How to tick-off a trail leader

[OTH Overland]

When everyone has a chance to review and suggest edits to a trip BEFORE YOU LEAVE the end result is a trip that has fewer detours with folks who had a hand in the planning and are more eager to work collectively as a group.

One thing really grinds my gears as a trail leader:

Blatantly not following Tread Lightly principles. I have been with folks who know better but still break the principles. All I can figure is they are being pressured by influencers and advertising. It is sickening. As a Tread Trainer I take the opportunity to explain why the action is not appropriate, but humans generally don't like to be told they are wrong or be called out in front of others.​

Great Idea to get input on posted route prior to trip and incorporate into final version BEFORE departing, especially on small to medium sized group, Totally agree on the TL gripe!

 

[armyRN]

Sounds like overlanding with you guys would be “loads” of fun. I previously wanted to meet up with others that share my common interest. After reading this thread, think I’ll stick with solo.

Excellent! Know what you're getting into before you consider signing up. And if it isn't for you or not to your liking, then don't sign-up. Group trips aren't for everyone, or maybe sometimes but not for other trips. I enjoy group trips, but sometimes I just want to be out there on my own.

 

[armyRN]

Interesting read, and thanks to all that replied with insight and experiences. . . My wife and I typically do "solo" backcountry mountaineering, skiing, hiking, and vehicle exploring. As we get older, we have contemplated group trips to meet like-minded people, which was one of the biggest reasons we joined OB. However, I must say, after reading your posts, I am now reluctant. . . We may stick with "solo" adventures for now . . .

Hoka Hey!!!
Akicita


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The important thing is that you're getting out there and having adventures. Group trips aren't for everyone - sounds like you're used to going solo. Don't be afraid to join up with a group sometime though and see how it works for you. You might like it. Some folks do appreciate having some structure and knowing what to expect going into the group trip. I'd rather have just a couple folks join me who are "on board" than a dozen who are going to ultimately be causing issues and such (even if it is just whining).

 

[19mystic96]

Sounds like overlanding with you guys would be “loads” of fun. I previously wanted to meet up with others that share my common interest. After reading this thread, think I’ll stick with solo.

My thoughts exactly. Trips I go on are considered a vacation. There's no need for me to follow a strict schedule or speed. If I want to stop at my leisure or take a detour that I find interesting/fun then I will. Being stuck to a strict route or schedule doesn't sound like a good time to me. I'll just continue solo tripping or heading out with other buddies.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I really try and emphasize that we stick together (I truly believe in safety in numbers, especially when way off the beaten path). I put out on the OB Rally point list of rules & guidelines and such (call me a control freak or a drill sergeant if you want) that if you decide to "drop out", you're no longer considered "with the group". I'm not going to be your 911, I'm not going to go slow or take a long lunch break (etc.) so you can catch up. You know it up front what the expectations are. I don't always know where we'll be stopping for the night, etc. I've had trips where we've had to take a detour, and there was more than one option for the detour. Radios only have so much range, and forget about cell phone coverage where I tend to go.

If you decide to "drop out", you're on your own (good luck on your travels, group runs aren't for everyone, thanks for at least giving us a shot, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the trip). If you catch up later, then great! But I'm not going to add you to the things I'm concerned about while leading a group.

Unfortunately, if you decide to stop early, there may be others in the group that feel you shouldn't be there by yourself so now they might decide to stop early too. So now the group starts to possibly fracture, and the trail leader becomes the bad guy/control freak/whatever if they don't want us to stop now too (somebody's got to be in charge - are you now taking over?). You're possibly putting the trail leader in a bad position here. You're fracturing the group when you do this. Not cool in my opinion. Sorry. This thread is about how to tick off a trail leader - this is one way to do it. Not the way I want to run my trips, or to have to deal with. Of course, attending one of my trips (or any trip really on OB) is totally voluntary, and to a point you can do whatever you want (and at some point I might be happy to see someone leave). I've had folks drop out for various reasons, and I've picked up folks that were traveling solo who we met and they decided to join us for part of the trip.

And yeah; if you're not ready to leave at 0800 (we're not talking "my Jeep won't start" kinda scenario), we're leaving without you. Maybe it will motivate you to hustle and get going, and if you do catch up and join us, be ready the next morning.

Not to mention possible liability - waiver or not! - if something unfortunate were to befall someone who splintered off from your group, only to claim later to an attorney that you abandoned them, leaving them with a vehicle that's inoperative (flat with no or wrong size spare) and somewhat exposed because they couldn't get help

 

[armyRN]

Not to mention possible liability - waiver or not! - if something unfortunate were to befall someone who splintered off from your group, only to claim later to an attorney that you abandoned them, leaving them with a vehicle that's inoperative (flat with no or wrong size spare) and somewhat exposed because they couldn't get help

Yup. And that's why I try and put everything up front, so you fully know what you're getting into. Hopefully it weeds out folks that aren't like minded (and that's the intent - these kinda trips aren't for everyone and that's fine). Planning, organizing, and trying to run and lead a group is work for those of us doing it. And we don't get paid for it. We're trying to help get folks "out there" who otherwise wouldn't feel comfortable doing it solo or want to test the overlanding waters. Plus they're hoping to meet like-minded folks.

I've done some solo overlanding - it was fun, but it kinda scares me sometimes when I think of what would happen if something happened right there in the middle of nowhere. Do I try and walk-out (miles and miles and hopefully find help and leave my vehicle to the whims of vandals and folks with ill intent? Will it still be there & intact when I get back?). Do I stay with the vehicle and hope someone comes along in the next few days who is willing to help me? I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that. My organized trips are usually a weeklong at a minimum. On an organized group run, you might give up some flexibility on your part, but you gain safety in numbers among other benefits. Pick your poison. Know what you're getting into if you're considering an organized trip. Ask questions - on OB when I post a trip, we have a running thread where folks can ask questions and such if I haven't already put it out up-front.

On one of my last trips, we had a slowpoke (just wouldn't keep up intentionally - was ticking me off) in a very nice JL truck with a camper and on 37's. He was way in the back, and slit a sidewall. He was an older guy (late 60's at least?) and besides the fact his tires weighed a ton, he was not exactly in a spot conducive to changing out a flat. Fortunately for him he wasn't out of radio contact (yet), so the two vehicles in front of him (one might have been behind him) had to backtrack to where he was to help him change his flat tire. And it was a hard job for the three of them - he couldn't have changed it by himself. Those of us up front had to wait for quite a while for them to finally show up.

 

[MMc]

I've done some solo overlanding - it was fun, but it kinda scares me sometimes when I think of what would happen if something happened right there in the middle of nowhere. Do I try and walk-out (miles and miles and hopefully find help and leave my vehicle to the whims of vandals and folks with ill intent? Will it still be there & intact when I get back?). Do I stay with the vehicle and hope someone comes along in the next few days who is willing to help me? I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that. My organized trips are usually a weeklong at a minimum. On an organized group run, you might give up some flexibility on your part, but you gain safety in numbers among other benefits. Pick your poison. Know what you're getting into if you're considering an organized trip. Ask questions - on OB when I post a trip, we have a running thread where folks can ask questions and such if I haven't already put it out up-front.

I travel solo in Baja almost monthly, a couple hundred miles of dirt road is normal. I try to keep the rig at 100% all the time because of risks. I have buried it and taken 12 hours to recover. I also have as many recovery stories as most here. I know the risks and chose to live with the the choices I make. I don't go with more than 1 other rig. Reading this thread convinces me why I don't travel with a groups, especially as a leader. I have the upmost respect for those that do

 

[DevilDodge]

only to claim later to an attorney

This is why I steer clear of group activities.

I appreciate a group that has rules and a plan. And some one that can lead enough to stick to them.

Always fun to see how diverse people's opinions are of how to do something.

Good stuff!

 

[ThundahBeagle]

This is why I steer clear of group activities.

I appreciate a group that has rules and a plan. And some one that can lead enough to stick to them.

Always fun to see how diverse people's opinions are of how to do something.

Good stuff!

Yeah, I just...a few years ago my girlfriend went to the Galapagos and Ecuador. The whole trip was planned out for them. They kinda had some time to themselves but also had an itinerary to follow. I'm sure if someone on that trip were "supposed to be" with the group at X time, but decided to swim with dolphins at the wrong spot and got bitten by a shark, they'd try to make a case.

I guess it's one thing if you lived in Ecuador and were around there all the time, you know what you are doing. A different situation if you signed on for a guided tour I guess.

 

[Tundracamper]

Not to mention possible liability - waiver or not! - if something unfortunate were to befall someone who splintered off from your group, only to claim later to an attorney that you abandoned them, leaving them with a vehicle that's inoperative (flat with no or wrong size spare) and somewhat exposed because they couldn't get help

That’s a great point. When one of those “whiners” has a major issue, any “leader” could be open to lawsuit. “They didn’t tell me that rock dropoff was that steep and I’d rip off an axle.” Just one more reason to not be a leader!

 

[armyRN]

Ok... we've kinda gotten sidetracked from the original intent of this thread, to it now becoming a solo vs. group trips debate. And I've fed into it too.

I think we can all agree not everyone is suited or wants to do a group trip. And that's fine - I'm not trying to talk anyone into doing something they don't want to do.

Not everyone wants to follow a timeline, a set departure time, and a set route, and a set of rules. Got it.

I don't need anyone else chiming in saying how they don't like rules, they prefer to go solo damn the possible consequences, etc. We've got it. Group trips aren't for you.

Not everyone can be like Dan Grec (I'm one of his patreons) and spend years doing solo overlanding trips.

This thread is for trail leaders or trip leaders to talk about what ticks them off when leading a group.

Let's get back on track.