I'm so confused!

[Citizen Rob]

I'm looking for a UHF/VHF radio for my truck. I would really like to be able to use APRS and tie it in with Backcountry Navigator. I'm debating between the Kenwood TM-D710 or the Yaesu FTM-400, and leaning toward the Yaesu. Some of the guys that I go to the desert with run the Baja series of races and use "Race Radios" like those sold by Rugged Radio. Those radios TX/RX at 150-156Mhz and from my understanding do not require a license but are incapable of dipping into the 2m amateur frequencies.

Does anyone know if either the Kenwood or Yaesu are able to broadcast at the "Race radio" frequencies? (I'm pretty sure that both can receive but neither radio says anything about broadcasting) Also, if I had the frequencies pre-programmed into my mobile UHF/VHF radio, how would it be different than having a separate race radio? I have seen the MARS mods on HRO, and remember using MARS when I was in the Middle East and in Central America with the Army, but not sure if that's what is needed.

Any help would be appreciated

73

Rob
KM6YSM

 

[Chris Arnesen]

Hi Rob,

The Rugged Radios products are "commercial" radios with pre-programmed frequencies. They are licensed frequencies!

There have been a few rumors floating around (from they having a nation-wide license to they are all pirate frequencies), however Rugged Radios make it clear that while they pre-program them, the user is responsible for the legal operation of the radio. Personally, I would not run on any of those frequencies unless I could prove I had permission from the actual license holder (along with a copy of that license and permission letter).

If you want to use those frequencies, I would recommend buying a specific commercial radio to use on them.

 

[WareWolf MoonWall]

I am going to respond, assuming little to no knowledge by the thread owner about amateur radio, purely based on the content of the question. I do not mean over-explain, but want my response to be useful.

An amateur license isn't going to cover communicating in that range (VHF / 2m stops at 148), as their products (Rugged Radio) are using PLMR (Private Land Mobile Radio, also called LMR) frequencies and require a PLMR / LMR license from the FCC. License lasts 10 years and varies in price (looks more expensive than HAM by far).

A MARS mod, which can definitely open up the hardware, does not make it any more legal if you aren't following proper licensed use of the band. So to answer your question, listening in that range with any number of HAM radio is likely going to work, but the transmission will be blocked by the device without opening up the equipment. My advice is that you would do better to just get the same equipment as the others you plan to communicate with and avoid the additional potential troubles of taking amateur radios out of band.

Also, I'm not sure how much of a response you will be able to receive in this area since most folks will want to stay away from any conversation which leads to making the amateur radio group seem out of control as that can be revoked licenses or legislation that hurts everyone. Play fair with the technology, and hope that helps. :)

 

[Citizen Rob]

I am going to respond, assuming little to no knowledge by the thread owner about amateur radio, purely based on the content of the question. I do not mean over-explain, but want my response to be useful.

An amateur license isn't going to cover communicating in that range (VHF / 2m stops at 148), as their products (Rugged Radio) are using PLMR (Private Land Mobile Radio, also called LMR) frequencies and require a PLMR / LMR license from the FCC. License lasts 10 years and varies in price (looks more expensive than HAM by far).

A MARS mod, which can definitely open up the hardware, does not make it any more legal if you aren't following proper licensed use of the band. So to answer your question, listening in that range with any number of HAM radio is likely going to work, but the transmission will be blocked by the device without opening up the equipment. My advice is that you would do better to just get the same equipment as the others you plan to communicate with and avoid the additional potential troubles of taking amateur radios out of band.

Also, I'm not sure how much of a response you will be able to receive in this area since most folks will want to stay away from any conversation which leads to making the amateur radio group seem out of control as that can be revoked licenses or legislation that hurts everyone. Play fair with the technology, and hope that helps. :)

Well, you hit the nail on the head with the little to no knowledge about amateur radio! LOL I received my license in November.

I somewhat figured that my question would fall into an issue with obtaining licensing for different bandwidths, but more than anything I was looking for a legal and efficient all in one solution vs. running multiple radios. I guess that's what magnetic mounts are for :)

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

 

[Prerunner1982]

but more than anything I was looking for a legal and efficient all in one solution vs. running multiple radios. .

There isn't one. Each radio service has certain requirements that the radios have to meet and be certified on, except amateur radio with has guidelines but no certification.
So while a radio modified to work on ham radio is ok on ham radio it no longer meets the requirements for the radio service it was originally certified for. A ham radio modified to work on other radio services is not certified for that service.

 

[brien]

I'm looking for a UHF/VHF radio for my truck. I would really like to be able to use APRS and tie it in with Backcountry Navigator. I'm debating between the Kenwood TM-D710 or the Yaesu FTM-400, and leaning toward the Yaesu.

Others have left great responses to your other legality questions, so I'll just offer some advice to this Kenwood vs Yaesu question. They are both fantastic radios, so you'll be perfectly happy with either one. If APRS and packet radio is your main desire, I would recommend the TM-D710G over the FTM-400, it has a wider RX range and offers more full-featured APRS capability, and has an actual built-in TNC. The faceplate is more usable, in my opinion, as it features actual tactile buttons instead of touch controls. some of the buttons are programmable, and most of the common features or adjustments you'd want to make are one or two button presses away. I have heard that some commonly desired functions are hidden under a number of touch screen menus in the Yaesu, but I haven't actually used one myself to verify. The additional features do come at a bit of a price bump. I think the Kenwood is generally about $100 more expensive than the Yaesu. Check the prices at HRO as they tend to run specials quite regularly on both of these radios. I think I was able to save about $90 on my D710G when i bought it through HRO

 

[WareWolf MoonWall]

Well, you hit the nail on the head with the little to no knowledge about amateur radio! LOL I received my license in November.

I somewhat figured that my question would fall into an issue with obtaining licensing for different bandwidths, but more than anything I was looking for a legal and efficient all in one solution vs. running multiple radios. I guess that's what magnetic mounts are for :)

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

You can get antennas that should be able to pull double duty - a silver lining in all this I suppose.

One to look into is the Comet CA-2x4SR. They not only fold over to lower clearance when not in use, but have a spring kit so it will handle tree encounters etc..

You can get them with a couple different connectors and rig it to your vehicle in a whole variety of mounting options. Depending on your need to listen and or transmit from either device there are different solutions to bring it all together.

If you have the ability to visit a Ham Radio Outlet, they would be a great resource to not just help you get your head around your needs and options, but actually show you the gear you need to reach your goals.

As others have said, to do everything you are researching your only legal recourse is to run multiple radios if you cant get the group alignment in technology. This is a common scenario for radio operators. Overland Bound is full of threads about using CB vs Ham vs FRS/GMRS, and YouTube has tons of videos on the subject too.

Welcome to the club! :)

 

[Prerunner1982]

Hamfest can be a good opportunity to get some hands on with radios as well.
There are two coming up in your area.

 

[Ubiety]

Does anyone know if either the Kenwood or Yaesu are able to broadcast at the "Race radio" frequencies?

I have two TM-D700s (older version) and have nothing but good things to say about them. One has been modified (removed a couple surface mount transistors) to open up the available bands TX and RX). This may be an option for you, search the internet to see what is available. Its been so long ago that I do not remember what it gave me - I do remember it gave me the GMRS bands. Yeah I was the guy at 50W when everybody else was at milliwatts :)

One radio is part of the home base station for my geeky interests; the other sits in the Jeep and is connected to a Raspberry Pi with connected GPS puck and running gpsd. The Ras Pi feeds the TM-D700 GPS NMEA sentences. The Ras Pi also runs my Iridium messenger goop.

 

[HeliSniper]

I have repetitively asked Rugged Radio's, via their website and Amazon Q&A, if their radios are legal for me to possess and I keep getting the run-around. So I can only assume that while it is not illegal for them to sell the radios, it is illegal for me to transmit on one if I do not have the proper Licences. It is frustrating that a company would sell something and not explain the ramifications of its use. This can only serve to irritate the FCC and at some point will close off the frequencies for all non-governmental use or other such restrictions. My industry is good about self policing so we can keep the Fed and its political red tape out as much as possible. I can only hope we can do the same here, however unlikely because they are making a profit selling the radios. So what is a guy to do.........?

 

[Prerunner1982]

I know the Rugged Radios are programmed with at least Business band frequencies which require a license and likely GMRS frequencies..... which require a license and maybe the MURS frequencies for which the radio puts out too much power...
It's also the buyers responsibility to know the license requirements for the radio they are purchasing, look at any ham radio retailer website they don't make it well known that a license is required for them either. However, I do agree they (RR) push their radios for Off roading as if it is ok for any joe blow to have one. While they aren't necessarily wrong, they aren't being good stewards either.