Top Heavy Issues with RTT on 7+ Trails

[tsunamilogan05]

Alright, so I have a JKU with an Ikamper Skycamp 2.0 and other accessories mounted. I'm also puruing Badge of Honor badges just for the adventure. However, I'm having concerns of being too top-heavy. Just curious if any others have experience with 7+ difficulty trails and have been running a RTT specifically on a jeep. I only mention jeep, well because they rollover easier per the visor warning haha. I'm currently lifted 4" on 37's. The most difficult trail I've completed is Steel Bender in Moab, Utah and I believe it's rated a 7-8 maybe...

 

[tsunamilogan05]

Seriously no one???

 

[DintDobbs]

@tsunamilogan05 Give it a few days, the Jeep boys are probably all busy at the moment. They'll find your post and respond in good time. There are plenty of Jeep owners with RTT's on here, but probably a significantly smaller member base that has even done 7's at all, especially with a RTT.

This community is generally softcore, with an emphasis more on lengthy, luxurious trips than on tough, technical ones. For a more hardcore community, consider asking the same question on Pirate 4x4, and the dedicated Jeep forums - you're sure to get more answers if you ask around in more places.

Nice rig!

 

[slomatt]

Overland Journal recently had a good article on how adding roof loads can significantly raise a vehicle's center of gravity and make it more prone to roll over. I recommend checking it out since they do the math showing how a relatively small amount of weight can make a big difference.

In between the iKamper and the rack you pretty easily have 200lbs up high on your rig, which is the location with the most negative affect on roll center. In addition, a 4" lift also raises center of gravity and without increasing the track width increases the risk of rolling.

I think it comes down to how you want to optimize your truck. If you want to wheel difficult trails where you will be offcamber, then getting your center of gravity as low as possible is key. This involves keeping weight down low and running the least lift required to fit your target tire size. If you want to stay with the roof top tent then I recommend looking for ways to reduce weight up high, such as removing the rack. You could consider running wider axles, but that is expensive and doesn't help with front or rear rolls. Ultimately with an RTT you'll have a higher risk of rolling and will need to be more cautious on trails.

 

[OTH Overland]

We run a 3" lift and 35's on our JKU. currently have a 23Zero tent, 270 awning and a roof rack. Did add 12.50 wide tires and different offset wheels which added about 4" to our track width. The tent is offset a bit to the right to counter the awning. Weight distribution is 25% on each wheel, that was achieved by moving gear around and sliding the tent for and aft. Made a big difference to both on and off road manners. It is definitely not a sports car in any fashion, We use the Falcon 3.3 adjustable shocks and if running off camber or steep terrain we leave them on firm to reduce body roll, also limit the amount I air down the tires on those trails. I am not yet fully comfortable on the more extreme trails and building confidence slowly. Biggest thing is to try not to let it rock sideways with any violence as you can really feel the weight transfer from side to side as you climb over boulders. If I were to plan a trip with multiple hard trails I would likely pull the tent and awning, remove as much gear as possible from the interior and bring my ground tent, my Jeep and my body would thank me .. lol You can really feel all the extra weight pounding on the suspension, steering etc as you twist thru each boulder field.

 

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

Just my 2 cents... and I don't live near a any of the trails you are talking about....but are they loop trails or cover a lot of distance? maybe load a trailer and set up base camp before you hit the trail. I know some of them are long trails but the harder ones typically aren't ( correct me if I'm wrong ) so maybe just a central base camp setup and then go wheel some trails ad come back to camp.
Its how I've wheeled for years, and I have known guys to trailer gear from my neck of the woods to wheel all over Canada and the US.
These pictures are of my LJ fully loaded. top 2 I was on the move every day early and covering a lot of distance in between trails ( 1300 km in 3 days between trails that took all day to wheel to begin with) and the lower picture is loaded for a week in 1 spot to setup base camp and wheel out from there every day.

 

[tsunamilogan05]

Overland Journal recently had a good article on how adding roof loads can significantly raise a vehicle's center of gravity and make it more prone to roll over. I recommend checking it out since they do the math showing how a relatively small amount of weight can make a big difference.

In between the iKamper and the rack you pretty easily have 200lbs up high on your rig, which is the location with the most negative affect on roll center. In addition, a 4" lift also raises center of gravity and without increasing the track width increases the risk of rolling.

I think it comes down to how you want to optimize your truck. If you want to wheel difficult trails where you will be offcamber, then getting your center of gravity as low as possible is key. This involves keeping weight down low and running the least lift required to fit your target tire size. If you want to stay with the roof top tent then I recommend looking for ways to reduce weight up high, such as removing the rack. You could consider running wider axles, but that is expensive and doesn't help with front or rear rolls. Ultimately with an RTT you'll have a higher risk of rolling and will need to be more cautious on trails.

Thanks man! I’m considering a trailer so I can set up base camp and that may be my most flexible option. I do plan on going to wider axels just not anytime soon.

 

[tsunamilogan05]

Just my 2 cents... and I don't live near a any of the trails you are talking about....but are they loop trails or cover a lot of distance? maybe load a trailer and set up base camp before you hit the trail. I know some of them are long trails but the harder ones typically aren't ( correct me if I'm wrong ) so maybe just a central base camp setup and then go wheel some trails ad come back to camp.
Its how I've wheeled for years, and I have known guys to trailer gear from my neck of the woods to wheel all over Canada and the US.
These pictures are of my LJ fully loaded. top 2 I was on the move every day early and covering a lot of distance in between trails ( 1300 km in 3 days between trails that took all day to wheel to begin with) and the lower picture is loaded for a week in 1 spot to setup base camp and wheel out from there every day.

Yeah I think that may be my flexible option for what I am wanting to do. Thanks man!

 

[orange01z28]

I don't like how my JT feels with my spare tire mounted on my bed rack, I couldn't imagine an RTT

I was watching an old Trail Recon video where Brad (and Marco) still had RTTs mounted on their JKUs, and they just looked like they were struggling so much more on the off-camber stuff even though they had the flex for the obstacles

You will probably make it fine, but it will feel worse

 

[PonoAdventures]

You just have to take the RTT on trails gradually learning how your vehicle operates with that weight high. When I had an iKamper on my truck with OVS 270 awning, I learned that I could take my truck to 27 degrees off camber with no issue.

Ultimately it’s up to what you want to use your truck for. If it’s going to be a hardcore rock crawler, maybe it’s time to switch to a ground tent to bring that center of gravity back down. However, you’ll be surprised what your rig is capable of.

 

[Akicita]

What bump stops are you running with your suspension lift?

 

[smritte]

I've run all of the hard core trails out in my neck of the woods with various jeeps . My suspension was set up pretty light for articulation. I can think of a couple of spots having an RTT on top would have increased the pucker factor a bit. More than anything it would be hitting tree branch's with it or in some spots the vehicle leans its top towards a tree or a hill side. It would suck to crush the edge on something like that.
Your pictures show you going up and down hills, my opinion, that wouldn't be effected too much by the tent. Its the side hill stuff that will get ya.

 

[lhoffm4]

You mentioned widening your axles and that is a great option for lowering your center of gravity. Have you considered adding wheel spacers? They would have a similar effect but may be easier and cheaper than axles. Widening your wheel base or adding weight lower on your rig would lower your center of gravity and give more resistance to a roll over potential.

Adding a trailer that would carry the gear and roof tent is a great idea. T hat is what I chose as well. While I'm not as adventurous as many here, I liked the idea of a trailer for use as a base camp, allowing me to detach the truck for exploring, hunting, beer runs, etc..

Something to consider. My primary rig is a 3/4 ton 8-lug rim Chevy Silverado. When building my truck bed trailer, at the time I could not find a matching Silverado long bed so used a Ford 3/4 ton long bed to build the base trailer. I'm a gear-whore and want comfort so take way too much crap...

Anywho- Once finished, I thought I wanted/needed my trailer rims and tires to match my truck rims and tires... For aesthetics as much as practicality of having spares for either truck or trailer. So I put lug conversion spacers on my trailer that took a 5-lug Ford axle (not it's original axle) to an 8-lug Chevy lug pattern. I found an extra set of rims and matched the tires I run on the truck (10-ply) tires. Now I have 3x spares. With the same rims/tires for truck or trailer... Also a good idea for back country exploration... An added bonus was the spacers widened (slightly) my trailer wheel base. Helping when I put the roof rack and roof tent on the trailer.
No one can really tell the wheel base on the trailer is longer. If anything, I get second glances from guys who recognize my Ford trailer and Chevy truck run the same rims&tires ... Lol

 

[DintDobbs]

@lhoffm4 Not trying to go off topic here, but there are two things on which you are in error.

Center of gravity. Center of gravity is not lowered by widening the track. Center of gravity is lowered by moving the center of gravity closer to the ground. While a greater width in proportion to height brings a similar net effect to lowering the center of gravity, it only lowers the center of gravity if the additional leverage on independent suspension components caused by adding spacers (irrelevant on a twin solid axle vehicle such as the Jeep in question) moves the vehicle closer to the ground.

Wheelbase. When you said "wheelbase" in reference to putting bolt pattern changing spacers on your trailer, you are actually referring to track. The distance between the center line of each wheel on opposite sides of the same axle is the track. The distance between the center line of two wheels on opposite axles on the same side of the vehicle is the wheelbase.

In the case of different font and rear track widths, such as my vehicle, rather than measuring wheelbase directly from one wheel to the other, you would want to make a mark on the floor exactly perpendicular to one wheel on the same side of both axles, making the line next to the narrower axle longer by 1/2 the difference in track width. If you measure directly from one wheel to the other without compensating for differences in track width in some way, your measurement will be too long, due to the fact that the hypotenuse of a right triangle is longer than either of the other two sides.

Stay in school, kids! Geometry comes in handy later.

My rig's wheelbase is 102", its front track is 66" and its rear track is 63". I also have independent front suspension and dependent rear suspension.

 

[RJJK]

Unrelated: but your iKamper seems to be on a roof rack which is supported just by the gutters on the fiberglass roof.

Is this strong enough to hold the weight of the tent plus occupants withoutdamage to the roof?

 

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

Unrelated: but your iKamper seems to be on a roof rack which is supported just by the gutters on the fiberglass roof.

Is this strong enough to hold the weight of the tent plus occupants withoutdamage to the roof?

looks like a Rhino rack or AEV "backbone" setup that bolts through to a structure inside that attaches directly to the tub of the Jeep. The are very stout setups.

 

[FishFam_logs]

No RTT here but will add a side note.
The top to my jeep has tons scraps, marks and cracks. In the Western Sierras harder trails (DUSY, Rubicon, Fordyce, Johnson Valley) I would not expect a RTT to survive! Hell, I take the top off just to save it from trees and rocks on the harder trails. Not just the Sierras also, hardest hits I took to the roof was the Escalator (Moab) and Sliplock Gulch (Sand Hollow).
RTTs and rock crawling don't mix well.

 

[MOAK]

No RTT here but will add a side note.
The top to my jeep has tons scraps, marks and cracks. In the Western Sierras harder trails (DUSY, Rubicon, Fordyce, Johnson Valley) I would not expect a RTT to survive! Hell, I take the top off just to save it from trees and rocks on the harder trails. Not just the Sierras also, hardest hits I took to the roof was the Escalator (Moab) and Sliplock Gulch (Sand Hollow).
RTTs and rock crawling don't mix well.

Agreed, I don’t do any hardcore wheelin here in the east because of low hanging branches. I only have solar panel and storage boxes up on the rack, (the RTT is mounted on the trailer) but they would be destroyed in short order. To answer the OP’s query? Hard core rock krawling with an RTT just isn’t a good idea. There’s a guy living around here with a Range Rover all decked out with an RTT and a ton of other stuff bolted on up high. I was following him the other day and was shocked at how much the vehicle leaned going through a simple left hand turn on the paved intersection. If a tire were to blow, he’d be going over.

 

[Boort]

@tsunamilogan05

Not sure how close you are to your GVW as she currently sits or how the weight distribution between the tires is with your current setup. As @OTH Overland mentions having the weight balanced is very important when off camber.
Around here State patrol has wheel scales for big rigs If you make a call they are generally wiling to let you roll up and get the weight.
A few things that I can think of to lower the center of gravity whie on the trails:

1. If you carry a jerry can for fuel pour it into the tank before the trail or as soon as possible to lower the COG.
2. Check your equipment storage situation and make sure heavy gear is stored low and light equip is stored high.
3. Heavy duty skid plates. Heaver skids could offer more protection while lowering the center of gravity
4. Water secured in the backseat foot wells. something like a 3-5 gal water jug in the rear passenger foot wells would add up to 80lbs low on the rig.

I mention this be cause I remember helping my dad haul marble counter tops in his van and when that marble was on the center passenger area floor that van cornered like it was a sports car. :D The only time it ever handled nice was when loaded low.

Boort