What makes a car capable enough to join the OB trips?

[theoutbackdream]

A spacer lift on a Subaru is different from a body lift on a vehicle with a frame. The spacers go at the top of the springs and shocks. That moves the whole independent suspension arm down by the size of the spacer while retaining the full amount of up and down travel. It does however have the same effect on cv joints that a traditional lift has.

So a 1 inch spacer lift on a unibody vehicle gains you one inch of clearance.

Edit: At least, that's what I learned when I researched it while fantasizing about taking a wrx on trails.

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Hmm, so then how about on a 4runner? The spacers go ontop of the springs/shocks, doesn't it?

 

[theoutbackdream]

In answer to the tire question, you would go to AT tires when your all season tires run out of grip or are not strong enough for the conditions. Simply moving from P tires to LT tires will give you better sidewall protection. I had Geolandar AT tires on my Outback.


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What do you mean, "strong enough for the conditions"? Is there a tell tale sign or rule of thumb when I should look into AT tires?

 

[theoutbackdream]

In a very similar boat here, I've a 2015 Forester with no lift and stock tires leaving me with about 8.9inches of clearance in the front and 12 in the back. The main problem I see with a Subaru for overlanding is how low the critical driveline and engine components sit. Just like OP mentioned earlier, these oil pans can get crunched if you're not careful. That being said, I'm curious if anybody builds really rock solid underbody armor for these models. I know primitive racing is out there but there's gotta be somebody else building sliders or other things like that, hopefully for lower cost.

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Yea, Subaru's components sit extremely low. So even though I have 7" of ground clearance at the pinch welds, it's more realistically like 5" considering the diffs, and a few things.

AFAIK, there are no real rock solid armor kits for our subaru's. There have been people who DIY their armor though...

 

[RyanC]

Hmm, so then how about on a 4runner? The spacers go ontop of the springs/shocks, doesn't it?

Steve has a 4runner. I will let him speak to that.

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[STPICKENS]

Don't want to be bothersome, and trust me i've tried googling around to even understand what it all means before typing it out. Just worried i'd get flamed. lol

Even reading over what you've typed, I'm still very confused.

Reason being, I do understand that a shock/strut lift setup does increase travel, changes driving characteristics because of spring rates, dampening, etc. But what I don't get is.. Let's say from the shock mount point on the frame to the eye of strut mount to the control arm. Let's say Company X has a strut/shock combo that lifts the vehicle 3", so from the shock mount point to the eye of the strut mount, it's 30". Then a spacer lift that does the same 3", and brings the stock strut from 27" to 30", much like Company X's strut/shock combo. Ignoring other characteristics that may change how much of a lift you get, isn't it ultimately the same? I think this is the issue i'm having going around in my head.

Or we talking about two completely different things? I'm talking about the spacer that goes on top of the tophat.

I don't get how the spacer lift doesn't lift the car since I've been looking at some spacer kits for the 4runner, and it appears that the whole car got lifted even with stock tires? Am I missing something here?

When you look at suspension spacers say a 1" lift. This will give you a static lift of 1" guarantee. This will not give you another 1" of suspension. Now if your brand x suspension company offers a 1" suspension lift kit typically this will give you 1" more suspension travel over stock. So if stock suspension gives you 8" of travel going with brand x you will get 9" of travel. Going with spacers nets you zero more suspension travel just a taller ride height and 1" ground clearance. Plus suspension lifts tend to sag after being broke in after a while and are not the advertised height afterwards.

For example in my case. I have a 2003 Nissan Pathfinder. They only offer 2" suspension lifts. So I went that route. And I bought 1" spacers as well. So after install I have a total of 3" lift. Now after wheeling my suspension settled and I netted 2 3/4 " . No matter what happenes I will always be 1"taller due to the spacers.

I think where people are getting confused is with suspension spacers vs body spacers.

Hopefully this helps. [emoji2]


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[MA_Trooper]

Don't want to be bothersome, and trust me i've tried googling around to even understand what it all means before typing it out. Just worried i'd get flamed. lol

Even reading over what you've typed, I'm still very confused.

Reason being, I do understand that a shock/strut lift setup does increase travel, changes driving characteristics because of spring rates, dampening, etc. But what I don't get is.. Let's say from the shock mount point on the frame to the eye of strut mount to the control arm. Let's say Company X has a strut/shock combo that lifts the vehicle 3", so from the shock mount point to the eye of the strut mount, it's 30". Then a spacer lift that does the same 3", and brings the stock strut from 27" to 30", much like Company X's strut/shock combo. Ignoring other characteristics that may change how much of a lift you get, isn't it ultimately the same? I think this is the issue i'm having going around in my head.

Or we talking about two completely different things? I'm talking about the spacer that goes on top of the tophat.

I don't get how the spacer lift doesn't lift the car since I've been looking at some spacer kits for the 4runner, and it appears that the whole car got lifted even with stock tires? Am I missing something here?

I wrote that before knowing you were talking about a spacer on suspension lift. I thought you were talking about a body lift. That said, and I don't have evidence to back it up, suspension extending spacers scare me a bit. Instead of having your suspension attached directly to the vehicle, its attached to a something that is attached to your vehicle. I like to keep my potential fail points to a minimum. Again, personal preference. Can't really comment on suspension spacers as I have never had them.

 

[MA_Trooper]

When you look at suspension spacers say a 1" lift. This will give you a static lift of 1" guarantee. This will not give you another 1" of suspension. Now if your brand x suspension company offers a 1" suspension lift kit typically this will give you 1" more suspension travel over stock. So if stock suspension gives you 8" of travel going with brand x you will get 9" of travel. Going with spacers nets you zero more suspension travel just a taller ride height and 1" ground clearance. Plus suspension lifts tend to sag after being broke in after a while and are not the advertised height afterwards.

For example in my case. I have a 2003 Nissan Pathfinder. They only offer 2" suspension lifts. So I went that route. And I bought 1" spacers as well. So after install I have a total of 3" lift. Now after wheeling my suspension settled and I netted 2 3/4 " . No matter what happenes I will always be 1"taller due to the spacers.

I think where people are getting confused is with suspension spacers vs body spacers.

Hopefully this helps. [emoji2]


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This is what I was eluding to when talking about not gaining suspension travel with spacers.

 

[Brooks Travel Adventures]

I forgot about the uni-body. So yes, you will get some clearance, but still not going to have increased travel as that is gained by the longer springs/struts. And keep in mind that actual clearance/height gain is really achieved by increased tire size. so if you only do the spacers then, sure you gain a little, but its not anything like what larger tires will give you.

Edit: And as mentioned above, this has the same affect on your CV joints as a suspension lift.

Yea with the 2" lift on the pilot they say you can clear 31" tires. Not sure if I would go that big due to strain on the drivetrain but we will see when I get there. Stock I think is about 29" if I am Not mistaken. I have put stock size A/T tires on for now to help with traction in sandy/muddy conditions but once I have the lift in place I will see what I do about the tires. The spacer lift for the pilot is about $700 and I have other gear that is more important at this time.


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[Rusty burbin]

I think it is knowing your limitations and having gear that will get you out of trouble. Knowing where you are going, and what the capibilities of your rig are. I have a 2wd Nissan Rogue. It is my daily driver, and I have to keep that at the fore front of whatever I do. I would like to do that Mojave Road trip, but I simply do not have that capability and don't want to put anyone out. So I stay on generally dirt roads, that were improved at some point. I am not crawling up or down any rocks, nor do I want to. At some point I may buy something used to do this, but till than I go only where I know I can, but I still have fun and find great places.

There are some great fire roads that will take ya pretty deep into the hills... sometimes those runs are the funnest ones and no real danger of breaking down or getting stuck.

And I have found that a 2WD rig with a locker can go just about anywhere a 4x4 with open diffs can go... in fact I was at koh in Feb and my front output snapped at the tcase... I still went just about everywhere I went last year (no locker last year) it was pretty impressive from my point of view.

But yeah, if you're not sure you can do it, don't try it.

Rustyburbin from SoCal 5 kids, wife, dog and a 1970 K20 Suburban

 

[BeardedJeeper-JKU]

The problem i think with strut/suspension spacers is the stress they put on the stock suspension. You are essentially giving them more room to travel but with them being a shorter strut the bottom out real quick. Also produces a horrible ride... real bumpy.

I have strut spacers on the front of my triton (L200) but will upgrade them soon for a proper suspension lift with taller struts. Yes they give me a bit more height but i fear cheaping out to get that height will cost me in the long run.

Also they are somewhat illegal in most states here in australia. But ssshhhh lol

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[Baby Jeep Overland]

It doesn't matter what you drive!
That being said a spotter and recovery gear are very import. It also depends on the amount of damage you can handle.
I am at just under 12" of clearance but I have aluminum bumpers, skidplates and rock sliders so I can push pretty hard. My issue is lack of power so I have to knkw the terrain and inclines very well before I pack for a trip.

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[Lindenwood]

There are also spacer lifts that simply increase preload on the coil by mounting inside the strut assemply. This increases static ride height in the same way a longer coil spring woul, without necessarily limiting available travel. My wife's 2016 4Runner TRD Pro is lifted 2" front and rear with this method.

As far as getting out with an imprezza:

1) If you are looking to trade it toward anofher vehicle soon, I'd honestly hold off. The last thing you want to do is tear off a bumper or scratch the hell out of it before trying to trade it for something you really want.

2) I would be just as concerned with approach and departure angles as breakover angle (center height). So, honestly, I would consider removing the bumpers before testing your limits offroad (see item 1!). Of course, this might come with additional challenges like light mountibg, radiator protection, etc, but could save expensive bodywork if you slightly misjudge an obstacle.

3) I bet you could have some 1/8" steel skid plates made for not a lot of money. Not something you'd want to go bashing down on rocks, but if they are well placed and smooth would absolutely keep you from ripping out your diffs and Tcase on snags. Then, your ability to tackle technical dirt trails will really only be limited by your bumper clearance and ability for the tires to touch the ground when you high-center on a dirt mound!

 

[WhatTheZo]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but an easy way to lift an Impreza is to install Forester struts. I think in the Subaru group we kinda classify thing like "stock Impreza" height as most roads that lead to campsites and graded forestry roads. Forester struts/Outback stock will get you through most unmaintained forestry roads and easy-medium desert trails that don't require crazy articulation Any additional lift below 4" lessens your chance for damage and you can use your discretion on anything medium difficulty. You can go crazy with a 4" spacer/spring combo too!

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[RyanC]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but an easy way to lift an Impreza is to install Forester struts. I think in the Subaru group we kinda classify thing like "stock Impreza" height as most roads that lead to campsites and graded forestry roads. Forester struts/Outback stock will get you through most unmaintained forestry roads and easy-medium desert trails that don't require crazy articulation Any additional lift below 4" lessens your chance for damage and you can use your discretion on anything medium difficulty. You can go crazy with a 4" spacer/spring combo too!

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Will that work on a WRX too?

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[WhatTheZo]

I'd suspect so? Not sure how much a difference the front lip is.

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[Wawa Skittletits]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but an easy way to lift an Impreza is to install Forester struts. I think in the Subaru group we kinda classify thing like "stock Impreza" height as most roads that lead to campsites and graded forestry roads. Forester struts/Outback stock will get you through most unmaintained forestry roads and easy-medium desert trails that don't require crazy articulation Any additional lift below 4" lessens your chance for damage and you can use your discretion on anything medium difficulty. You can go crazy with a 4" spacer/spring combo too!

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Beat me to it. I was going to suggest the longer Forester struts as a great starting point.

There's a wealth of knowledge on this forum about a lot of things but Subaru's aren't one of them haha. There are Subaru build threads and a Subaru registry so they might be a great place to see what we can do with an AWD chasis or even ask questions. Primitive Racing should make armor for your car and that should be a priority. Not because our bellys are fragile but simply for peace of mind. Subaru's are incredibly capable right out of the box so have fun with it.

 

[WhatTheZo]

Yeah we're super protective of our drivetrain and diff. That's priority 1.

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[Ironhide Fx4]

As far as the question of, can I join on the group runs with X kind of rig?

I feel that maybe when a group trip is getting planned there should be a base list of highly recommend, recommend, and nice to have at the start. I have seen this with outfitters that do it for a living. It tells you what you will need to make it through.

For example, let's use the Mojave road trip:
(Keep in mind, I have no idea about this road this is an example)

Highly recommend:
12" ground clearance
Sliders
Extended breathers
Recovery points
AT tires
1 full size spare
5 gallons of water

Recommend:
Extra fuel
Spare air filter
Tire patch kit

Nice to have:
Winch
Extra lights
Spare parts
High lift

I think that gets the basic idea I am trying to say. Maybe they do this already. This just will tell you if you can make it. Also maybe a note of, a stock vehicle can go this route to meet the group at each camp, if possible.

 

[bajatacoguy]

As far as the question of, can I join on the group runs with X kind of rig?

I feel that maybe when a group trip is getting planned there should be a base list of highly recommend, recommend, and nice to have at the start. I have seen this with outfitters that do it for a living. It tells you what you will need to make it through.

For example, let's use the Mojave road trip:
(Keep in mind, I have no idea about this road this is an example)

Highly recommend:
12" ground clearance
Sliders
Extended breathers
Recovery points
AT tires
1 full size spare
5 gallons of water

Recommend:
Extra fuel
Spare air filter
Tire patch kit

Nice to have:
Winch
Extra lights
Spare parts
High lift

I think that gets the basic idea I am trying to say. Maybe they do this already. This just will tell you if you can make it. Also maybe a note of, a stock vehicle can go this route to meet the group at each camp, if possible.

This is a great idea.

I belong to a local group (ExploringNH.com) and they rate the runs from stock to required equipment. This allows a certain amount of confidence that you will not be "that guy" that slows the group, stops a run or ruins your rig.

Example:






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#3533