Help me chose my first Overlander

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Blaklyte

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Hi everyone, I'm new to overlanding and I'm trying to get started on a budget. I'm currently shopping for Land Rover Disco II or Toyota 4runner and I was wondering if you guys could give me your input on the ones I found and tell me what you think, or if I should wait for something better. My end goal would be to end with something like this.

Thanks for your input everyone :) FYI all price are in Cnd, and I'm pretty good to haggle so I should be able to get a better deal.


EDIT: I will keep this still up to date.

1st: 1997 Toyota 4runner
243,000 Km --> = 150,000 miles
Asking 5900$

Extras:
- brand new 33” K02 all terrain tire (5)
- 2” lift - Arb front bumper
- Warn winch never used and just needs to be wired up and have everything required
-4 led lights on two separate toggles



2nd: 2004 Land Rover Discovery SE7
137,000 Km ---> = 83,000 miles
Asking 6000$

Looks super clean, with really low mileage. 7 passenger is a little turn down for my as I would prefer to have the extra cargo space.
 
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diabetiktaco

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It's all relative to what your comfortable with. I'd love a disco. I'd buy one as a second vehicle but I am somewhat mechanically inclined. If I wasn't, there's no way I'd buy one regardless of how cheap they are. It's a toy at this point and nothing more. My tacoma is my DD and has 105,000 trouble free miles and drives like the day I got it. W/ that said..it's all relative to what your comfortable with.
 

Blaklyte

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It's all relative to what your comfortable with. I'd love a disco. I'd buy one as a second vehicle but I am somewhat mechanically inclined. If I wasn't, there's no way I'd buy one regardless of how cheap they are. It's a toy at this point and nothing more. My tacoma is my DD and has 105,000 trouble free miles and drives like the day I got it. W/ that said..it's all relative to what your comfortable with.
It would be a toy and not a daily driver. I have a subaru impreza as my daily driver. I would say that I'm somewhat mechanically inclined, I can't rebuild an engine or anything like that but I should be able to do most things myself, I'm not scared to look online, do some reaserch and try to fix things myself.
 
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Very exciting time -- purchasing a new rig for overlanding is one of my favourite parts of this hobby.

You mentioned you couldn't rebuild an engine -- is that because you lack the appropriate space to do it, or are lacking the skill? If it's the second one, don't worry about it -- my wife and I didn't have the skill to swap a transmission, pull an engine, etc. when we did it the first time. But we sure knew how it worked by attempt number 3 and 4, and I'm sure you will be the same! Everyone used to be a beginner at everything, so don't let that shake you. I would call skill level a 'soft' barrier -- one that you can overcome!

If your fear/hesitation is because of 'hard' barriers, like if you are stuck in an apartment with no sheltered place to work, you may find the needs of a Disco to be beyond what you can do in your space. It will be tough to do much of anything on your rig from September to April in NB if you don't have shelter to do it. An engine rebuild is not conceptually that much harder than swapping wheel bearings or upgrading suspension and brakes. It's the same basic skills, just being applied over more steps.

I love Land Rovers so I get the appeal and being "set on" one. It's substantially more expensive, but not too long ago there were some Defender 110s in Quebec on AutoTrader. if I were to get a Landy, the Defender would trump the Discovery -- but they were starting at $18k.

Specific to the ones you listed:

I would avoid the Mitsubishi. Usually, a broken AC is just the tip of the iceberg and may scream a warning that "This vehicle got it's oil changed every 5 years whether it needed it or not" type of attitude from the previous owner.

From what I've read, it may be a good idea to also avoid the Grand Cherokees if you are doing any long-distance 4x4 touring in rough terrain. This opinion is based on second-hand information but I think it makes sense. The Grand Cherokees are Unibody construction. That is fine for road trips with the occasional gravel road or muddy bit, but less fine for extended gravel/off road travel. The reason for this is that every vehicle flexes, but the body-on-frame vehicles are usually stiffer, and the body is mounted on replaceable bushings, so the flex is minimally disruptive to the function of the vehicle, and as bushes wear down (which takes forever) they can be replaced. With unibody, the flex and vibrations put stress on the entire vehicle, and eventually causes everything to be a bit sloppy/rattly and there's not really a fix for it. So, the long term durability isn't as good on most Unibody vehicles as it is on body-on-frame vehicles.

What kind of trips do you like to do? I would suggest that your rig should be purchased for your desired type of travel, and there may be other types that would meet your needs and budget better than a Disco.
 

Blaklyte

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Very exciting time -- purchasing a new rig for overlanding is one of my favourite parts of this hobby.
Thanks for the reply. I don't have a garage but I do have friends and family that would surely help with that, and I was thinking of parking it for the winter. And I am not totally useless in mechanic, but rebuilding an engine in not something I have done before but I'm sure I could learn.

As for the other rig I will avoid them, I really appreciate your input on this topic. And as for what kind of travel will will do, we would like to visit Canada, go to places we've never been. I was thinking at first I would setup a bed in the back of the Land Rover and in the future I would get a roof top tent. What I had in mind for the Disco was upgrade the suspension and tire this year and them next year do bumper and roof rack, year after probably roof tent and fridge. And every year being able to adventure further and further from home.
 
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Pathfinder I

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Thanks for the reply. I don't have a garage but I do have friends and family that would surely help with that, and I was thinking of parking it for the winter. And I am not totally useless in mechanic, but rebuilding an engine in not something I have done before but I'm sure I could learn.

As for the other rig I will avoid them, I really appreciate your input on this topic. And as for what kind of travel will will do, we would like to visit Canada, go to places we've never been. I was thinking at first I would setup a bed in the back of the Land Rover and in the future I would get a roof top tent. What I had in mind for the Disco was upgrade the suspension and tire this year and them next year do bumper and roof rack, year after probably roof tent and fridge. And every year being able to adventure further and further from home.
That sounds like a fantastic goal for building the rig. Canada has a ton to explore. The downside is, much of the good exploration out east like the TransLab or other logging roads can be quite isolated, so reliability and self-recovery will be the number one priority no matter what rig you buy. While Land Rovers don't have the reputation for being reliable, reliability is at least a little bit subjective. All vehicles break, it's your attitude & preparation about what to do when they break that matters most. To illustrate: Some years ago, a fellow bought a nice shiny KTM adventure motorcycle for a trip through Mexico. Before he crossed the border, he found out he needed a new fuel filter (I think that's what it was but it may have been an oil issue). He didn't have any spares with him -- in his mind, a brand new bike shouldn't need spare parts -- and KTM dealers were few and far between. Therefore, his whole trip was ruined because from his perspective "the KTM was unreliable" -- "What kind of twenty-thousand-dollar adventure bike can't even do a two week trip to Mexico" was the frustration. On the other hand, had he been prepared that the service item was coming due/knew more about the machine, he may have been able to pack a fuel filter with him, and what was a trip-ruining experience could have been turned into some parking lot/side of the road maintenance more akin to oiling a chain. Attitude + Preparation trump reliability every time.

One final thought on mindset -- I don't know your specific needs and budget, but what you posted earlier in terms of links leads me to believe that you are not in a spot to drop $85K on a new Gladiator or whatever. Based on those links, you are mostly buying the "bones" of a vehicle -- at those ages, anything can go wrong, and stuff is going to wear out. With a Land Rover with 200k kilometres on the clock, you are essentially buying a 98 pound weakling with the Genes of Dwayne Johnson. It's going to take you some time and energy in the gym to turn your 98 pound weakling into The Rock -- but you don't need to be The Rock to enjoy an adventure! There are many to be had along the way while you build it up.

So with that mindset stuff out of the way, generally speaking, the first thing you want to look at is Rust. Rust is like cancer. Once it starts, it spreads, and it's very hard to eradicate completely. Panel Rust is fixable, but be wary of rust on the frame. Most models of vehicle (regardless of manufacturer) have "rust prone areas" so learn what those are.

When buying used, unless you have very good and detailed service records from a licensed garage (and with LR, preferably a LR specialist garage) I would assume that all wear parts are going to need to be redone with vehicles at the milage you are looking at, and I wouldn't stray too far from the beaten path (i.e. no where a tow truck couldn't come get my rig) until I had them replaced. I would invest in the "leave me stranded" bits first.


- Wheel Bearings/Hubs
- Battery
- Alternator
- Brake pads, inspect callipers & rotors.
- Brake Fluid (On some rigs, this is also the fluid used in the clutch)
- Engine Oil
- Trans Fluid
- Diff Fluids (Do a "diff-cover off" inspection to see if there is wear)
- T-Case fluid (again, if there's a way to pull a cover to inspect for wear, do it).
- Water Pump (If the pump appears to be functioning, keep it as a spare)
- If it's a manual, consider replacing the clutch, pilot, and throwout bearings.
- Oil Pump (Same as WP, keep old one as spare)
- Suspension (go cheap first, unless you know exactly how your rig will be configured and what that will weigh. In other words, buy cheap Monroe shocks if you absolutely must replace them, rather than springing for the ARB kit right away, because as you build your rig you'll eventually dial in your 'usual weight' and should base your final suspension on that weight).

Those are all things you can probably do in a driveway with some jack stands and a good set of mechanics tools (Maybe not the clutch, that's a big job, but it's possible -- done it 4 times in my life, one was at -30C and terribly unpleasant). There may also be electrical issues that are common, but spending some time on expo-focused Landy forums can help -- most will have a "Land Rover Disco II Problems Thread" or something that will highlight the common failings and fixes.

The other bits that can go wrong are more complex and can end up being major money sinks, like engine problems -- valve seats burning up, cam chains (if it has them) being stretched out of spec, etc. Another bigger item of concern is internal wear on the gears and synchros in the trans. The trouble is, it's very hard to tell when there are sleeper problems that are significant for almost any vehicle. Regular fluid changes can help, but one still never knows. Once you've decided the rough make and models you are interested, get an idea of what these big things cost by calling around to a few shops in your area. Even if you do the work yourself, this will give you a 'worst case scenario' calculation. You can probably get the transmission rebuilt fairly affordably versus buying a whole new one. Some Land Rover engines have a reputation for being bulletproof, which means you probably don't need to worry about them if they are in your rig with a clean service history. Some LR engines are known for being very useful boat anchors on a good day, and that's it. This info alone might be enough to avoid one Landy over another.

These aren't things you should worry about necessarily, but keep it in the back of your mind: "If I buy this rover for $XXX thousand dollars, and EVERYTHING is needing to be replaced, what is my total outlay?". That may tilt the balance more in favour of the $3k Landy with 200k on the clock over the $10k Landy with only 180k on the clock. $8k can buy a lot of parts and repairs. On the other hand, if the 10k Landy has one of the bulletproof engines and the $3k has one that is known for problems, maybe the 10k one is a better buy. Obviously, I wouldn't suggest buying a rig with the intention of replacing the engine or transmission, but be prepared for that so you at least go in with both eyes open.

I would avoid anything that has been messed with/modified into an 'overlanding' rig by the previous owner too much. Bumpers and bolt-ons are usually fine, but generally, "Too much" in my books is if the original owner has messed with the electrics -- tapped into the loom for a set of lights here, piggy backed off a fuse for a radio there, etc. -- if they've done that, they've introduced gremlins into the system. Moreover, it suggests that they did things the "easy way" instead of "the right way" (probably because of ignorance, not intent), and this approach was probably not exclusive to the electrics -- the "easy way" approach may have been taken with other aftermarket parts. I don't say this as a condemnation of amateur shade-tree mechanics, because I am one -- I say this because I know that the vehicles I modified early on in my overlanding life were not done properly -- I simply didn't know what I didn't know -- and it had a negative impact on vehicle reliability. Since I am a person with incredibly average intelligence and skill, there's a lot of people like me out there! You do not want to inherit a "Learner" rig like that.

I hope that is helpful! If there are specific questions or points of clarification please don't hesitate to ask. I'm happy to share my perspective on this stuff, though there are thousands who know a lot more about this than me so I'm hoping more people chime in especially to tell me where I'm wrong, so we can both learn!
 

Blaklyte

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Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate you opinion on the matter. I will keep looking for a 2004 Land Rover Discovery, hopefully one will pop up within my budget. I will make sure it's rust free and in decent condition. I know that they are old vehicle and will need some maintenance, but has it will be a secondary it will give me the chance to park it and take my time to fix it, and learn at the same time. In the mean time I will try to learn as much as I can on the Discovery II, so that once I go buy one I will know exactly what to look for.

Thanks again :D
 
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Blaklyte

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I also started to look at Toyota 4runners v8, just in case I can't find the Land Rover I want. I don't think they nook learny as good has the Rover but people say they are reliable

What do you think, anything you think I should about the 4runner befor buying one?
 

alexdnick

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Personally, I’d only buy something with a ton of miles that is clearly used for off roading if I’m ready to swap major bits. Such as the engine, and trans, because you don’t know what those people put it through, and they are old rigs. Yes they are reliable, but there’s a reason the people are selling them for cheap.

I’d save for a more expensive rig if it was me, or make sure you have enough money, time, and space for it to sit when it’s broken down.
 

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I got out of midsizes and bought something new. I need to know all of the trucks history, or rebuild EVERYTHING on a used one.

Overlanding long distances of wide open spaces, and 4 wheelin to a nearby camp require 2 different vehicles. Make sure you have that figured out. All of my canadian trips were biased heavy towards a fullsize rig.
 

Blaklyte

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I got out of midsizes and bought something new. I need to know all of the trucks history, or rebuild EVERYTHING on a used one.

Overlanding long distances of wide open spaces, and 4 wheelin to a nearby camp require 2 different vehicles. Make sure you have that figured out. All of my canadian trips were biased heavy towards a fullsize rig.
What exactly would you call fullsize? Something like a Tacoma? I think size wise the Land Rover or 4runner would be big enought especially at the start. We would probably keep our trip to 1 to 3 days trip at first. Once I get the rooftop tent we might extend that a little.
 

alexdnick

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What exactly would you call fullsize? Something like a Tacoma? I think size wise the Land Rover or 4runner would be big enought especially at the start. We would probably keep our trip to 1 to 3 days trip at first. Once I get the rooftop tent we might extend that a little.
Tacoma is a midsize truck. Personally, I wouldn’t go with a truck. I love mine and it’s been great but it feels like unless you get an older Tacoma, the added length really isn’t worth much. I think your idea of a 4Runner is really smart. As Land cruisers will be more $$$ to fix and 4runners are easier to find(atleast around me).

If you need the truck bed then I get why you’d get a truck(that’s why I got one) but if you think an SUV is fine, the Land Cruiser/4Runner/Disco group is what you want for sure.
 

MidOH

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I found that I was going places that really didn't have a size restriction. And I was overloaded.

And that was the end of my jeep, Toyota, days. For now it least. Some of my short camp trips are on a Suzuki DRZ400s.
 

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I also started to look at Toyota 4runners v8, just in case I can't find the Land Rover I want. I don't think they nook learny as good has the Rover but people say they are reliable

What do you think, anything you think I should about the 4runner befor buying one?
I don’t know enough about the 4 runner to tell you specifics but I do know they tend to go in “generations” and the generations will have rules of thumb about what’s good/not good.

I do know the 4 runner changed shape quite a bit over the years, and the more recent ones are a lot bigger in terms of cargo space inside, so that’s what I’d lean towards.

Check out how much weight a given 4 runner can carry (payload) to make sure that you are getting one that will be big enough. Lots of threads on the importance of payload on these boards. I personally prefer to aim for no more than 80% of GVWR.

Otherwise the 4 runners are very well regarded for reliability and ease of repairs, with some generations of 4 runner having a lot of aftermarket support. It’s a solid choice for an overlanding platform.
 

alexdnick

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Looking around I also found the following 4runner where I live. It that already has a lift, 33" tires, an ARB bumper and a Warn winch. Any thoughts?

1997 Toyota 4runner | Cars & Trucks | Moncton | Kijiji
One thing to note when buying used, those aftermarket parts (grill tires suspension etc) wear harder on the vehicle than it being stock. And you don’t know how they treated it when they took it off road. If it was me I would look for one without all the goodies, unless you are going to be getting it inspected by a mechanic before purchase.

I’d recommend finding a mechanic near you that will check up on the car if you aren’t super familiar with what to look for and aren’t very mechanically inclined, last time I had it done it was about $100USD to have an inspection, I found a reputable mechanic, and had the owner bring the car there before purchase. I paid for the inspection as it was for me.
 
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Hi everyone, I'm new to overlanding and I'm trying to get started on a budget. I'm currently shopping for a Land Rover Disco II and was wondering if you guys could give me your input on the ones I found and tell me what you think, or if you think I should wait for something better. I also posted some that are not Landy, but I feel like my heart is set on a Landy. My end goal would be to end with something like this.
Thanks for your input everyone :) FYI all price are in Cnd

1st: 2004 Disco with 191,000 Km
I should be able to get it for 3500 to 3000$
Owner tells me there is no rust and the thing drives strong. It does have the 3 amigos lights which I should be able to fix. It's a little over 4 hours from where I live.
Also this one is a 7 seater which I would like to convert to 5 so I could get the side bins


2nd: 2000 Disco with 238,000km asking 7000$ cnd but does already have lots of mods
This one if far from where I am, I would have to fly over to go pick it up and driver 14 hours to bring it back.
Mods includes, lift, tires, ARB Front bull bar, ladder, roofrack.


3rd: Jeep Grand Cherokee Rocky Mountain with mods. 180,00km asking 5800$
This one is located 10min from where I live.
Mods includes bull bar, lift, tires, and a small roof rack.


4th: 2003 Mitsubishi Montero 208,000km asking 6300$
This one is located 3 hours away from me
Mods includes 2 inch old man emu lift, some good tires and a roof rack. But AC doesn't work


5th: 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 159,000km asking 5000$ obo
This one looks really clean, about 1.5 hours from me
LRD2's are a good choice but not the ones you listed unless they have new engines. All are very overpriced or at least in my neck of the woods they are. I just purchased a 2000 LRD2 in Feb with 101,000 miles for $2000. No mods and needing a few small things. It was a 2nd. owner truck that he had owned since 2003. He got rid of it because he fell in love with new car payments that bought him a new Jeep. He already had a Corvette and motorcycles and didn't have room or need for the LRD2. Two weeks after I bought mine I found another one in Albuq. NM needing a water pump and he wanted $1000. I prefer to buy cheap and build unless you can find something already built and has decent low mileage on the engine. Your # 3 doesn't sound too bad since it has mods that would cost you apx. $2500 + alone. You didn't sy what year model but they are good vehicles in my minds eye. I hope you get good advise in making your choice. I would rather build my rig, that way I know what it has and if it was done right. The jeep parts will be the least expensive and the LRD2 will cost the most just because of their name. If you have a good LRD2 there is nothing better IMO. There are a lot of Toyotas out there, most will cost you a bunch because of their reputation but if you can find one, either PU or SUV at a reasonable price, they are dependable. I have posted two in the last month that I thought were good buys. What is your budget ?
 

Blaklyte

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LRD2's are a good choice but not the ones you listed unless they have new engines. All are very overpriced or at least in my neck of the woods they are. I just purchased a 2000 LRD2 in Feb with 101,000 miles for $2000. No mods and needing a few small things. It was a 2nd. owner truck that he had owned since 2003. He got rid of it because he fell in love with new car payments that bought him a new Jeep. He already had a Corvette and motorcycles and didn't have room or need for the LRD2. Two weeks after I bought mine I found another one in Albuq. NM needing a water pump and he wanted $1000. I prefer to buy cheap and build unless you can find something already built and has decent low mileage on the engine. Your # 3 doesn't sound too bad since it has mods that would cost you apx. $2500 + alone. You didn't sy what year model but they are good vehicles in my minds eye. I hope you get good advise in making your choice. I would rather build my rig, that way I know what it has and if it was done right. The jeep parts will be the least expensive and the LRD2 will cost the most just because of their name. If you have a good LRD2 there is nothing better IMO. There are a lot of Toyotas out there, most will cost you a bunch because of their reputation but if you can find one, either PU or SUV at a reasonable price, they are dependable. I have posted two in the last month that I thought were good buys. What is your budget ?
They might look over price but it's in Cnd dollar. My budget for this year I would say is 5k. But for that price I would want something really good. I could have bought the 2004 Disco 2 for 3500$ but was out of town and someone else bought it. I feel that if I can find something around the 3k I would be left with enough money for a lift and tires if needed.