Negotiating Mud

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derMechaniker

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As a Californian after several years of drought, I've had little experience with my rig in mud. However, that has changed due to this year's rain.

I live in Atascadero, which, when translated from Spanish to English, roughly means "bog" or a place to get stuck in. "Atascar" being the verb to be stuck or hindered.

Yes, it has rained in prior years since I've lived here and I have experienced thick "Frankenstein feet" from moving through my property in rubber boots. However, after this year's rains I discovered the true meaning of my city's namesake.

I've got a ride-on mower for keeping the weeds in check on my acre of natural land. I hadn't quite realized just how wet one section of my property was. It had been a couple of weeks since we'd had some rain. The mower got stuck fast in the lowest part of my property, where standing water had been.

Mrs. Love suggested I pull the mower out with the van. Naturally, I have watched many a YouTube video of Syncro Vanagons motoing in the mud and, of course, this gave me some confidence that simply pulling a mower out would be no problem. After all, I've got 29" tires, 6.17 gears, front and rear lockers. What could go wrong?

I opened the side gate and drove the van directly towards the mower. As I crossed into the mud and stopped short of the mower I realized that I, perhaps, made an error of judgement. When I climbed out, the van was sitting deep in mud, was now at a standstill and all four tires were at around 44 psi for highway use.

I hitched the mower to my front shackle and climbed back into the van. I selected reverse and let in the clutch. My wheels spun and I didn't move. I pulled my rear and front locker knobs and tried again. All four wheel spun and I could feel myself sinking.



I aired down as low as I dared. I grabbed three 3' planks of 2x6, a shovel and a sledge hammer. I shoveled away mud and set the planks under the tires with a sledge hammer. I climbed back in the van and tried again. All four wheels spun and I was now deeper. I begin kicking myself for not installing the wiring for my brand new winch sitting on it's hitch mount lying on the garage floor.

At this stage, my neighbor figured out what was going on and brought over his tractor to pull me out; not without some serious effort I might add.

Fast forward to this past week. We've driven up to the Plumas National Forest and are checking out some of the Forestry routes near La Porte, CA.

We encounter a large vehicle-length mud puddle with water and stop to discuss. We are gun shy of mud after my aforementioned wing clipping. We are alone. I still haven't installed my fore and aft wiring for my winch, which is still sitting on the garage floor at home.

I engaged the front and rear lockers. We decide that it would probably be smart to negotiate the puddle from the left with two wheels on firmer soil. I select Low and begin our crossing. The firmer soil turns out to be soft mud and the wheels sink down into it very similarly to what happened in our backyard. I keep my foot in it, there is some slipping, some high revs and we sweat it through to the other side leaving a significant rut where our left wheels carved through the mud.

As we continued down the road we came to a section that was similar to what we just crossed, but for an extended length. Given the road being a dead-end, we pulled the plug and turned around. We made it back across the original puddle — this time with the right wheels in our rut, but not without revs and slippage.

As we continued down alternate forks of this road, we encountered more mud puddles, however not as intimidating as the previous one. I took a more courageous approach to them and simply drove through them rather than attempting to have two wheels on "dry" ground. Mrs. Love's hand was tighter around the grab handle for it, however we seemed to just blaze through them like it wasn't really any big deal.

What I want to know is what is the best way to approach these things? My theory is to take the puddles straight through. I figure they were made by vehicular traffic and the earth within them will be more compressed than that of "virgin" soil, which is more apt to be soft and cause sinking to occur. Obviously, momentum is important, too. We laughingly came up with a #nowisnotthetimeforsocialmedia hash tag after having stopped in deep snow earlier in the day for an Instagram moment, which nearly stuck us. I know I probably made things harder by not airing down. The reason for this was the roads were frequently impassable and we were often right back on the pavement seeking out another Forestry route.

For those who have bared my story telling to get this far (clearly, I enjoy reading/writing), what is the consensus for traveling on mixed condition roads like this? What are some secrets to successful mud negotiation?


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MS_Disco

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You've encountered what we in the South call "gumbo". The only way to tackle gumbo like mud is, one word, tires. In some situations even that isn't enough. If there isn't enough water or horsepower to keep the tires cleaned out, you end up with donuts... At that point your only friend is your winch, or a buddy with one.

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druff6991

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Wide, meaty, aggressive tires. Look up TSL boggers, super swampers, or thornbirds for examples.

You also need the horsepower to spin the tires fast enough to clear the mud out of treads.

Other than that, put it 4Lo and keep her pinned, and be ready to get muddy when you get stuck (not if [emoji16]) and have to get out and winch yourself out.



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derMechaniker

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I understand all the cause for tires and power in the thick mega-mud such as my photo depicts, but how about the case such as the forest roads?

The dirt was basically dry save for patches of large wet puddles. 90% or more of the road was dry. If you're running standard TA tires or their ilk, what is the procedure for negotiating small sections of mud in that case? Is it wiser to traverse the puddles or to try and keep two wheels out of the puddle and up on the soft "banking?" My experience was that my wheels sank deeply into that banking and I was pretty concerned they would get stuck there.


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MS_Disco

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I understand all the cause for tires and power in the thick mega-mud such as my photo depicts, but how about the case such as the forest roads?

The dirt was basically dry save for patches of large wet puddles. 90% or more of the road was dry. If you're running standard TA tires or their ilk, what is the procedure for negotiating small sections of mud in that case? Is it wiser to traverse the puddles or to try and keep two wheels out of the puddle and up on the soft "banking?" My experience was that my wheels sank deeply into that banking and I was pretty concerned they would get stuck there.


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All depends on the trail, yesterday I ran both senerios, I got out quite a few times to survey the area, hard packed around the hole, I hang one side in, soft around it, and I can't find another way around, whole thing goes in. You never know how deep or rutted up the mud hole is, once you're in, your commited. I'm always looking for trees or winch points just in case, but sometimes horsepower is all you have.

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druff6991

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I understand all the cause for tires and power in the thick mega-mud such as my photo depicts, but how about the case such as the forest roads?

The dirt was basically dry save for patches of large wet puddles. 90% or more of the road was dry. If you're running standard TA tires or their ilk, what is the procedure for negotiating small sections of mud in that case? Is it wiser to traverse the puddles or to try and keep two wheels out of the puddle and up on the soft "banking?" My experience was that my wheels sank deeply into that banking and I was pretty concerned they would get stuck there.


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I point my truck at stuff that I know my tires and dig into and eat. If it looks like it's just gonna sink the truck to the frame rails I'll choose another spot.

Its just trial and error. But the worst you can do is keep highway tires on. They'll clog up with tiny treads and you'll spin away with donuts

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4xFar Adventures

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A stick can help determine not just the depth of the mud, but how hard the bottom is (if thee is one). In your case @derMechaniker I think you had the right idea keeping one side on dry, firm terrain. But, that means that you will be off camber, and more weight will shift to the muddy side. This may lead you to sink in more, but with lockers and traction on the dry side, you might be able to carry through. As mentioned, it's a case by case basis. Each puddle is unique in its own way. Getting through some of them can give you the confidence of what you can and may not be able to tackle. Remember, "When in doubt, scout it out."

As soon as you stop forward movement, stop any wheel spin. As you've seen, it will just dig you deeper. The first thing to try is reversing out. The compacted ground you made going in may get you enough traction to back out. If it's "gumbo" you may not have any chance. Turning around isn't a failure. It's a learning experience. As with anything when you're out on the trail, it's up to you to decide if it's worth taking the risk.

Winching is an option (once you have it wired) but another option that works really well in these situations, is an exhaust jack. It has a nice wide footprint so prevent sinking, is pretty safe and controlled when lifting/lowering, and easy on the vehicle (compared to a winch).
 
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Longshot270

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Black gumbo is some interesting stuff. Here's what I've learned with ours. First, get some real mud boots and walk it so you don't find debris or a hole with the 4000+ pound vehicle. Digging a vehicle out is bad, but not as bad as digging out a 3 wheeled 4x4.

There's two kinds of super wet with standing water. If it is unsaturated (standing water but firm), go slow and watch the soil slopes because you'll slide around and risk getting stuck in a depression or hit an obstacle. This is where I've gotten stuck the worst when I had an f150.
Then there's standing water that is saturated and the trick is usually speed and hope your tires are wide enough to plane over the wet long enough to find something firm. Keep the tires turning fast enough to clean out and you'll likely get across with minimal rutting.

As it slowly drains it gets sticky. I don't like this one because this is where low HP cars like my patriot and mini trucks have trouble. The mud cakes on thick and heavy and you've got to have the power or speed to keep the sticky stuff off or it'll cake up to the fender...then you might as well walk home until it dries enough to chip off.

If the mud is deep enough and it keeps drying, it'll create a another type. Nasty, sticky goo with a hard shell. This is where heavy equipment with small diameter tires gets stuck because you are driving along and then suddenly you drop and are stuck because the hole has vertical sides of hard crust but the bottom is goo. If you don't have the HP to roast the tires and the traction to climb you'll likely just dig down through the goo rather than up through the dry crust.
 

gandrimp

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Pay close attention to all the wording used here. Words like "likely" "usually" "may" and "might". Unless you walk it or poke with a stick mudholes are just a guess. If you go alone, get that winch hooked up. I was out just yesterday and at every hole I would try to pick where/if I could winch through.

Love the 4x4 van.
 

druff6991

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Pay close attention to all the wording used here. Words like "likely" "usually" "may" and "might". Unless you walk it or poke with a stick mudholes are just a guess. If you go alone, get that winch hooked up. I was out just yesterday and at every hole I would try to pick where/if I could winch through.

Love the 4x4 van.
Not knowing is half the fun [emoji16] sometimes you just got to go with it and floor it

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ProjectHellRaiser

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Down south we are used to the mud and I've spent many many days driving through it and around it and it is very true it is an individual hole by hole kinda affair some you can crawl through in 2wd some you put it in 4low peg it and pray (usually breaking parts) all you can do is scout it out and figure out if you can handle it or not


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15Canyon

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Other than that, put it 4Lo and keep her pinned, and be ready to get muddy when you get stuck (not if [emoji16]) and have to get out and winch yourself out.
I definitely agree with that. As far as humanly possible, do not lose momentum. It's a heck of a lot harder to get going again if you get bogged down in the muck. As others have also said, try walking it out to get a feel for the terrain.

Not to derail the thread, but how do you guys deal with steering in the mud? i.e if you need to negotiate around an obstacle.
 

ProjectHellRaiser

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I definitely agree with that. As far as humanly possible, do not lose momentum. It's a heck of a lot harder to get going again if you get bogged down in the muck. As others have also said, try walking it out to get a feel for the terrain.

Not to derail the thread, but how do you guys deal with steering in the mud? i.e if you need to negotiate around an obstacle.
Steering in the mud is easiest if your not in a rut but if you are down in one the only thing you can do is hope you have deep rough tread to crawl out of said rut I've run every brand of mud tires on the market and the meatier your sidelugs the better it makes it a lot easier to drive in ruts period


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Winterpeg

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One thing to also watch for is water in your intake. The first big splash going into the puddle may kill your engine. Know where your intake is and how to protect it or at least minimize the water going into it.
 

derMechaniker

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Thank you all for the input. Scouting sounds like a righteous plan.

Having a set of mud boots is a great idea… storing them in a loaded camper might be tricky when we're on excursions. The Trasharoo def gets used for actual trash!

The van has a factory intake snorkel located high up at the vent behind the right rear side window. The front diff, transaxle and clutch all have remote venting tubes routed up to a high point, as well. I forded a very flooded creek during the height of the rainstorms and had water up to the bottom of my doors. It was awesome having the initial entry splash go right up the windscreen. Got to love the flat nose of a forward control VW van.

I'm fairly certain my issue in the backyard was one of stopping. This was made out of total ignorance and had I just stopped on dry ground and run a long rope to the mower I'd have been fine.

If I get serious about trying to do mud crawling, I'm going to have to invest in a set of proper tires and maybe even a spare set of wheels. The problem is this vehicle is a camper and, as such, gets driven long distances on pavement then gets used off-road at destination points. The tire thing is a tricky compromise.


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There's some great advice here! I am struggling a bit to understand the 4 low suggestions though. This seems counter intuitive to me based on my experience in mud, which is pretty limited if I'm totally honest.

4 Low gives lots of engine power to the wheels for torque, but in my application it basically makes 6th gear the same as 1st gear. In mud, it seems best for the wheels to be spinning and clearing and for a rig to maintain momentum, which doesn't take torque so much as it takes, as one of our favourite British TV personalities would say, speed and power. For that, are you better off in 4-High? I guess it depends on the gearing to some extent but I'd be interested in hearing thoughts from this group. Could it be that this is this the one time where Jeremy Clarkson-ing an obstacle is actually a good idea? ;)

I have limited experience in mud myself, just one big adventure last May Long where despite BFG MT tires, a winch was still required.
 

druff6991

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There's some great advice here! I am struggling a bit to understand the 4 low suggestions though. This seems counter intuitive to me based on my experience in mud, which is pretty limited if I'm totally honest.

4 Low gives lots of engine power to the wheels for torque, but in my application it basically makes 6th gear the same as 1st gear. In mud, it seems best for the wheels to be spinning and clearing and for a rig to maintain momentum, which doesn't take torque so much as it takes, as one of our favourite British TV personalities would say, speed and power. For that, are you better off in 4-High? I guess it depends on the gearing to some extent but I'd be interested in hearing thoughts from this group. Could it be that this is this the one time where Jeremy Clarkson-ing an obstacle is actually a good idea? ;)

I have limited experience in mud myself, just one big adventure last May Long where despite BFG MT tires, a winch was still required.
Brownie points for Clarkson.

But the 4Lo is for lower hp vehicles, or with wide gears. It does take a significant amount of torque to keep them spinning, especially in thick stuff and the higher you go into the gear range.

Well use my truck for example, my first gear is a 3.06 first, 1.62 second 1:1 third and .7 fourth, with a low range of 2.73. The drop from first to second is a noticeable one. And it could be where the engine is bouncing off the limiter in first, but bogs down in second.

Now if I put it in 4lo, my tranny can go into 3rd (the 1:1) but it'll still be reduced 2.73 times. Which would be a happy medium between first and second in 4hi, to where it's not bouncing off the limiter, but it's not bogging down

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Pathfinder I

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Great explanation! Thanks for that!

I have been stuck in mud the one time and 4-low seemed to make it worse as the wheels weren't clearing, but in 4 hi I could get into 2nd gear and with moderate RPM keep the wheels moving and clearing. It also put me right in the power band so if I was sliding, I could ease off the power without stalling out or stopping the wheels from spinning entirely to stop the slide, or i could give it more juice if I started bogging to clear the tires and get my speed back up. 4-Low put me in one gear that didn't have that same range.

I guess at the end of the day it depends on the mud and the rig, but your explanation was helpful in me strategically understanding low vs high in mud.
 

druff6991

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Great explanation! Thanks for that!

I have been stuck in mud the one time and 4-low seemed to make it worse as the wheels weren't clearing, but in 4 hi I could get into 2nd gear and with moderate RPM keep the wheels moving and clearing. It also put me right in the power band so if I was sliding, I could ease off the power without stalling out or stopping the wheels from spinning entirely to stop the slide, or i could give it more juice if I started bogging to clear the tires and get my speed back up. 4-Low put me in one gear that didn't have that same range.

I guess at the end of the day it depends on the mud and the rig, but your explanation was helpful in me strategically understanding low vs high in mud.
Yeah once you're stuck, you're stuck lol. Best option to be is grab a strap and a friend or some of those traction boards everybody seems to have nowadays.

Most of this really does come down to your vehicle and you. Also keep in mind, using the low range, takes a load and pressure off your transmission.

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