Blood Clotter

[Ashton]

Doing a little research on creating my own Kaolin impregnated gauze and stuffing and thought I'd come stimulate this interesting topic on here. I've been investigating using half parts clay and cayenne pepper (for it's clotting and antiviral/bacterial properties) Anyone use their own mix, or have their own procedure?

Quickclot and clox has become much cheaper lately, but I'm looking for an easily renewable and self sufficient way of making this stuff for ifak's and med bags. And I enjoy doing things like this and resisting the main stream, so it works for me.

Also, what other pieces of kit do you swear by on your traveling first aid pack? Do you include minor sickness stuff as well, trauma based, orthopedics, medications?

 

[ASRussell]

I always carry a tourniquet, a few pressure dressings, an Israeli bandage, and a splint.....I also caryy other odds and ends

 

[Ashton]

I agree, in this day and age having 3 sets of GSW treatment options (blood clot, bandage, chest seal, TQ and decompress needle per kit) is probably how I'll finish out this kit. Keeping a small medic bag with some basics is only used on trips over a few days and really i only add a few ace bandages, some basic bandaids and abx ointment, and some common OTC meds. In my day pack, for hiking, I keep electrolyte packs, basic bandaids/coban for deal with blisters, ace wraps and some gloves and alcohol for cleaning. I'm going to add some blood clot to the pack, in case of a more serious accident. For hiking, I don't usually see a need for a TQ and chest seal and those items specific to GSW treatment.

 

[MarcosV1017]

If you havent made your clotter yet, i would suggest not going with Cyanne pepper as it will probably have capsacin in it and you will likely prefer the GSW to it. Also, we should all be critical when it comes to "characteristics" of marketed goods. If you find claims, see if there is science or evidence behind them. Some things also have certain applications and roles inside and outside of the body, and often they cant be interchanged. Regardless, a good rule of thumb is to try and keep everything going into your body as clean/ sterile as possible. No sense in surviving a gunshot just to get septic shock and die hours later.

In all seriousness though, if i were to try something like this, i would figure out how to refine my own potato starch (probably dehydrate, then put in a blender until a fine powder) and use that as my base. Potato starch is used in ORs and is branded Arista. Its absorbable by the body and also functions as a scafolding for platelet aggregation, which is how most of these things work including gauze (without pressure).

As far as sterility, the closest thing to an autoclave an everyday person has access to is a pressure cooker with mason jars. I havent tried placing dry things into a mason jar and boiling it, but it might work, or it may give you a paste, or one solid block. You may have to play around with the formula or method, but its a start.

There may also be a way to do this with an oven and sterilization pouches for dry heat (ebay). You can also buy dry heat indicator strips to dial in the time and temperature that you need in order to acheive a sterile batch. A pouch may come with an indicator on the outside, but try putting one right in the middle of your choice of powder.

Another idea would be to add other powders to this like ferric chloride or ferric sulphate (Monsel's in the medical world). I was going to look this up at one point but I added the page to my reading list and then forgot .

Just my ideas on approaching this. I havent tried any of these. Im not recommending that you do. This was merely showing how i would approach this . I am not a liscenced medical provder. if you chose to do any of the things that i have mentioned above, it is at your own risk.

 

[MarcosV1017]

http://traumamon.com/en/articles/19364.html
Here's the article on ferric sulfate and chloride that i was going to read. A table in there caught my eye about its hemostatic properties, but the real reason I placed it on my reading list was to read the pro's and con's in the discussion section. Havent gotten to it yet though.

 

[Ashton]

http://traumamon.com/en/articles/19364.html
Here's the article on ferric sulfate and chloride that i was going to read. A table in there caught my eye about its hemostatic properties, but the real reason I placed it on my reading list was to read the pro's and con's in the discussion section. Havent gotten to it yet though.

Great thoughts Marcos. Having been used for centuries, I'm confident in the literature behind using cayenne pepper as a antibacterial agent. The idea of potato powder is a good idea to mix in to help with clot matrix development and I'll look into it. Having a clotting powder in my IFAK is more a matter of immediate treatment on scene to stabilize for transport to a more definitive care center, so the long term risk of wound infection looses out to risk of death from blood loss. They can always IV abx the patient when they get in a rig or to the ED.

So far I've looked at using tumeric and cayenne powder as a mix and was looking at silica, clay or other substrates as a base (and now potato powder). I haven't made any yet, but the ingredients are cheap, easy to obtain and prepare.

 

[MarcosV1017]

I havent looked into those natural alternatives. My main hesitation with cyanne pepper would be the capsaicin. Maybe im just a whimp.
I would still urge anyone making a homemade kit to properly sterilize it if they can. It just depends on how far you are from the hospital, but something the medical industry keeps learning is that better prehospital care, leads to a decrease in morbidity and mortality across the board. This is especially true in trauma.
You can get small sterilization pouches and make 30 at a time or so. The approach to using natural compunds like this may be that certain molecules responsible for their properties may break down with heat.

 

[Ashton]

Good point about the improvement of prehospital care improving overall patient health. I have access to a autoclave at work, but I wouldn't know how to test the result to see if it still has the properties I intended it for. Well, more research!

 

[El Solis]

Just going to throw this out there: the powders can be very difficult to remove in the operating room, sometimes causing more harm to remove than the original injury. I prefer the gauze for this reason and it’s what I use in the OR and in the field. Not to knock the effort of making your own.

 

[Ashton]

Just going to throw this out there: the powders can be very difficult to remove in the operating room, sometimes causing more harm to remove than the original injury. I prefer the gauze for this reason and it’s what I use in the OR and in the field. Not to knock the effort of making your own.

Good info!! I had started this quest looking for a way to make my own impregnated gauze using lanolin clay and an abx powder mixed in. I have used celox powder and celox impregnated gauze and the gauze application is MUCH easier.

 

[MarcosV1017]

This is good to know. My only experience with Arista is all of the general surgeons and OB/GYNs sprinkle it on top of areas where they have had to extensively cauterize or work on and dont want to take the risk of rebleeding. From the sounds of it, sometimes it's for peace of mind of the doc. My exposure to trauma ORs is limited.

 

[old_man]

We used to have a big bottle of some kind of powder we would buy at the Vet Clinic for use on the cows and horses. It was cheap and worked well on human critters as well.

 

[gabe]

I applaud your initiative and efforts in developing your own quickclot type of product but I have one curiosity. How are you going to test the product? I have used different hemostatic agents for many years in training and in combat and they really work. I would hate to cook something up and find I did not use enough of one ingredient or too much of another in a life threatening situation. I would love to see what you develop. Stay the course.

 

[Dennis Cole]

I'm with Gabe. I would only use on my loved ones chemicals that have been tested.

 

[Rogue7]

If your using any form of Hemostatic agent in the field, then your in serious trouble. If a pressure dressing does not stop the bleeding, then you need help.
There are risk factors to giving or placing any type of medication onto or in a Human especially if you don't know what is in it.

I am new here but not new to Trauma, so forgive me if I offend anyone. But, the average Joe tends to carry way too much stuff in his kit.

Having one trained/experienced person with and extensive kit within the group is a better practice.

The best item to carry is a form of satellite beacon transmitter. Stabilization and evacuation.


I've been in the medical field for 26 years and treated more trauma than I care to remember.

 

[MidOH]

I don't understand exactly what kind of wound would require quick clot, but quick clot would actually help and not make things worse.

Bad laceration and losing too much blood? Ok maybe.
GSW, no thanks. I take my chances.

From what I've been told, the quick clot that you're carrying, isn't for you to use. It's for your medic to use. Not for amateurs.

 

[El Solis]

Quikclot is gauze with fancy clotting stuff in it. Anyone can use it. It can be used in/on all wounds. If you have it and someone or yourself is bleeding, use it. You will never regret it and it saves you the “what if’s”.

 

[MidOH]

Sorry, I was thinking of the pourable powder stuff.

 

[Cort]

Gun shot wounds are not all you use hemostatic agent on. Let’s be honest, you are far more likely to get in a car accident, gash from a hatchet, fall on a tent stake, etc.

I think with the impregnated gauze that is readily available it’s silly not to have in a first aid kit. The stuff is really affordable now too. I even keep 2 pieces of blood stop in my wallet and use it a lot.(1”x1” gauze square with hemostatic agent). As a dad and outdoorsman I find a lot of cut fingers that bleed a lot.

I feel it very risky to make your own hemostatic agent even if you only use it on yourself or loved ones. It’s asking for heartbreak, legal action, and liability. I’m curious where this lands in the “practice within the scope of practice” legalities.

I see so many people focus on crazy med stuff that is extremely expensive and truth be told they aren’t trained to use like airways, decompression needles, chest seals, etc. Watching YouTube videos isn’t sufficient training to use this stuff.

What I use the most in my first aid kits?
Band aids. Waterproof, finger tip, and knuckle.
Aleave, Asprin, Advil
Triple antibiotic
Anti Diarrhetic
In that order.

Glucose gel is in so many first aid kits and the stuff is junk. Not because it doesn’t work, because it tastes so freaking bad that I’ve never seen anyone be able to successfully administer it. The patient will always spit it out and/or gag. Don’t waste your money on this stuff, a snickers bar is far better(matter of fact, it’s about the perfect balance of sugar, protein, carbs for physical outdoor activity).

I have a trauma pack which is separate from my boo boo kit that includes Sam splints, celox, irrigation syringe, Israeli bandages, etc. I used to have an auto injector but they are just too expensive now and I don’t need it for myself or my kids luckily. I have tourniquets everywhere, unwrapped, and prepped for use. Most of the time, if you need it you likely won’t be too mobile. I have a TQ and Israeli bandage in my truck driver door pocket, a TQ in my center console, my SAR pack in the back of the truck, my chainsaw kit, on my rifle butt stock to name a few. I use CAT tourniquets exclusively, swat t are good too. I personally don’t think you can get good occlusion with the RATS that is so popular due to social media marketing.

 

[MunsterGeo Overland]

Gun shot wounds are not all you use hemostatic agent on. Let’s be honest, you are far more likely to get in a car accident, gash from a hatchet, fall on a tent stake, etc.

I think .........

100% agree with everything you've said.

The vast majority of things I've used in anger have been the boo boo items. Small cuts, grazes, twisted ankles, splinters, minor burns, bumped heads.

I'm delighted by this. Really delighted.
Don't get me wrong I've seen plenty of trauma but definitive care has been available in the majority of cases in a time frame where a casualty will not require me to do much more than an assessment and treatment to stabilise where required until professional assistance arrives. One or two incidents did require a little more but nothing that couldn't be handled with a small appropriately stocked outdoors kit. I hope never again to see a broken damaged body but am trained (and continue to train and practice to advance my skill set) to a level where I can provide assistance and care to a particular level. I know what that level is and what equipment I'm trained to use.

You won't find a single item in any of my kits that's home made or above my current level of training. A kit will change depending on the activity or expedition and risk involved. Nothing is carried in excess of the likelihood of the assessed risk.

Example, on a mountain trip in most of Europe I'd treat a scalp or lower leg laceration with a dressing and bandage after thoroughly cleaning the wound as much as can be done in the field. Professional help would not likely be more than 8 hours or so away. A trip outside of Europe to a region where it may take up to three days to receive definitive medical care I'd carry a stapler (and staple remover) as a back up and last resort to use if absolutely necessary taking into account the very real infection risk involved of closing a wound in the field.

Hemostatic gauze, Celox, Quikclot etc... is VERY expensive here in Ireland but having said that I have one or two hemostatic impregnated items that I use on a bleed as required. Have you seen how much a cut finger can bleed? I'm sure you have and a hemostatic agent is incredibly useful on cuts as fingers are small while dressings are bulky... It's self explanatory really.

The more I've had the privilege of learning the less bulky my kits become. It's knowledge backed up by appropriate equipment that successfully treats casualties in the outdoor setting rather than a kit full of fancy items.

Glucose gel or dextrose sweets? A bar of chocolate is as effective, cheaper and not at all likely to be spat out. Ask me how I know this...

The majority of incidents handled by the average outdoors person will thankfully fall into the boo boo category, so spend your hard earned cash on good quality plasters, antiseptic wipes, medical tape, etc.... rather than fancy bulky items. Commercially produced hemostatic items, yes I definitely use on cuts.