Trail Security

[RRitchey]

Buffalo Bore makes a 9MM round for bear defence.

They do make some pretty hot 9mm rounds, but you do have to watch chamber pressures.. Going to a +P or +P+ round can get pretty dangerous on weapons not designed for them, a stuck case and failure to load the next round would be one of the least damaging scenarios. I have seen exploded chambers on some of the lesser quality hand guns.. Bad day for the shooter!!

 

[mep1811]

They do make some pretty hot 9mm rounds, but you do have to watch chamber pressures.. Going to a +P or +P+ round can get pretty dangerous on weapons not designed for them, a stuck case and failure to load the next round would be one of the least damaging scenarios. I have seen exploded chambers on some of the lesser quality hand guns.. Bad day for the shooter!!

I believe the use of this ammo is for modern pistols.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I like a good 9mm for practicality. Bear spray is for the bears, I've never felt stopping anything of that size with a handgun is practical. It's a sad reality, but the pistol is reserved for predators of the 2-legged variety.

I've been trying to figure out a good set-up for carrying with a pack. I don't like open-carry because while I don't think it should it clearly makes people uncomfortable and that isn't my goal. Right now I think I'll throw it in a camera pouch on my pack's waist-strap but it's a pretty bulky solution I'm not a huge fan of. My friend still carries appendix but it interferes with his waist-strap a lot and that seems like a pretty uncomfortable solution to me.

As I like to tell my girlfriend, expect the best but be prepared for the worst.

Not being argumentative but anyone who thinks a 9mm will defend against a vicious bear is nieve. I have one but I don't trust it to do anything more than wound a mid sized predator unless you are lucky enough to hit something vital. I find anything short of a 10mm, 44-45 cal bullet or the ideally lethal 357 magnum to be the most effective. That's the 4 legged predator side of carrying.

If you carry a 44 Ruger or S&W magnum, which IMO is needed for bear, you cant very well conceal it. If someone is uncomfortable with me carrying open, then I'm in the wrong environment. If I considered what anyone thinks about what I do, I couldn't leave my house. I quit considering what others think 70 years ago when I became an adult. If you let others control your life in that way you could end up dead. I would rather be prepared for the worst and know that it's best.

As far as long guns in the field, they are fine for hunting and target practice. I take one or more of many varieties with me anytime I go to the boon docks. I wouldn't depend on them for self defense because of their bulkiness and usually being out of reach. The sight of an AR or double barreled shot gun might be a good deterrent in camp if ever confronted by a group of bad guys but that's not as likely in the boon docks. There is only two reasons to carry a firearm into the field. One is self defense (human or 4 legged Predator), the other is for hunting and target practice.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Let me start again by saying I am a gun owner. Have been for decades. But I know that for many people, the sight of a firearm is associated with police or military activity or personnel, and I am neither. So when I carry, I carry concealed unless otherwise mandated.

Also, while I understand this discussion might include talk of firearms, I gotta think there's more to it than that. Bear, buffalo, and other wildlife safety. Locking your gear and your truck. Securing the kayaks on the roof rack. How to reach someone if you do need help. Moving about and making decisions as sensibly as possible to avoid any issues or conflicts that may arise. Hardening yourself and your gear as a target and not appearing as a threat to wildlife -thats kind of what I'm monitoring this thread for, personally. Although I admit I might have missed the OP's point

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Not being argumentative but anyone who thinks a 9mm will defend against a vicious bear is nieve. I have one but I don't trust it to do anything more than wound a mid sized predator unless you are lucky enough to hit something vital. I find anything short of a 10mm, 44-45 cal bullet or the ideally lethal 357 magnum to be the most effective. That's the 4 legged predator side of carrying.

If you carry a 44 Ruger or S&W magnum, which IMO is needed for bear, you cant very well conceal it. If someone is uncomfortable with me carrying open, then I'm in the wrong environment. If I considered what anyone thinks about what I do, I couldn't leave my house. I quit considering what others think 70 years ago when I became an adult. If you let others control your life in that way you could end up dead. I would rather be prepared for the worst and know that it's best.

As far as long guns in the field, they are fine for hunting and target practice. I take one or more of many varieties with me anytime I go to the boon docks. I wouldn't depend on them for self defense because of their bulkiness and usually being out of reach. The sight of an AR or double barreled shot gun might be a good deterrent in camp if ever confronted by a group of bad guys but that's not as likely in the boon docks. There is only two reasons to carry a firearm into the field. One is self defense (human or 4 legged Predator), the other is for hunting and target practice.

I think a .357 is one of the best all around firearms. Load it with .38 if you want, as even a standard .38 load (non parabellum) hits harder than a standard 9mm. Or load it with +p or .357 ammo. Versatile and reliable. Misfire? No need to tap, rack bang, even. Simply squeeze the trigger again and the cylinder gives you another chance. If you have time after shooting, you dont even have to litter the area with spent shells the way a semi ejector does.

Get some speed loaders and there ya go. And makes a better hammer than a composite pistol, too.

 

[RRitchey]

I am all for opsec and situational awareness and think it should be practiced in everyday life, but sometimes Sh*T happens and situations arise that need to be dealt with. I am just offering my whats and whys. Everybody is different and what works for some may not work for others.

I have never been the nightie clad co-ed that hears a noise in her basement and just grabs a flashlight and goes down to look... Hello, hello, OH No, a crazy guy in a mask with a chainsaw...eeek! , like in just about every horror/suspense movie made. Me I am the guy that arms up, sets the wife on perimeter watch and goes hunting. I hate reading about victims.

 

[JohnKeller]

Always carry. I never did until I started to see how quickly things can get out of hand. Leaving my rig for a day hike in a remote BLM camping site makes me nervous. People. Then again living here in Utah I carry just for a walk. Many times I have looked up and noticed that a wolf had been tracking me. We have Mountian lions and cougars here. I never want to be unarmed if confronted. I also pray that I will never be forced to use a firearm in defense.

 

[Angel Rivera]

I never go anywhere with out a firearm. I open carry in the woods, even though I have my CHL. Then concealed when not in the woods. I always have my AR in my truck as well when hunting and camping. That’s just me

In todays world, even in the city, I am more concerned with having access to a resource for protecting me and my family. Specially should it get crazy while I’m out. So I carry a 9 on my person, a large bore sidearm close, and my “truck gun” is a Shockwave.

 

[bumbleruck]

Buffalo Bore makes a 9MM round for bear defence.

First I've heard of it. They may make it, but I still wouldn't trust it haha.

Not being argumentative but anyone who thinks a 9mm will defend against a vicious bear is nieve. I have one but I don't trust it to do anything more than wound a mid sized predator unless you are lucky enough to hit something vital. I find anything short of a 10mm, 44-45 cal bullet or the ideally lethal 357 magnum to be the most effective. That's the 4 legged predator side of carrying.

If you carry a 44 Ruger or S&W magnum, which IMO is needed for bear, you cant very well conceal it. If someone is uncomfortable with me carrying open, then I'm in the wrong environment. If I considered what anyone thinks about what I do, I couldn't leave my house. I quit considering what others think 70 years ago when I became an adult. If you let others control your life in that way you could end up dead. I would rather be prepared for the worst and know that it's best.

As far as long guns in the field, they are fine for hunting and target practice. I take one or more of many varieties with me anytime I go to the boon docks. I wouldn't depend on them for self defense because of their bulkiness and usually being out of reach. The sight of an AR or double barreled shot gun might be a good deterrent in camp if ever confronted by a group of bad guys but that's not as likely in the boon docks. There is only two reasons to carry a firearm into the field. One is self defense (human or 4 legged Predator), the other is for hunting and target practice.

Completely agree on the 9mm. I was hiking with a buddy who almost drew reflexively on a large bear we encountered at a fairly short distance. We both had a pretty good laugh about what a catastrophic mistake that could have been.

As for other people's opinions, I couldn't care less as far as their thoughts influencing my actions, but the fact of the matter is that some people are terrified at the mere sight of a gun and I don't think it's polite to scare people if I don't have to as long as my weapon is still accessible. Can't control who I come across on a trail, and just like carrying normally I'm not a big fan of advertising that I'm armed. No judgement though, to each their own and I know you're always going to have better access to your weapon and I definitely can appreciate the value in that. I'll probably open carry if I'm in the backcountry and not near a popular trail, and if I ever carry my .357 I'll have to open carry for sure... nowhere to hide that huge honking thing lol

 

[Angel Rivera]

First I've heard of it. They may make it, but I still wouldn't trust it haha.


First I've heard of it. They may make it, but I


Completely agree on the 9mm. I was hiking with a buddy who almost drew reflexively on a large bear we encountered at a fairly short distance. We both had a pretty good laugh about what a catastrophic mistake that could have been.

As for other people's opinions, I couldn't care less as far as their thoughts influencing my actions, but the fact of the matter is that some people are terrified at the mere sight of a gun and I don't think it's polite to scare people if I don't have to as long as my weapon is still accessible. Can't control who I come across on a trail, and just like carrying normally I'm not a big fan of advertising that I'm armed. No judgement though, to each their own and I know you're always going to have better access to your weapon and I definitely can appreciate the value in that. I'll probably open carry if I'm in the backcountry and not near a popular trail, and if I ever carry my .357 I'll have to open carry for sure... nowhere to hide that huge honking thing lol

I would really really really research this a little more. 9mm and bear =

Weapons are to be carried in compliance with the law. That means that we must follow all guidance for CCW, one of them is not to publicize the fact that one is carrying a weapon or show it off.

on a trail, that would be very hard when I carry a 7” Toklat In a chest rig.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Weapons are to be carried in compliance with the law. That means that we must follow all guidance for CCW, one of them is not to publicize the fact that one is carrying a weapon or show it off.

When you live in a state that allows open carry, people are use to seeing guns and don't react the way people do that live in states without open carry. Personally I feel safer knowing someone has a gun on them. Concealed is kinda sneaky in an open carry state.
I have a CC license but I have never concealed. I got it because there are states that recognize my license and that is when I would need it. A weapon is not for show off anyway. It's tool like anything else. Why should anyone feel threatened by the sight of a weapon, all law enforcement carry them for self defense supposedly. If they are fearful that's their bag, not mine. I feel much more uncomfortable by the sight of big knives I see on people and wonder why they carry them at all in a town or city. But, that's their bag and I'm fine with anything people choose to carry for their comfort.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Sometimes I'm not so sure the Boston area is where I'm supposed to be. I dont have to carry open. I dont have to carry I large knife. Most often I dont. But, if I did happen to be carrying something open or large (hold the comments, peanut gallery), I dont like that there might have to be a police response just to check me out.

No offense to anyone else from any other country, but I'm just glad that even my area doesnt prevent me from carrying a lock blade. I know there are places in Europe where you cant carry a Buck knife at all without good reason. And if that reason is, say, construction, well you have to remove that knife if you walk off the construction site to go to lunch. Cant carry it unless the need is immediate.

So even though I find my own state to be somewhat restrictive, it's not terrible.

But I do often think about moving west

 

[madcratebuilder]

Buffalo Bore makes a 9MM round for bear defence.

That makes the bear angry, at least a angry bear kills you fast instead of playing with you.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Sometimes I'm not so sure the Boston area is where I'm supposed to be. I dont have to carry open. I dont have to carry I large knife. Most often I dont. But, if I did happen to be carrying something open or large (hold the comments, peanut gallery), I dont like that there might have to be a police response just to check me out.

No offense to anyone else from any other country, but I'm just glad that even my area doesnt prevent me from carrying a lock blade. I know there are places in Europe where you cant carry a Buck knife at all without good reason. And if that reason is, say, construction, well you have to remove that knife if you walk off the construction site to go to lunch. Cant carry it unless the need is immediate.

So even though I find my own state to be somewhat restrictive, it's not terrible.

But I do often think about moving west

I think walking tall and carrying a big stick is the way I'd go. A folding knife is one thing and a hunting knife are different animals. I was talking about hunting knives on your belt. In Texas and NM even a folding knife has blade length requirements and how they operate.

 

[Angel Rivera]

That makes the bear angry, at least a angry bear kills you fast instead of playing with you.

Research, research, research. The life you save may be your own.
Buffalo Bore has a page that tells what is rated for their +p rounds.
I worry about bears and moose mostly-is's common seeing therm on camera, or hearing neighbor reports. I do not believe you will find an experienced hunter or outdoors man who even think of going into bear country with anything less than 44 mag. I know some who have gone to 10mm w/ Underwood Extreme Perpetrators. I've been known to carry other heavy rounds including .454 Casull and .45 +p @ 320 grains. But these are always the backup. I normally carry a 12 gauge with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum which come highly recommended by friends who hunt bear. In Alaska, when you shoot an animal, that's a dinner bell to our bears.

 

[PNW EXPLR]

Guess they didn’t find the AR;)

Lets just say that mine, or my loved ones safety will never again depend on a bluff !

 

[taliv]

Not being argumentative but anyone who thinks a 9mm will defend against a vicious bear is nieve. I have one but I don't trust it to do anything more than wound a mid sized predator unless you are lucky enough to hit something vital. I find anything short of a 10mm, 44-45 cal bullet or the ideally lethal 357 magnum to be the most effective. That's the 4 legged predator side of carrying.

If you carry a 44 Ruger or S&W magnum, which IMO is needed for bear, you cant very well conceal it. If someone is uncomfortable with me carrying open, then I'm in the wrong environment. If I considered what anyone thinks about what I do, I couldn't leave my house. I quit considering what others think 70 years ago when I became an adult. If you let others control your life in that way you could end up dead. I would rather be prepared for the worst and know that it's best.

As far as long guns in the field, they are fine for hunting and target practice. I take one or more of many varieties with me anytime I go to the boon docks. I wouldn't depend on them for self defense because of their bulkiness and usually being out of reach. The sight of an AR or double barreled shot gun might be a good deterrent in camp if ever confronted by a group of bad guys but that's not as likely in the boon docks. There is only two reasons to carry a firearm into the field. One is self defense (human or 4 legged Predator), the other is for hunting and target practice.

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber

Using a pistol to defend against bear attacks seems to be a viable option.

www.ammoland.com

 

[Offroadnutz]

Great article! Thanks for sharing.

 

[League With A T]

This whole thread was a wild read. I've never felt threatened enough to even consider needing a weapon but I've never been out alone in super wild country either. For the Canadians I saw in the thread, how does carrying a bush gun work? Are there camping restrictions, travel restrictions (crossing provincial borders, national parks, etc)? Is this like throw the gun case in the back and drive straight out to crown land? How does it affect, if at all, passing through towns or cities, any restrictions on that? I only really have experience with restricted and the rules were very restrictive - double lock gun and travel on the straightest route from home to an RCMP approved range or gunsmith. I don't have any experience shooting long guns except at a range more recently and on the uncle's farm where the guns were kept as a kid. Not sure I'd feel comfortable just driving all over the province or into the next one with a gun in the truck. Sometimes wish the rules were more relaxed but at the same time as it is the likelihood of running into someone else with a gun who's either malicious or incompetent seems low in my experience and there's no law on how big your knife can be lol.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

This whole thread was a wild read. I've never felt threatened enough to even consider needing a weapon but I've never been out alone in super wild country either. For the Canadians I saw in the thread, how does carrying a bush gun work? Are there camping restrictions, travel restrictions (crossing provincial borders, national parks, etc)? Is this like throw the gun case in the back and drive straight out to crown land? How does it affect, if at all, passing through towns or cities, any restrictions on that? I only really have experience with restricted and the rules were very restrictive - double lock gun and travel on the straightest route from home to an RCMP approved range or gunsmith. I don't have any experience shooting long guns except at a range more recently and on the uncle's farm where the guns were kept as a kid. Not sure I'd feel comfortable just driving all over the province or into the next one with a gun in the truck. Sometimes wish the rules were more relaxed but at the same time as it is the likelihood of running into someone else with a gun who's either malicious or incompetent seems low in my experience and there's no law on how big your knife can be lol.

I'm not a Canadian but I can at least give you some details how it works in the US. The laws do in fact vary by state (province, to you). There are a number of states with stronger laws than others, to the point where a number of other states will provide reciprocity. If you have a license in "X" state, it is also good in "Y" state. Or if you have a license in X state, state Y will grant you one of theirs almost with out question. Sometimes more than one other state. Some states may not even require a license. Its been a while, but if I recall correctly, having a License to Carry Firearms in a handful of specific states, by extension, allows one to carry that firearm throughout about 80 to 90% of the US.

So it may seem wild but there is a method to the madness. Like it or not, the US as a nation grew up as a culture of independence and self sufficiency, to the point where arms have been specifically pointed out in the Constitution, so it's something a lot of people are just used to.

And as you say, I've never really been threatened on any of my hikes, but I've never been so far out in the wilderness as some of these folks.