Not sure if that officer was new or inexperienced or what, but trust me, he was wrong.

Incidentally, he's also not correct in saying that it's unlawful to use bear spray in self defense. Technically it's not, but it MAY be considered unlawful to carry it for that reason (complicated explanation for this). If you're carrying it for bears and you end up having to use it on a human, the law says that it is fine so long as the force used is reasonable in the circumstances.
 
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CR-Venturer

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An individual , I think on Expo Portal, mentioned being turned away from Canada because he wanted to travel in Canada with a long gun . He reported that since he was not transiting Canada to Alaska he was denied entry.
It depends where you're going and what you're doing. If you're going way into the back country where encounters with bears and cougars are likely, sure. If you're going shopping in downtown Vancouver, no, they're not going to let you import it for defense against wildlife :P
 
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mep1811

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Perhaps you're getting mixed up between restricted and non restricted. Anyone with a license (including temporary license holders) may carry a non-restricted firearm for defense against wildlife. This is one of the purposes explicitly permitted for foreign nationals to import firearms temporarily.

Handguns and other restricted or prohibited firearms cannot be imported for this reason, nor can they be carried by residents for that reason except with a special permit to carry issued to the people you noted who need it for their occupation.

In short - non restricted firearm used for defense against wildlife - yes. Restricted firearm used for defense against wildlife - no, unless you have a permit to carry, which you wont unless you're a trapper, geologist, etc.

Hope that clears it up.

Incidentally, he's not correct in saying that it's unlawful to use bear spray in self defense. Technically it's not, but it MAY be considered unlawful to carry it for that reason. If you're carrying it for bears and you end up having to use it on a human, the law says that it is lawful so long as the force used is reasonable in the circumstances.
Not mixed up at all, but a good reader. The following individuals, provided they are Canadian residents
 

mep1811

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It depends where you're going and what you're doing. If you're going way into the back country where encounters with bears and cougars are likely, sure. If you're going shopping in downtown Vancouver, no, they're not going to let you import it for defense against wildlife :P
He was going into the backcountry as he told the Customs officer.
 

CR-Venturer

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Not mixed up at all, but a good reader. The following individuals, provided they are Canadian residents
The purpose "protection against wildlife" is listed right on the temporary import form as a valid reason for importing. It's also spelled out in the customs D memos on the subject. Trust me on this, I know of what I speak. That officer was dead wrong.
 

Lanlubber

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Perhaps you're getting mixed up between restricted and non restricted. Anyone with a license (including temporary license holders) may carry a non-restricted firearm for defense against wildlife. This is one of the purposes explicitly permitted for foreign nationals to import firearms temporarily.

Handguns and other restricted or prohibited firearms cannot be imported for this reason, nor can they be carried by residents for that reason except with a special permit to carry issued to the people you noted who need it for their occupation.

In short - non restricted firearm used for defense against wildlife - yes. Restricted firearm used for defense against wildlife - no, unless you have a permit to carry, which you wont unless you're a trapper, geologist, etc.

Hope that clears it up.
EDIT:
I re-read your post and noted that you had a 12 gauge shotgun and a marlin guide gun, both of which would almost certainly be non-restricted. I will tell you that the officer was absolutely wrong in telling you they can't be used for defense against wildlife. They absolutely can, and that is absolutely a valid reason to import them temporarily, provided it's reasonable based on where you're going on your trip (see my post below). As a matter of fact, it's listed right on the form you filled out. Not sure if that officer was new or inexperienced or what, but trust me, he was wrong.

Incidentally, he's also not correct in saying that it's unlawful to use bear spray in self defense. Technically it's not, but it MAY be considered unlawful to carry it for that reason (complicated explanation for this). If you're carrying it for bears and you end up having to use it on a human, the law says that it is fine so long as the force used is reasonable in the circumstances.
Wow.....only a liberal lawmaker could make something simple into something so complicated as you have explained. Your tolerance level of your lawmakers must be stretched to the limit. Your gun laws are exactly why we in the States must not let it happen here ! I feel for you.
 
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CR-Venturer

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Wow.....only a liberal lawmaker could make something simple into something so complicated as you have explained. Your tolerance level of your lawmakers must be stretched to the limit. Your gun laws are exactly why we in the States must not let it happen here ! I feel for you.
It gets even crazier, I only gave the really basic explanation. Believe it or not, some courts in Canada have essentially ruled that the same act is both legal and illegal under different sections the same piece of law. If that's not perverse insanity, I don't know what is.

In reference to the discussion about reasons for importation, this is from the Customs D Memo D19-13-2, which covers the importation and exportation of firearms into and out of Canada. The Customs D Memoranda are the procedural manuals used by Border Services Officers to apply legislation at the border and are available to the public on the CBSA website:

Personal importations by non-residents

79. Unlike Canadian residents, non-residents importing non-restricted firearms will always need to have a valid purpose for importing. Valid purposes can include (but not limited to) the following:

  • (a) hunting during the applicable hunting season;
  • (b) use in competitions;
  • (c) repair;
  • (d) re-enactments;
  • (e) in transit movement (i.e., moving in the most direct route possible from point A to point B, through Canada); or
  • (f) protection against wildlife in remote areas. (emphasis added)

80. A border services officer must be satisfied that the circumstances warrant the firearm being imported. Non-residents who are proceeding to a Canadian national park should be advised that many national parks do not allow firearms. In addition, non-residents under 18 years of age are not permitted to transfer their firearm to an adult to ensure its importation. Please note that only non-restricted firearms can be used for hunting purposes and protection against wildlife in remote areas. Use of firearms for personal protection [against people], or protection of property is not deemed a valid purpose to import firearms into Canada.

[comment inserted]
 
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bgenlvtex

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It gets even crazier, I only gave the really basic explanation. Believe it or not, some courts in Canada have essentially ruled that the same act is both legal and illegal under different sections the same piece of law. If that's not perverse insanity, I don't know what is.

In reference to the discussion about reasons for importation, this is from the Customs D Memo D19-13-2, which covers the importation and exportation of firearms into and out of Canada. The Customs D Memoranda are the procedural manuals used by Border Services Officers to apply legislation at the border and are available to the public on the CBSA website:

Personal importations by non-residents

79. Unlike Canadian residents, non-residents importing non-restricted firearms will always need to have a valid purpose for importing. Valid purposes can include (but not limited to) the following:

  • (a) hunting during the applicable hunting season;
  • (b) use in competitions;
  • (c) repair;
  • (d) re-enactments;
  • (e) in transit movement (i.e., moving in the most direct route possible from point A to point B, through Canada); or
  • (f) protection against wildlife in remote areas. (emphasis added)

80. A border services officer must be satisfied that the circumstances warrant the firearm being imported. Non-residents who are proceeding to a Canadian national park should be advised that many national parks do not allow firearms. In addition, non-residents under 18 years of age are not permitted to transfer their firearm to an adult to ensure its importation. Please note that only non-restricted firearms can be used for hunting purposes and protection against wildlife in remote areas. Use of firearms for personal protection [against people], or protection of property is not deemed a valid purpose to import firearms into Canada.

[comment inserted]
This is very helpful, thank you
 

CR-Venturer

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It cant be clearer than that, thank you.
Also realizing there could be some circumstantial variables on an individual basis?
Definitely officer discretion comes into play. For example, it's reasonable to bring 1 or 2, maaaybe 3 firearms in for the purpose of wilderness protection, especially depending on the size of the party travelling together, but bringing 10 or 20 for that reason is a bit excessive. Basically it has to make logical sense and fit within one of the purposes listed in the D Memo.
 
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Msfitoy

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Colt stopping sale of AR15... GO BROKE!!!...there's plenty of better competitors our there...