Interesting Fuel Price Article

  • HTML tutorial

MazeVX

Rank VI
Launch Member

Influencer II

3,278
Gießen Germany
First Name
Mathias
Last Name
Kreicker
Member #

8002

So I see there's a lot going on, I will try to gather some information about the fuel situation in Europe with the new synthetic fuels, Bio fuels and common fuels as there are lots of new regulations and they are absolutely not the same in every EU country as I just found out.
It will most likely take some time as I will try to find reliable sources to shed some light across gtl/btl/hvo/fame and what not...
 

El-Dracho

Ambassador, Europe
Moderator
Member
Supporter
Investor

Inventor I

13,232
Lampertheim, Germany
First Name
Bjoern
Last Name
Eldracher
Member #

20111

Ham/GMRS Callsign
DO3BE
So I see there's a lot going on, I will try to gather some information about the fuel situation in Europe with the new synthetic fuels, Bio fuels and common fuels as there are lots of new regulations and they are absolutely not the same in every EU country as I just found out.
It will most likely take some time as I will try to find reliable sources to shed some light across gtl/btl/hvo/fame and what not...
Supercool! Looking forward to it. Thanks for your effort!
 
  • Like
Reactions: NotGumby and MazeVX

NotGumby

Local Expert Germany
Member
Investor

Influencer II

3,682
Frankfurt, Germany
First Name
Rick
Last Name
Voth
Member #

2380

Service Branch
Army Veteran 11B 54E
I’ll definitely have to look into that. So it’s not ‘Bio Diesel”? According to the book, she’s not to have diesel with more that 5% bio Anteil.
For awhile a few years ago, Sinclair stations were offering 5% bio diesel as their regular fair. I guess it was not a hit. I used it to help keep my fuel system cleaner, and periodically used a biocide? additive also when I filled the tank. Because I had the LB7 engine with early injector design, I also used small amounts of 2 stroke oil, and Power service lube for lubricity and longevity. 5% was also the recommended max OEM for bio fuel in a Duramax engine, but Ford at 1 point had theirs designed I believe for up to 20%.
Was the bio diesel cheaper than the regular? I’ve read some posts about the 2-stroke oil as an additive. Some swear by it. I’ve not used it because I’m regularly using the premium diesel without the bio %. Do you still have that vehicle, and if yes what mileage?
 

Desert Runner

Rank VII
Launch Member

Expedition Master III

8,507
Southern Nevada
First Name
Jerold
Last Name
F.
Member #

14991

Ham/GMRS Callsign
/GMRS=WREA307
C
Was the bio diesel cheaper than the regular? I’ve read some posts about the 2-stroke oil as an additive. Some swear by it. I’ve not used it because I’m regularly using the premium diesel without the bio %. Do you still have that vehicle, and if yes what mileage?
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here at the time it was comparable in price, as station location dictated the price scale against competing brands. Were talking just a few pennies difference in price in the city neighborhoods. The big brands like Shell or Chevron, or 76, have always been about 7 cents to 10 cents more expensive per gallon. Arco (west coast refinery /Alaska oil) all comes thru a Ca pipeline, so no Arabian-Middle East or Venezuelan (South American) product.er,

Further, that Alaskan oil is processed and shipped via pipeline. What that means is their is no difference in the gas until it reaches the tank farm terminal here in Southern NV. The gas only becomes Texaco, Mobil, Chevron, Shell, BP, etc when being loaded into the fuel tankers and each oil companies PROPITIATORY Additive is added before delivery.

I believe a few years ago there was a thread about it on OB. In answer to the above quote/question, i am keeping my 2003 truck 97800 miles, as the world wide car market is plum crazy and upside down. The chip shortage has dealers asking outrageous markups over MSRP on new vehicles, and used vehicles are appreciating wildly above blue book values. My truck does not have all the electronics or cameras, nor the emission gear, the new trucks are saddled with. No ERG, no DEF, No camera systems, no multi function off-road knobs, just plan Hi/Low range, and a ltd slip/locker G-80 rear-end. Being a 3/4 tom it is not a dedicated wilderness truck, but is my DD for all these years. Also being option loaded, that $48,000 would be over $80,00 now with an expected dealer markup of $6000-$11,000 most likely as I have seen a few trucks pushing $98,000 dollars. That is just plain nuts.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: NotGumby

MazeVX

Rank VI
Launch Member

Influencer II

3,278
Gießen Germany
First Name
Mathias
Last Name
Kreicker
Member #

8002

Hello, as promised, i tried to write down a bit of information about diesel and its biological and synthetic variations.
Each explanatory section will be followed by one or more external links that I used as source of information or for further resources about this topic.
Currently not included is the knowledge section about E-fuels (made from electric power , hydrogen and atmospheric Co²) because I just dont know enough and the current situation isn`t very easy to overlook.
This article describes the situation in mid november 2021 and contains only public available information gathered by me to allow everybody an overlook and simpliefied acces to information.


This will be part 1, the knowledge part, what is what, what does the different terms mean and what its made of.
I will focus on the european situation in further parts and will add more information about the chemical processes and such later but I wanted to get this started on a rather basic level.
I tried to be very accurate with the facts and include several external links for further information.
Please excuse any possible mistakes, I will review this again and try to update soon.

Part 2 will focus on distribution and availabilty in Europe, I will try to stay away from political things but honestly it is very political and I wont be able to avoid it completely...

Part 3 will hopefully shed some light on things I missed or topics about diesel that you are interested in, Im open for suggestions here. I will also talk about my personal experiences with diesel from different sources, distributors and qualities, about my experience with R33 which Im currently testing and hopefully with true XTL fuel


Part 1:

Diesel conventional fossil

Diesel fuel is a liquid fuel designed for usage in compression ignition engines, made mostly from petroleum fuel oil which is a crude oil distillate.

It is specified by several standards around the globe like EN590 (Europe), ASTM D 975 (USA), GOST G 52368 (Russia), main specs are the cetane number which describes how readily the fuel ignites when sprayed and the fuel density and density variation under different temperatures.
Common European Diesel has a cetan number of min 51CZ, Aral Ultimate, for example, has 60CZ, US Diesel, as specified, has a cetan number not lower than 40CZ.
The amount of Sulphur is usually below 10ppm (parts per million) in Europe, USA and Canada but can vary widely across the globe.
For Europe the amount of Sulphur most not exceed 10ppm, this is important because Sulphur causes problems with several emission control systems and injectors, using high sulphur diesel in vehicles with DPF or EGR systems can damage these systems beyond repair.

So called "Premium Diesel" fuels usually have higher cetan number and several additional additives that increase stability of density and storage stability as well as cleaning abilities and increased corrosion inhibition. This is meant to keep the injectors free of build up which is essential for optimum function, whilst this is often discussed its meanwhile clear that some of them actually work and do what they advertise.
A rule of thumb here is that the more modern the engine controls are the more effective it will be, older systems can`t use some of the benefits but the injectors should stay cleaner anyway.
Some of them also don`t blend it with Biodiesel or with less than 7% wich can be important as some vehicles aren`t speciefied for more than 5% Fame blend.
Please check your vehicle specs and the fuel distributors informations on this topic.


Diesel fuel - Wikipedia


Both links are in german language and for example only, please check your local websites as the traded fuels can vary depending on region.




R33 Blue Diesel

R33 is a EN590 compliant Blend of 67% fossil diesel 26% HVO (Hydro treated vegatable oil) and 7% FAME diesel.


R33 currently mainly distributed by Shell, developed by several partners(Bosch, Shell, Volkswagen, Neste OY, University of Coburg, Tecosol), available since 2019.
Due to its composition, CO² emissions (wheel to wheel) can be reduced about 22%.
It is marketed as a Premium Diesel in terms of quality and characteristics such as cleaning purposes etc. as described under "Premium Diesel"
The compliance to EN590 ensures that it can be used in every diesel powered engine with respect to the 7% FAME component that may be forbidden by engine/vehicle manufacturer.
Its availabilty is sparse at the moment and I could not find any combined information of availabilty, but Iexpect it to be wider available in the near future.

A quick trial showed that google maps has some gas stations listed for R33 availabilty, so if you are interested give that a try.
First real world feedback from a vehicle fleet that I personally know indicates that it actually runs smoother than common diesel they used before.


R33 BlueDiesel
german language link about R33 (will add more here later)



Biodiesel FAME

Fatty Acid Methyl Esters



A diesel fuel made from biological resources like Soy beans and several other vegetable or animal fats/oils. Major difference to BTL fuel is the chemical process called Transesterification. Regulated by the standards EN14214 and ASTM D 6751 there are some significant differences between both standards in terms of oxidation stability (maybe stated more precisely later).

Can be sold under different names depending on the source used for esterification such as RME, FME, SME also sold in a variety of Blends from B2 (2%) up to B100 (100%) B7 is the Blend currently used in Germany and other European countries (clarification for other countries needed)

FAME diesel is an extremely aggressive solvent and as such causes several well known problems with seals and hoses also dissolves remnants from other fuels when poured in an old tank and causes clogging of filters, its low oxidation stability causes chemical degradation that clogs up injectors, bad temperature stability also causes early clogging of fuel filters in winter. Due to this multitude of negative characteristics its usually used as blend to reduce negative impact on not specified machinery.



Positive:

Reduces ecological impact when the right resources are used

Can be used as industrial solvent

Runs efficient in specified machinery



Negative:

Low oxidation stability

Highly aggressive / oxidative

Often highly questionable origin of resources


Guide to FAME Biodiesel

Biodiesel - Wikipedia




Fuels may be called XTL

XTL is the name of a fuel family where "X" is a placeholder for the source and "TL" means to-liquid

It coarsly describes various processes that turns varieing sources into a liquid fuel. Due to their nature they contain basically no Sulphur, compared to fossile crude oil, and are mixed from a lesser amount of hydrocarbones, usually around 10 (common diesel around 100) which results in more even combustion and cleaner combustion.
It`s characteristics are specified by the EN15940 European Standard for Paraffinic diesel fuels, since 2016
XTL is often used as a drop in fuel, mixable with fossil and bio diesel, it blends very well and the higher fuel quality allows to upgrade low fossil fuel qualities and helps reduce the amount of emissions of Nitrous oxides and particulate matter.

Does not meet EN590 because of lower density, but other significantly improved factors like higher energy content and higher cetane number together with high molecular consistency compensate that.

GTL (gas to liquid)
GTL is made from Natural Gas and Oxygen , it will be put through a process called "Fischer-Tropsch process" to recieve liquid hydrocarbons that can be processed (cracked) into fuel depending on the needs, for example Diesel.
While GTL is a much cleaner fuel and has its benefits, it is still a fossil fuel and not renewable what separates it from BTL and HVO.

BTL (biomass to liquid)
BTL is made from low value plant based biological wastes or residues that will be put through a gasification process, the resulting gas will then be cleaned and further processed into fuel similiar like it would happen to crude oil but with lesser byproducts.
Technologies used in this process are mainly CO-shift (increase hydrogen) again the Fischer-Tropsch synthesis or the "Methanol to Gasoline" process which is are registered trademark.
BTL fuels are accepted as sustainable by common standards and reduce CO² emission by 90% (based on current scientifical standards)
They are expected to be able to replace about 25% of the fossile fuels used in europe, production on industrial level is currently under development.
As far as I know there is no commercial product available today.


HVO (hydro treated vegetable oil)
HVO is made from waste oils and fats such as industrial frying oil and fat and oil waste from the catering industry where these wastes are getting collected for disposal by specialized companies.
It will then be filtered and put into a pyrolitic process for gasification, gas will be cleaned and put through a synthesis process with the end product of high quality fuels.
HVO is currently available as blend component for diesel (R33 blue diesel) and available in some countries as a pure HVO fuel.

Pure HVO in europe is currently made by the company Neste Oy from Finnland, Eni from Italy and Total of France. Only Neste HVO is distributed over several gas station networks in the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden and Finnland. The distrubution situation in Germany is pretty confusing, because germany has not implemented the EN15940 fuel standard for political reasons, its not available as fuel for the public, only for fleets and companies or as "tool fuel" for diesel powered equipment.
Its also distributed in California and Oregon.



XTL Fully meets or exceeds ASTM D 975 USA

Positive:


Cleaner combustion

Uses existing infrastructure

Readily biodegradable and non-toxic

Fully compatible with exiting engines, no modifications needed

Negative:

EN15940 allows up to 7% FAME (more on that later…)

Depends on ethics of producer not to use Palm-oil or other problematic components


https://toolfuel.eu/wp-content/uploads/pdf/broschueren/neste_renewable_diesel_handbook_german.pdf


Spezifikationen paraffinische Dieselkraftstoffe im Überblick › TOOL-FUEL Services GmbH | Ihr Spezialist für hochwertige Dieselkraftstoffe wie C.A.R.E. Diesel, Shell GTL Fuel, HVO, NExBTL

Comparison between EN15940/EN590/ASTM D975 diesel fuel specifications


CEN ratifies EN15940 standard for paraffinic diesel fuels - F&L Asia
 
Last edited:

El-Dracho

Ambassador, Europe
Moderator
Member
Supporter
Investor

Inventor I

13,232
Lampertheim, Germany
First Name
Bjoern
Last Name
Eldracher
Member #

20111

Ham/GMRS Callsign
DO3BE
Thank you, Mathias, for this interesting and valuable contribution. I am already looking forward to the next parts.

There are some exciting developments in the field of alternative fuels. Perhaps it is also possible to take a look at the history, because as it is often the case in that inventions were made some time ago, but they never really caught on. I have something in my mind about that. I'll have to look it up.
 

NotGumby

Local Expert Germany
Member
Investor

Influencer II

3,682
Frankfurt, Germany
First Name
Rick
Last Name
Voth
Member #

2380

Service Branch
Army Veteran 11B 54E
That's a lot to take in Mathias. I feel like I'm back on the Schulbank! I wasn't tracking the R33 developments. I appreciate the info and making me smarter! I have some reading to do.
 

MazeVX

Rank VI
Launch Member

Influencer II

3,278
Gießen Germany
First Name
Mathias
Last Name
Kreicker
Member #

8002

That's a lot to take in Mathias. I feel like I'm back on the Schulbank! I wasn't tracking the R33 developments. I appreciate the info and making me smarter! I have some reading to do.
I think that I will refine the information on Sunday, I'm lacking a bit of free time with enough brain left at the moment, including as much as I think is useful.
Eventually we will end up with a PDF file that includes the whole article with a bit better layout because the layout here is a bit of a challenge.

Short update on R33, it's been good so far, feels like it's closer to premium diesels than to normal ones,it runs a bit smother given the low Temps in the last days.
Even though I believe they should have skipped the 7% fame.

Oh and I just found out that they are currently testing R33 blue gasoline, was scheduled to be available in late 2021 but as everything is delayed so is this.
 

El-Dracho

Ambassador, Europe
Moderator
Member
Supporter
Investor

Inventor I

13,232
Lampertheim, Germany
First Name
Bjoern
Last Name
Eldracher
Member #

20111

Ham/GMRS Callsign
DO3BE
I think that I will refine the information on Sunday, I'm lacking a bit of free time with enough brain left at the moment, including as much as I think is useful.
Eventually we will end up with a PDF file that includes the whole article with a bit better layout because the layout here is a bit of a challenge.


Short update on R33, it's been good so far, feels like it's closer to premium diesels than to normal ones,it runs a bit smother given the low Temps in the last days.
Even though I believe they should have skipped the 7% fame.

Oh and I just found out that they are currently testing R33 blue gasoline, was scheduled to be available in late 2021 but as everything is delayed so is this.
Hi Mathias,
I am a little curious - haha. How is the Jeep doing with the R33 fuel?
Bjoern
 
  • Like
Reactions: MazeVX and NotGumby

MazeVX

Rank VI
Launch Member

Influencer II

3,278
Gießen Germany
First Name
Mathias
Last Name
Kreicker
Member #

8002

Hi Mathias,
I am a little curious - haha. How is the Jeep doing with the R33 fuel?
Bjoern
Oh its running really good, I'd say comparable to premium, definitely smoother than standard diesel even my coworker (he's got a 2 door jk) noticed it from the outside. So it's smother than the semi premium (agip dieseltech) I usually have.
Oh and BTW I updated a few parts and hopefully finish part 1 tomorrow.
 

MazeVX

Rank VI
Launch Member

Influencer II

3,278
Gießen Germany
First Name
Mathias
Last Name
Kreicker
Member #

8002

Updated main article, part 1 basically finished.

I will ad some links with further explanation of the scientific/chemical part about how its made when I get my hands on good resources.
 

El-Dracho

Ambassador, Europe
Moderator
Member
Supporter
Investor

Inventor I

13,232
Lampertheim, Germany
First Name
Bjoern
Last Name
Eldracher
Member #

20111

Ham/GMRS Callsign
DO3BE
Updated main article, part 1 basically finished.

I will ad some links with further explanation of the scientific/chemical part about how its made when I get my hands on good resources.
Thank you, Mathias, for all the work and research on this topic. So we get a super information base at the end! Great!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MazeVX