Recovery rope vs recovery strap

[MMc]

A couple of things I didn't see mentioned. There are 2 types of straps and ropes. Dynamic Rope/line have 20% to 30% stretch used for pulling with a jerk. I'll stay out of the slackline, taught line argument. The other line is a Static line/Rope. they are used to tie off to a fixed object, rock, tree, another vehicle, these stretch less than 5%. You can use one to do the others job, but you are increasing the potential failure rate. Use a dynamic line to winch and you have to pull out the stretch. Use a static line to yank another vehicle and you might break something.

Second thing not mentioned, "when you are stuck, you dig. " If you take a little more time while buried in sand or mud to dig out a "ramp" to ease yourself the hole, use those traction pads you all ard so found of. Being lazy and hoping somebody can "just" jerk you or winch you out, just adds time or damage. Each time you are stuck is a bit different, spending a bit of time coming up with a plan to get yourself out usually saves time. Your Mileage May Very.

 

[tjZ06]

I am looking into straps and ropes for recovery purposes. Are there any pros and cons to using a rope over a strap or vice versa?

Get a good kinetic rope. Safer, and much easier on both the pull rig and the vehicle being recovered. I've pulled very large diesel pusher and toter-home (big-rig cab/chassis) RVs out of soft sand (like, camping IN the sand dunes) with my 33k Master Pull kinetic rope: Kinetic Recovery Rope | Tow Rope | Super Yanker The idea is that it stretches (up to 30% of its length) storing all of that energy in the rope, then slowly extracts the vehicle. It's really a trip to watch it work, it looks like the pull-rig is just driving away easily and then all the sudden the stuck vehicle just softly comes up and out.

I got my previous diesel pusher stuck at Sand Mountain, Nevada. It weighed around 42k lbs. I was being lazy and didn't want to climb up into the top of my stacker for the Master Pull rope, so we tried a strap I had in the bed of the truck. It broke, and if somebody had been around they could have gotten really hurt. No, it's not as bad as a chain or metal winch-line, and no I don't use any hard-rigging (all soft shackles, etc.) but it came back with such force and speed it embedded material in the clear-bra on the front of RV and the spot where it hit one of the wipers looked like it was sand-blasted clean down to metal. I'm sure it could have taken some skin off or worse. After that, I got the kinetic rope out and the RV came right out, no drama.

-TJ

 

[Brewbud]

Most of the straps you see out there are polyester and only stretch about 2%. There are some 100% nylon kinetic straps out there that will stretch 20 - 30%. They are more expensive. I carry both a kinetic strap and several polyester straps. My kinetic strap is marked with the amount of stretch it has with a big marker so it will not get mixed up. I have done long kinetic pulls with just one kinetic strap in the mix (ie: 1 kinetic, 2 static connected).

 

[Cav 3724]

Tjz06 is right on the money. I have been involved in spec ops vehicle recovery training for over 15 years. One thing that I have learned and witnessed is simple, garbage in, garbage out. That applies to training, equipment, anchor points, etc.

We train on everything from side by sides to mrap's. I have seen garbage equipment used with catastrophic results. I have seen improper or under rated anchor points used with catastrophic results. I have seen people who don't know what they are doing conduct recoveries with catastrophic results.

Kinetic ropes are just that, kinetic. They are designed to stretch on a pull then that stretch is transferred into a rubber band effect pulling the stuck vehicle out. We use several levels of kinetic pull, straight line pull, hook up the line and take up slack and pull. Level one, take arms stretch of line, approx. 6 ft, Put on ground and pulling vehicle gets a running start. Level 2, two arms lengths, level 3, 3 arms lengths. We NEVER exceed level 3. This is for military vehicles with non garbage anchor points. I have seen people hook up kinetic ropes to bumpers, suspension components, sway bars, etc. you usually wind up with vehicles in pieces. That is the garbage in, garbage out theory. If you don't know any better than to hook a kinetic rope to a bumper and get a running start, then you get garbage in, garbage out.

Anytime you engage a kinetic pull, you had better have a great, strong, proper anchor point on your vehicle.

We exclusively use Master Pull kinetics, rated for the vehicle in use. I have use them in recoveries thousands of times in training and actually recoveries and never had a failure when used properly. They are designed to be repeatedly used and I have repeatedly used the same ropes on multiple level 3 pulls, no failures. To watch a 45,000 pound mrap get several level 3 kinetic pulls on the same line repeatedly in a single recovery, it's impressive.

Lastly, components. D rings, clevises, etc. , use quality. Van Beast green pin clevises are the best. Never had a failure. If it says China anywhere on any of your equipment, don't use it, garbage in, garbage out.

Training. If you don't know what you are doing, get SMART on it. Know what you are doing, and think ahead three steps. I have seen people say they are "experts" on recovery, based on several successful recoveries without incidents. That is just luck. Luck is something you really don't want to rely on.

Tow straps, those flat things, are for towing. No stretch. They will cause damage if used
In a kinetic manner.

I am not implying that anyone here doesn't know what they are doing, but please whatevever you do, and however you do it, don't subscribe to garbage in, garbage out.

 

[RainierandTacos]

I know I've said this a lot in this thread, but I want to thank everyone for the knowledge they've been willing to share in this thread. I've learned quite a bit about the subject and it's been great hearing from people that have some experience with this type of thing. I'm glad I found this site and i appreciate everyone's time and patience in explaining things.

One question I do have, I see people saying "running start." Obviously I wouldn't take that to mean put the pedal on the floor, but what would be a safe bet for taking your moving start in terms of speed? I'm getting the impression that going too slowly may not get the stretch in the rope that you want, but please correct me if I'm wrong in that.

 

[Boostpowered]

I know I've said this a lot in this thread, but I want to thank everyone for the knowledge they've been willing to share in this thread. I've learned quite a bit about the subject and it's been great hearing from people that have some experience with this type of thing. I'm glad I found this site and i appreciate everyone's time and patience in explaining things.

One question I do have, I see people saying "running start." Obviously I wouldn't take that to mean put the pedal on the floor, but what would be a safe bet for taking your moving start in terms of speed? I'm getting the impression that going too slowly may not get the stretch in the rope that you want, but please correct me if I'm wrong in that.

Basically with kinetic you back up as far as possible without also being stuck which is usually about 1/3 to 1/2 the lenth of the strap. Buckle up hold on and give it the skinny pedal.

 

[tjZ06]

Basically with kinetic you back up as far as possible without also being stuck which is usually about 1/3 to 1/2 the lenth of the strap. Buckle up hold on and give it the skinny pedal.

Right, sort of. A running start should ONLY be done with a proper kinetic rope. The energy of the "running start" transfers into the ROPE and is then transferred over a period of time into the stuck vehicle. This makes it safe for both people and equipment. While it can work sometimes, a running start with a tow strap, chain, etc. transfers all of that energy of the moving tow-vehicle into the tow-points on the tow-rig and stuck-rig in a single INSTANT and will break/bend things (unless part of the rigging breaks, then it likes to transfer that energy into windshields and shins).

That said, if you wheel with experienced folks who know what "stuck" feels like and don't bury themselves down to the frame when they get stuck, the stuck-rig often only needs a little help. Unless the tow-rig is in a situation where it's on very soft ground (mud or snow) and stuck in a narrow trail where they'll only get 1 shot at it without being in their own holes for any subsequent tries I prefer to start "easy." Often the stuck rig just needs a little help. The kinetic rope will still stretch starting from taut IF it's actually required to stretch (i.e. if the stuck vehicle doesn't just come along, more like a tow rope scenario). I prefer to take it easy and just give that a try, or a very short run-up before things get more dramatic. That said, with a kinetic things never get all that dramatic even with a good running start, which is the whole point.

-TJ

 

[ryanorr280]

Years ago I used to run the Canadian River bottom, all on sand. we had to use @Boostpowered method. It works well when needed, and that’s what I consider a running start. But I also agree that it’s not my go to option out of the gate. But sometimes you don’t have a choice...

 

[HIALT2D]

Hey RainierandTacos,

Great question!!! And, great responses from some obviously very experienced folks. I'm learning a lot as well. These are the kinds of threads that keep me coming back to this forum.

 

[IAm_Not_Lost]

All I can say is that I just bought a kinetic rope after binge watching this guy haul every type of vehicle under the sun out with them; big, small, slow, fast, jerking, not jerking, sand, snow, mud, towing. It seems to hold up to it all and act as an extremely versatile device.

 

[TN_4Runner]

I am looking into straps and ropes for recovery purposes. Are there any pros and cons to using a rope over a strap or vice versa?

I would have to say both are good to have in your recovery inventory. Kinetic ropes like the Bubba Ropes are really awesome for getting people out and the tow straps are great if you need to tow someone. I carry both and have used my kinetic more on recovering others and they can double as tow straps but that's not really what they are used for. Long term pulling/towing is definitely for tow straps. Hope this helps.

 

[TN_4Runner]

Also don't skip out on some quality shackles. Chinese ones usually aren't the best but also, don't fall into the ''Overlanding" fad gear companies that have overpriced stuff. Some are good quality but it's overpriced. I bought some soft shackles but they were stolen at my doorstep when they were delivered so I just continued to use my steel shackles. Recovery points are important. Make sure they aren't the shipping tie down points and are actually rated for recovery.

 

[RainierandTacos]

Also don't skip out on some quality shackles. Chinese ones usually aren't the best but also, don't fall into the ''Overlanding" fad gear companies that have overpriced stuff. Some are good quality but it's overpriced. I bought some soft shackles but they were stolen at my doorstep when they were delivered so I just continued to use my steel shackles. Recovery points are important. Make sure they aren't the shipping tie down points and are actually rated for recovery.

Thank you for your advice. I've been eyeballing the Bubba Ropes on the shelf at Cabelas for a good while now. They've been on the shelf for so long they cut the price in half. Of course when I was in getting an oil change at my local Toyota dealer the parts department also has a Master Pull rope and soft shackle kit marked down 20%. Decisions decisions.

In regards to shackles, I'm still on the fence in regards to hard vs soft, but a couple of the crane riggers I've talked to have echoed what I've seen here regarding Van Beest shackles being the way to go.

Thanks again for the information everyone has given. I've learned a lot.

 

[Cav 3724]

Van Beest green pin shackles are the best, IMHO. Soft shackles have a place and purpose. Each recovery situation is different, no two are alike. I have used and tested many different brands of recovery ropes, lines, etc. I have never been let down or disappointed with master pull. They are more expensive but well worth it. After using bubba ropes in kinetic situations, we are only using them as tow lines right now.

 

[MMc]

I have both hard shackles (Van Beest) and soft shackles, they have both place. I also keep static and kinetic lines, the rope is kinetic and the straps are static. I get my stuff from Lift-it manufacturing in Pomona, CA.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Gear America has reasonable prices, made in USA. I have their Rope, straps and mega shackles plus soft shackles. Kinetic rope is great for fairly simple recoveries but I use a winch for anything serious.

 

[64Trvlr]

Both

 

[Brewbud]

Soft shackles are great to have in addition to your hard shackles. I find I use my soft shackles mostly to connect two or more straps together in a pull. If you just loop a strap to a strap they can jam and become extremely difficult to separate. We used to use a magazine or something similar in the loop to help make it easier but soft shackles make it a breeze.

 

[rsweet]

I am looking into straps and ropes for recovery purposes. Are there any pros and cons to using a rope over a strap or vice versa?

Should have a tow strap and a kinetic rope (bubba rope or similar). If you only can afford one, get a kinetic rope for recovery.

 

[Joseph Gaitan]

That's an excellent question. To be honest I keep both in my rig. In fact I manufacture the Kinetic ropes and soft shackles.

So a Kinetic rope is great when you are really stuck in deep sand or deep mud. This is where a kinetic rope works great because a well made KRR will stretch up to about 30% creating the force to pull you out. KRR tend to provide less stress to the vehicle components as well.

A recovery strap would be ideal to tow after being recovered from being stuck, if needed.

Having both is ideal as both KRR and Recovery straps work together but have different purposes. You can also tow with your KRR if needed. Although I like to keep the KRR specifically for recovery from mud/sand/snow where the force is needed.