New ford bronco capabilities. Is jeep in big trouble?

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LostWoods

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You guys arguing window stickers are completely ignoring the fact that NOBODY short of an idiot is paying anywhere close to sticker for a Jeep. Any Jeep with any accessory package.
The forums consistently have offers for 7-8% under invoice on anything Jeep. I paid over 18% off the sticker for my truck.

However, Ford isn't known for selling at sticker either... I mean the Wrangler didn't get these kinds of deals in 2018 when it launched and it had nowhere near the novelty. The Bronco will probably have a longer honeymoon period with all the hype but give it a few years and you'll see typical Ford discounts when they're going up against the new 4Runner and probably a new Wrangler.
 

B-R

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It’s the perfect storm for Jeep Cherokee Nation asked them to stop using their name sooo
Leave wranglers as solid axles and make the new XJ off road capable
 

LostWoods

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It’s the perfect storm for Jeep Cherokee Nation asked them to stop using their name sooo
Leave wranglers as solid axles and make the new XJ off road capable
Yeah I just don't see Jeep making that move when the Cherokee is really just a RAV4/Forester/Escape competitor. FCA can only buy so many credits and their CAFE rating is atrocious.

I think if the Bronco is successful and as capable as it looks, we'll be lucky to retain the SFA across the whole line for the next gen Wrangler. It's an archaic technology and while it's superior for crawly stuff, the Bronco is going to make most realize just how bad Jeep handling is when all they want is a rugged looking mall crawler on a light lift and 37s.
 
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Anak

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I think Jeep hit a sweet spot with the XJ in the form of a solid axle unibody SUV. The subsequent ZJ and WJ are comparable in capability, but hindered by their extra features (more weight and more failure modes).

When Jeep took its Cherokee (Grand Cherokee I guess) lineup into the realm of IFS it gave up off road capability for the sake of comfort for the soccer moms. Every subsequent iteration of the Cherokee has taken it farther and farther from its off-road roots and closer to a minivan. It is getting to where Jeeps are more like Subarus than off-road vehicles.

I would love to see Jeep come out with a solid axle Cherokee again. I see no point to an IFS Cherokee. That is what they produce today, and it is downright boring.
 

The Roach ...

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when Ford decides to put anything other than the 2.3 ecoboost into it... I'll look again. I spoke with an engineer (for ford) about the 2.7.. he grimaced. I'd love to see the 3.0 diesel from Ford as an option. so I sold my 1st year Bronco slot.. wait to see what Ford does in round 2.
 

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But that doesn't change its place in Jeep's lineup or its intended market. Yeah you can get a faux 4Lo but it's still just a slightly more capable grocery getter to 99% of the market.
The Trailhawk KL models have a real low range, not the "low" of the Trailhawk Renegades and such, and a rear locker, they're quite a bit more capable than people give them credit for.
 

LostWoods

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Quite a bit more capable.
You really seem to struggle understanding context so I'm not wasting my time with this again.


The Trailhawk KL models have a real low range, not the "low" of the Trailhawk Renegades and such, and a rear locker, they're quite a bit more capable than people give them credit for.
I mean they are more capable but not so much to their intended market. The 4Lo mode and locker are more likely to be used to get through slop (which IMO is a great reason to buy one) than really off-road and that was my point... the Cherokee isn't sold as an off road machine because the baddest KL around is going to get taken for a walk by the stockest of stock proper 4x4. I think the only reason the Trailhawk exists is because Jeep has a brand to upkeep - if that trim level didn't exist, I'm sure nobody would notice.
 

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You really seem to struggle understanding context so I'm not wasting my time with this again.




I mean they are more capable but not so much to their intended market. The 4Lo mode and locker are more likely to be used to get through slop (which IMO is a great reason to buy one) than really off-road and that was my point... the Cherokee isn't sold as an off road machine because the baddest KL around is going to get taken for a walk by the stockest of stock proper 4x4. I think the only reason the Trailhawk exists is because Jeep has a brand to upkeep - if that trim level didn't exist, I'm sure nobody would notice.
Please don't. I understand context perfectly. You seem to miss the point that, that even though you seem to think the cherokee TH is "just another crv". I am point out it's not. even though MOST people will buy the TH as another SUV. Trust me, your gladiator is JUST another mall crawler as well. so there is that.
 

Murphy Slaw

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Please don't. I understand context perfectly. You seem to miss the point that, that even though you seem to think the cherokee TH is "just another crv". I am point out it's not. even though MOST people will buy the TH as another SUV.
99 % of owners simply want the ability to get home/to work/to Grandma's/to school or to the hospital in case of a blizzard, flood, hurricane or tornado.

They work pretty damned good for most people.
 

Old Tanker

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If we're talking about primary uses rather than capabilities or images, then we should accept that the majority of all 4X4s - including Rubicons, Defenders, and TRD OffRoads - stay on paved and gravel roads. Most people buy the image, or just-in-case capabilities, and then put lower profile tires and angry faces onto their Wranglers.
 

leeloo

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If we're talking about primary uses rather than capabilities or images, then we should accept that the majority of all 4X4s - including Rubicons, Defenders, and TRD OffRoads - stay on paved and gravel roads. Most people buy the image, or just-in-case capabilities, and then put lower profile tires and angry faces onto their Wranglers.
On the forum looks like there are a lot of people who actually take what ever they have off road. As a % of drivers, we are probably under 5% even if you count the people who by profession go there, like guys working for the forest service, or maybe some geological survey guys, NGO's working out in remote areas etc...
 

Boostpowered

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On the forum looks like there are a lot of people who actually take what ever they have off road. As a % of drivers, we are probably under 5% even if you count the people who by profession go there, like guys working for the forest service, or maybe some geological survey guys, NGO's working out in remote areas etc...
Really that's the percentage you think offroad worldwide ?
Aside from overlanding there is real offroading, rock crawling, rock bouncing, rock racing,, desert racing, hill climbing, rally racing, winch racing, mud bogging, arena racing, and many more I can't think of at the moment.
Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that others don't. Taking a self survey from the internet is no way to gauge how many people use 4x4s for their intended purposes, unless your at every one these events and can do a head count on 4x4s being used vs how many 4x4s are in the world your numbers will forever be wrong. And I'm not talking about the folks that take an awd down some forrest rd aka a dirt or rock road take pictures then claim they can offroad like the big boys.

Go call a driveshaft shop and ask why and how they stay in business, answer is 4x4s offroading, drag racers, and jackasses doing burnouts on the street. And a side of engine, trans or axle swaps.

Heck southern California alone probably has 5% of the people that take their vehicle offroad just bombing through the dessert pretending they are doing Baja.

I'd bet half of the true 4x4 vehicles in America aren't even road legal they have to be trailered to the offroading area. I know mine is illegal to drive around town in, it don't have stop or turn signals no fenders no vin no horn, the tires aren't balanced since they are 41" super swampers on 20" beadlocks.

Maybe 5% of people in a metropolitan area actually offroad their 4x4 the rest mall crawl, but in the rural areas we like to get muddy. In the country if you see 4x4 trucks in a parking lot they aren't mall crawling they are meeting up to go offroad somewhere.