When does cost of a vehicle to build matter to you?

[MazeVX]

Simply not true—new rigs require the same maintenance as a old rig. Parts on new rigs begin to fail when they are just out of warranty, unless you are suggesting that one should always buy a new vehicle as soon as their current vehicle is out of warranty..

Not really, except you perform a extremely serious rebuild of the old vehicle.
A new vehicle needs maintenance, true. Everything needs maintenance.
With most of the new vehicles you don't need to think about corrosion or material fatigue, but you will run into corrosion and fatigue with every old rig.
No matter how often you maintain your axles, the shock bracket will suffer from fatigue over the years (miles) a new axle is new and it will take a while to run into fatigue problems. Yes you can weld, you can reinforce and replace but all that takes time, money and lasts but not least, most important, it takes effort.
I'm a car guy, I grew up with old cars, my dad did several restorations over his years so I know about it.
The question is, are you willing to put constant effort into the tool? Because as much as we love our rigs, in the end they are just the tools that takes us out there.

I, for myself, made a decision that I am no longer willing to put constant effort into the tool, my limited time is to precious to me.
I still work a lot on my rig, because it's a jeep you know...
I'm not criticize anyone who is into old rigs. I would love to have something old and cool to cruise around Sundays but I wouldn't take it on a long distance trip.
It's just my opinion, nothing more.

 

[MOAK]

Not really, except you perform a extremely serious rebuild of the old vehicle.
A new vehicle needs maintenance, true. Everything needs maintenance.
With most of the new vehicles you don't need to think about corrosion or material fatigue, but you will run into corrosion and fatigue with every old rig.
No matter how often you maintain your axles, the shock bracket will suffer from fatigue over the years (miles) a new axle is new and it will take a while to run into fatigue problems. Yes you can weld, you can reinforce and replace but all that takes time, money and lasts but not least, most important, it takes effort.
I'm a car guy, I grew up with old cars, my dad did several restorations over his years so I know about it.
The question is, are you willing to put constant effort into the tool? Because as much as we love our rigs, in the end they are just the tools that takes us out there.

I, for myself, made a decision that I am no longer willing to put constant effort into the tool, my limited time is to precious to me.
I still work a lot on my rig, because it's a jeep you know...
I'm not criticize anyone who is into old rigs. I would love to have something old and cool to cruise around Sundays but I wouldn't take it on a long distance trip.
It's just my opinion, nothing more.

True, people think I’m nuts for trusting a 23 year old vehicle, it’s all just about our wants and opinions..

 

[Msfitoy]

I start my project with the usual, "honey I need a new daily...just going to put wheel/tires"...promise

Seriously, I did need a daily driver that was more practical than my 10+ year old Cobalt SS...so the only reasonable choice was to go with Ford since I start with X plan discount...getting FX4 package was a must for the planned excursions costed me around 36k out the door...from there, a little mod here and there over the months and years would get me something much more enjoyable and customized to my tastes...plus I can stop counting

 

[MazeVX]

True, people think I’m nuts for trusting a 23 year old vehicle, it’s all just about our wants and opinions..

Never call you nuts!
If my capabilities were better, my workshop bigger and I would have more free time with my brain not running with "check engine" light lit, I would have bought a old rig and rebuild it and actually trust it. For sure I would.

 

[grubworm]

I, for myself, made a decision that I am no longer willing to put constant effort into the tool, my limited time is to precious to me.

Yeah, that's my line of thinking, too. I do a lot of wood working and machining and know a few folk who go to auctions and get old equipment and then spent a LOT of time and money having to refurb it. That's great and I applaud them, but I'm buying a tool to do a task and so there is not any value in that to me. My truck is a tool to me...use it, abuse it, get another one. There is no right or wrong, just what works for you and any like minded folk that feel the same. I totally respect dudes that can refurb old stuff, thats a skill in itself and one I don't have. Like I said, no right or wrong but we all have to be different, otherwise life would be boring. I love listening to people on how to rebuild stuff and I think as men, its pretty much what we do...build and fix things, but when it comes to stuff like vehicles and tools, I buy new, get all I can out it and then replace when needs be. Its a tool, not an investment to me.
The cool thing is that no matter how we chose to do things, at the end of the day we all get to where we want to go and we have fun when we get there!

 

[DrivingTacoLoco]

I totally get it, I’ve gone without new fancy stuff for a loooong time.
From my off-roading history, I’ve always had quite a few people I’ve gone rock crawling with (rubicon, fordyce and others) that it was expected for someone to break and one of the crew including myself had the capability to repair or carry the parts to fix on the trail. But fast forward to today and myself now going in the middle of nowhere and no cell service for miles is my gist of my question. It’s more likely a rig with 100-200k miles is more likely for something to fail regardless. Shoot, just this weekend my 400 mile round trip to Carson River in Gardnerville I developed a suspension clunk (sway bar bushings) and a check engine light (o2 sensor)
The time before that, I didn’t make it 40 miles from home and the engine started overheating.
I’ve got 197k on my WJ and I’m constantly concerned what’s next?! Like I said, I’ve been a FCA technician for 25 years and I know how to fix my rig no problem.....when I have access to all my tools and parts stores.

I'm surprised you have that many miles on a Jeep and are even asking the question. You have gotten your monies worth out of it. Time to get something more reliable. If not new than find something with around 100K. $15-20K should do it and you will have a reliable vehicle. If you go with Toyota than figure 100K without much trouble maybe 50K with a Jeep. The Toyota should be good for 300K while a Jeep is past it's expiration date at 150K-200K. It's all about the engineering. My brother works for Chysler. After working with the engineers there he would never buy one. Company culture is they just don't care. As long as it last past the warranty their happy.

I've always wanted another jeep after my 1952 M38 I had in high school but I needed something different. Now that I am about to retire I had to make the same purchase decision. I've watched too many videos with Jeeps breaking down. Not worth the risk to me.

Just my 2 cents

Whichever way you go good luck. Hope to see you on the trails.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Here’s the thing TJDon, it all depends on how much money one chooses to spend for vehicles over the course of their lifetime.. very much like boots, 300 for a pair of Asolos or Redwings, that’ll last for 10 years and more, or 100 for a pair that will last for 2 years or less— more power to those guys that purchase a new vehicle every 5 years and kit it out, keeps the economy rolling ..

To me a new vehicle and the added modifications buy someone other than the owner is a bummer. I think when I see such a rig that the owner isn't capable of doing the work to build a rig, (I could easily be wrong because not everybody walks in the same shoes) but he wants to enjoy the sport or hobby, is in an altogether different world than I am. We have nothing in common. Nothing !!! I'm not in the same league as 80% of the people in OB , going by the rigs I see posted day after day. I don't care (to be honest ) what you drive but I can say I will seek out the guys I know build their own Rigs sooner than I would buddy up with the guy with the $60,000 + rigs that know nothing other than how to spend their money on equipment. There is not a lot of them out there on the trail but they are there just the same and belong to OB and other org's. as they should be.

Those guys you say buy the $100 boots are the ones like me who spend $1000 to get in the rig and $20,000 + over the years to have a competent rig more than equal to the store bought rigs in the long run.. I plan to keep my rig the rest of my life (which wont be long). I'm not about to rebuild a new rig every 5 years or so only to start all over again 5 years later. My rig is not my daily driver. It's my OB rig. This is where I agree with @BillyBob (and others). His projects are a never ending projects as are many others here in OB, we are not alone I know. @TJDon is NOT wrong, he has capabilities that I sure don't have. That is why I posted recently that I'm not about to go anywhere in the boonies without a traveling partner. I know any vehicle can break, even new ones. Not all drivers have the same capabilities or skills and I have seen many new rigs hopelessly derailed from action and abandoned to the elements of nature.

The question: When does the cost of a vehicle to build, matter to you ? Answer: When you have enough money it doesn't matter !

 

[Downs]

Im driving a 95 XJ. My repair costs are still less than a monthly payment on a newer vehicle. That adds up to a lot of gasoline over time

 

[Ghost]

I just went though this. A lot of factors came into play. I commute a rural road about 15K a year along with another 7-10K in my free time. I’ve been doing that in an 06 Carolla that’s been bulletproof for reliability but it was pushing 225k miles. My off road vehicle had been a 2000 4runner that also had over 220K miles in it and only driven on the weekends. Both ran well but the list of issues with the 4Runner was growing. Being that I wrench on equipment for a living it’s really the last thing I want to do on my days off. For me it’s work and not a hobby or something I get satisfaction in doing. Having owned a Tacoma in the past and knowing a manager of a local dealership I went down and pulled the trigger on a new Tacoma trd off-road. Financially I agree on the drawbacks to purchasing new, but having a good chunk of cash to put down our payment is actually less than I spend on Copenhagen every month and way less than our fuel costs living where we do. I now also have fun driving home from work in that I can comfortably take 15 miles of forest service road home a couple days a week. Wasn’t doing that in my Carolla. I’ll also add that this is probably going to be the rig my oldest daughter ends up driving when she gets her license in 4 years. If she can afford it? I’ll make her a deal but she will pay cash for it just like mom & dad did when they were sixteen. By then it will be time to buy my retirement rig. The last one I purchase and drive while trying to outrun Mr. Grim. As far as what works for others, what’s the smart thing to do, I don’t really know? Everyone has different needs, mechanical skills, tastes in vehicles, and financial limitations. If that wasn’t the case I’d be rolling down under in some red dirt this afternoon vs hitting the backroads of Washington State.

 

[oldmopars]

When you all say old, what is "Old"? As a former mechanic there are "era's" of cars/trucks I would run away from. A lot of the American cars/trucks in the 90's-2000's were just junk. Poor design, unreliable, and over complicated systems that fail more than they work.
My rig is a Square Body Suburban, in my opinion the last of the simple trucks of the 70's-80's. As another poster said, I like simple.
So, buy new vs. used? Old vs. new? Cost vs. wrenching? I think there are a lot of factors to look at. My rig is old, 30 years old, but it is simple and easy to fix if it breaks, and there is no cheaper vehicle to buy parts for than an old Chevy.
I understand the allure of a new vehicle, but for me the payments take all the joy out of it. The $800 a month payment feels to me like a mill stone around my neck. Yes I have owned several new cars and made the payments. The whole time I was always looking for a way out, no fun.
Me personally, I would take an old GM, Ford, Dodge, Toyota, etc. with a simple engine, solid axles and no payment over a shiny new $800 a month Gee-Wizz fancy rig any day.

I guess we are all different and have different needs and wants. I just came back from doing almost 200 miles of back roads. I have a lot of pin stripes and a dent in my gas tank skid plate to show for it. If that was a new rig I would not be happy. But I just smile because it is paid for and the paint job was no even close to perfect before I started.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Not really, except you perform a extremely serious rebuild of the old vehicle.
A new vehicle needs maintenance, true. Everything needs maintenance.
With most of the new vehicles you don't need to think about corrosion or material fatigue, but you will run into corrosion and fatigue with every old rig.
No matter how often you maintain your axles, the shock bracket will suffer from fatigue over the years (miles) a new axle is new and it will take a while to run into fatigue problems. Yes you can weld, you can reinforce and replace but all that takes time, money and lasts but not least, most important, it takes effort.
I'm a car guy, I grew up with old cars, my dad did several restorations over his years so I know about it.
The question is, are you willing to put constant effort into the tool? Because as much as we love our rigs, in the end they are just the tools that takes us out there.

I, for myself, made a decision that I am no longer willing to put constant effort into the tool, my limited time is to precious to me.
I still work a lot on my rig, because it's a jeep you know...
I'm not criticize anyone who is into old rigs. I would love to have something old and cool to cruise around Sundays but I wouldn't take it on a long distance trip.
It's just my opinion, nothing more.

Ob is a hobby in practice for when TSHTF as I see it. I built my first race car from scratch because I couldn't afford to pay someone to build it. I wanted to drive and race. After the first year I started to wonder why I spent 60 hours a week building my car and tearing it up on the week ends. I got to the point I was obsessed with the building because it became a personal thing to win and to win because the car was built to win. I didn't drive that much after the first year even though I proved to myself I could drive and win.. The next ten years I mostly build new race cars, not just for me but for my friends as well. Now that love for building has turned to off road vehicles. I don't have the money to have the best as I did with my race cars. I am in the sport for fun and the love of automobiles that do funny things in the water, dirt, rocks, mud or any other obstacle and keep going on to the final destination. So if you have reasons that differ from me, it's okay. I have no one else to look after on or off the road but me. We have different goals yet they are similar. I don't work, I don't read, I don't watch TV, I have no other interest, I have an off road rig in my head that needs attention all the time. Nothing else matters to me other than survival. When I die, bury me in my rig so I can go off roading in heaven or hell.

 

[Billiebob]

If my capabilities were better, my workshop bigger and I would have more free time I would have bought a old rig and rebuild it and actually trust it.

See thats why rigs, new and old break down. You don't need any of that, you just need a good shop/mechanic to service it twice a year. I don't touch my 14 year old Jeep, I just take it to a professional often. My previous Wrangler was 25 years old when I sold it. Even for oil changes, it goes to the shop because he also checks the driveline, brakes, steering, lighting.....

 

[Billiebob]

My rig is a Square Body Suburban, in my opinion the last of the simple trucks of the 70's-80's.

Agreed, altho Dodges were equal to square bodies until 1993, Ford gave up on the simple theme in 1980.
But I still prefer early 1960s 4x4s with steel dash boards and zero emissions crap.
Nothing simpler or cleaner than a 1960s 4x4 with a straight six.

I have a simple goal for my next vehicle... It MUST have a carburetor.
Which will guarantee it will have a cast iron block, head, tranny, transfer case and no computers.

 

[CR-Venturer]

Not really, except you perform a extremely serious rebuild of the old vehicle.
A new vehicle needs maintenance, true. Everything needs maintenance.
With most of the new vehicles you don't need to think about corrosion or material fatigue, but you will run into corrosion and fatigue with every old rig.
No matter how often you maintain your axles, the shock bracket will suffer from fatigue over the years (miles) a new axle is new and it will take a while to run into fatigue problems. Yes you can weld, you can reinforce and replace but all that takes time, money and lasts but not least, most important, it takes effort.
I'm a car guy, I grew up with old cars, my dad did several restorations over his years so I know about it.
The question is, are you willing to put constant effort into the tool? Because as much as we love our rigs, in the end they are just the tools that takes us out there.

I, for myself, made a decision that I am no longer willing to put constant effort into the tool, my limited time is to precious to me.
I still work a lot on my rig, because it's a jeep you know...
I'm not criticize anyone who is into old rigs. I would love to have something old and cool to cruise around Sundays but I wouldn't take it on a long distance trip.
It's just my opinion, nothing more.

You bring up a good point. The phrase that comes to my mind as I read what you're writing is "diminishing returns." In my mind, I try to strike a balance between economy and diminishing returns. The thing about my particular vehicle is that it has a lot going for it in this department. The vehicle is extremely well made to begin with, so they have few problems as a rule, they made a ton of them, so there are a lot of them still driving around, and parts are readily available on the cheap, and because it's an old vehicle, they can be bought relatively inexpensively, so even if my whole unibody completely crumpled due to metal fatigue, I could probably buy another RD1 CR-V that some old granny has been babying since she bought it brand new and just transfer all my upgrades directly onto the new ride, and away we go! Once that equation becomes out of balance, though, it's probably time to get something newer.

 

[Downs]

See thats why rigs, new and old break down. You don't need any of that, you just need a good shop/mechanic to service it twice a year. I don't touch my 14 year old Jeep, I just take it to a professional often. My previous Wrangler was 25 years old when I sold it. Even for oil changes, it goes to the shop because he also checks the driveline, brakes, steering, lighting.....

Congrats on winning tbe mechanic lottery. Too many today are crooked and just as likely to bill you for services never performed than actually do any real work.

 

[Billiebob]

Congrats on winning tbe mechanic lottery. Too many today are crooked and just as likely to bill you for services never performed than actually do any real work.

not an issue whereI live

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Agreed, altho Dodges were equal to square bodies until 1993, Ford gave up on the simple theme in 1980.
But I still prefer early 1960s 4x4s with steel dash boards and zero emissions crap.
Nothing simpler or cleaner than a 1960s 4x4 with a straight six.

I have a simple goal for my next vehicle... It MUST have a carburetor.
Which will guarantee it will have a cast iron block, head, tranny, transfer case and no computers.

Yeah, a good old 300 c.i. ford straight six with a single 4 barrel 500 cfm double pumper Holly carb and off road cam.
A few more minor alterations and that's my next engine I will own even if I have to put it in my Land Rover. I may even build this.....

 

[bmwguru]

Congrats on winning tbe mechanic lottery. Too many today are crooked and just as likely to bill you for services never performed than actually do any real work.

Not sure where you are getting your work done but that is an insult to an honest technician like myself.

 

[oldmopars]

While I don't see myself as a Chevy fan, it is hard to beat a Small Block Chevy engine for reliability and ease of getting parts and cheap. My truck is 30 years old, but came with a GM factory crate engine installed with a new trans. All the accessories were new too. So, while it is 30 years old, most of the mechanicals are less than 1 year old. I figure I am good for another 100K.

However, the 6 cylinder and V8 Ford and Dodge engines are good too, just not as big of an aftermarket following. I would say Ford is second and Dodge trails by a fair bit.

 

[Downs]

Not sure where you are getting your work done but that is an insult to an honest technician like myself.

Its not my fault the industry has that stigma attached to it. Ive had the worst luck with shops working on any of my stuff. I can count on one hand with fingers left over how many places i trust to even check the air pressure in my tires.

Theres only one place here close to me now i trust and its a mom and pop independent place on the other side of town. They do good work and its where i go to have stuff i don't have time to do done.