HAM Radio with MARS/CAP Mod vs. 2 Radios in Rig (GMRS + HAM)

[socal66]

I'm studying up to get my HAM license so I can get one of those radios and communicate on the trail with that in addition to the GMRS unit I already have. That will pretty much give me coverage on the trail runs one way or another.

I am aware of the ability for HAM radios to be modified under the MARS and/or CAP provisions to be able to both transmit and receive on GMRS bands given that the operator meets the requirements set forth by these provisions.

Do most people on the trail actually meet those requirements or do they just get their units modded and casually use them without worry of the regulations?
Do most people who communicate on the trails with both bands just have a modded HAM unit or do they run separate radios?

 

[Ubiety]

Congratulations on seeking your ham license to stay legal! My gut feel is that most people don’t use MARS modded radios on the trail to transmit on GMRS bands - too large of an investment for non hams when they can just buy a baofeng; and licensed hams tend to follow the rules in my experience.

The issue with the Mars mod and illegal transmissions mostly come down to type certification - that is a radio must be certified by the FCC to operate on a specific set of frequencies and modding means you are operating outside of the legal limits. There are some exceptions to this but trail runs are not one of those exceptions.

That said, the FCC is not out there looking for either non hams or Mars modded radios transmitting where they should not be. That does not make it right and many old hams, such as myself, have seen a negative impact on their hobby by those who are above the law. Strive to be good and do good.

My $0.07 ;)

 

[WareWolf MoonWall]

I will second the response, as far as this community is concerned you are more likely to have feedback on the legal side of the fence then that on the pirate radio side. Even the folks that choose to open sail are not likely to admit or encourage it on an open platform which may be traced back to them, particularly since anyone can see your true name and address by looking up your callsign(s), and reporting folks to the FCC is a bit of a sport for some folks.

Additionally, those with valid reasons to have the modification likely have a valid situation to drive it. Best examples I have heard are folks that do storm chasing or volunteer first responders, since ideally they would have a reason to operate out of band to save lives. Folks aligned with some of the emergency radio groups (ARES) that have helped out with natural disasters or whatnot may also fall into that camp. Again, I would imagine that folks in these situations are well clear of the laws for legal operations.

Back to communities like this... I think part of the enjoyment of the hobby for many is designing their cockpits of radio and trail gear, as well as strapping all the lightning rods, I mean antennas, to their vehicles.

What I think a good practice looks like, is a mobile HAM station that can push 30-50w from your vehicle. This will have the reach and more likely listeners to help you get out of trouble. Supplement that with a halfway decent GMRS setup of handheld radios. They will likely have the reach for vehicle to vehicle ( when moving my family across the country our three vehicle caravan had no issues reaching a couple miles out without external antennas, and I can communicate to my wife when she goes into town from my little hill the house is on ~3 miles inside my home to inside the grocery store) in a convoy, are handy around the campsite, and your whole house is covered with the single license. If you do a little research, this setup is not expensive and works very well.

My few cents.

 

[Ubiety]

To answer your questions. Hahahaha
From my informal surveys in private conversations all of the hams that I have talked to run dual radios in order to stay legal and many of those hams, including myself, have modded radios for emergency use. In any case great question and kudos for seeking your license and gathering more information.

 

[Jedi]

I will add my third agreement that the correct answer will always be do not use non-type accepted radios on services that require FCC type acceptance. The only radio services beyond the license amateur radio bands that are accepted for amateur radios are MARS and CAP frequencies. Use of these frequencies is only allowed by authorized members of the Military Auxiliary Radio System or the Civil Air Patrol. Participation in ARES, RACES, CERT, or a volunteer fire department does not provide any permissions to use auxiliary radios outside of the licensed bands.

 

[Ubiety]

I will add my third agreement that the correct answer will always be do not use non-type accepted radios on services that require FCC type acceptance. The only radio services beyond the license amateur radio bands that are accepted for amateur radios are MARS and CAP frequencies. Use of these frequencies is only allowed by authorized members of the Military Auxiliary Radio System or the Civil Air Patrol. Participation in ARES, RACES, CERT, or a volunteer fire department does not provide any permissions to use auxiliary radios outside of the licensed bands.

Great info, thanks!

 

[socal66]

Thanks for all the responses. I'll plan on using two radios instead of trying to mod a HAM unit. I was looking at this from just a GMRS communications perspective but I see now that the issue isn't so much getting access to the GMRS channels as it is the mod opens up transmission access to a much wider frequency range which includes those used by emergency responders that wouldn't be too happy with me communicating on their bands accidental or otherwise.

 

[Downs]

My answer. Know what the rules say and know what the consequences are but also live in reality. The FCC lacks the manpower and resources to track down the "small fries" who other than using a non certified radio are operating largely within the bounds of the PART95/E regs.

 

[John Bishop]

All legalities aside, modding your new radio will void the warranty. Whatever that may be worth.

 

[Kirk M.]

They make some pretty compact radios so installing two isn't so bad room wise - Running two radios is great - monitor both gmrs and ham frequencies. I have a few radios I swap in and out of my cars and I use the mag mount antennas because I use the drive through car wash. Great thing about multiple radios - is if one fails, you have a back up- rare as that is - it happens. Bad water crossing - roll over - blown radio - Nice to have back up. I use both GMRS and ham radios - Licensed for both. And I still run a CB.

 

[ptgarcia]

I have a modded Icom IC-V8000 in my truck that I've used for the past 15 years, mostly to listen in on off road desert racing. If I'm in my truck I much prefer that radio over the Baofeng handhelds.

 

[NC Old Man Overland]

I was running two radios. An older Yaesu FT5100 and a Baofeng. I upgraded to an ICOM 2730a to get rid of two radios, I also wanted more than 20 memory channels and some other features that ICOM (and newer radios have).... I really do not get on 2 m or 440 that much, but trying to get active as more and more overlanding folks get their amateur radio license. Just installed yesterday.

 

[WareWolf MoonWall]

I was running two radios. An older Yaesu FT5100 and a Baofeng. I upgraded to an ICOM 2730a to get rid of two radios, I also wanted more than 20 memory channels and some other features that ICOM (and newer radios have).... I really do not get on 2 m or 440 that much, but trying to get active as more and more overlanding folks get their amateur radio license. Just installed yesterday.View attachment 189300

That is one of the coolest head unit mounts I've seen!

 

[Prerunner1982]

That is one of the coolest head unit mounts I've seen!

Ram mount Xgrip. Commonly used for phones but useful for other things as well.

 

[WareWolf MoonWall]

That is one of the coolest head unit mounts I've seen!

Ram mount Xgrip. Commonly used for phones but useful for other things as well.

I must be blind, I don't see any bases that look like yours / attach to the vent without obstruction.

 

[Prerunner1982]

That is one of the coolest head unit mounts I've seen!

Ram mount Xgrip. Commonly used for phones but useful for other things as well.

I must be blind, I don't see any bases that look like yours / attach to the vent without obstruction.

Not mine, I was just going off the pic. It could be a DIY mount to the vent or a combination of products. We will have to wait for @NCPI007 to respond.

 

[Flipper]

One point to make, when you folks post your call sign in your avatar bio and post your upcoming trips. All someone has to do is go the the FCC website, search, load in your call sign, your name and complete address will come up. So when post your upcoming wheeling vacation you are advertising your home and address for a robbery. I picked that up from a professional burglar I used to know that I worked with after he went straight.
If you think the FCC is roaming the woods locating illegal Baofeng radios with RDF thats not going to happen. We had a neighbor that was running an illegal station harassing Truckers with a linear amp. It took us over a year of filing complaints and attempted contacts to get the FCC off their buts to do something. Think DMV, that was their attitude. “ Well Mr. ____ , profanity and threatening to kill people and police on a CB isn’t a priority with the FCC, now if this was a police matter (which it was) it would be a different story.” I got her extension number and explained I will have the Police call her. Got on the phone with the 2 detectives that were assigned to the case and had them call her right back. Next thing I know I get a call from the FCC explaining this is now a joint Federal and Local operation. He wouldn’t use specific names so the Police didn’t have “victims” to press charges. They finally got him for disrupting Air communications....We got him evicted....he moved...2 weeks later he was on the air again. I let it go after that because he wasn’t bleeding onto our TV and radios so it was somebody else’s problem.

 

[M Rose]

One point to make, when you folks post your call sign in your avatar bio and post your upcoming trips. All someone has to do is go the the FCC website, search, load in your call sign, your name and complete address will come up. So when post your upcoming wheeling vacation you are advertising your home and address for a robbery. I picked that up from a professional burglar I used to know that I worked with after he went straight.
If you think the FCC is roaming the woods locating illegal Baofeng radios with RDF thats not going to happen. We had a neighbor that was running an illegal station harassing Truckers with a linear amp. It took us over a year of filing complaints and attempted contacts to get the FCC off their buts to do something. Think DMV, that was their attitude. “ Well Mr. ____ , profanity and threatening to kill people and police on a CB isn’t a priority with the FCC, now if this was a police matter (which it was) it would be a different story.” I got her extension number and explained I will have the Police call her. Got on the phone with the 2 detectives that were assigned to the case and had them call her right back. Next thing I know I get a call from the FCC explaining this is now a joint Federal and Local operation. He wouldn’t use specific names so the Police didn’t have “victims” to press charges. They finally got him for disrupting Air communications....We got him evicted....he moved...2 weeks later he was on the air again. I let it go after that because he wasn’t bleeding onto our TV and radios so it was somebody else’s problem.

you do realize your IP address can also trace you back to your house correct? besides im not worried about someone looking up my call sign and figuring out where I live... if the pizza guy can't find my house with my address without calling me asking for directions, how is a burglar going to find me?

 

[ptgarcia]

you do realize your IP address can also trace you back to your house correct? besides im not worried about someone looking up my call sign and figuring out where I live... if the pizza guy can't find my house with my address without calling me asking for directions, how is a burglar going to find me?

I think the point made is don't advertise when you will be leaving your home for extended periods because obtaining one's address is so easy, and while you're gone you home is an easy target for burglars. At least that's what I took from it.