General Observations about the influx of people to the outdoor world

[2dub]

There's no doubt that the interest in outdoor activities including overlanding, camping, hiking has seen a dramatic uptick in recent years.

Also, we've seen an uptick in trails, campgrounds and other facilities closing because of poor behavior of the general public abusing these facilities . Like this thread : Lost 5 more formerly awesome camping spots in Colorado...

This past weekend my son and I went camping at a local state park. But this location was actually our 3rd choice of where to go, but the other 2 were already fully booked, which we've never encountered before. But it wasn't a compromise because it is still a very beautiful park, we've just been there somewhat recently and wanted a little change. Even my 16 y/o son said multiple times "What's wrong with people." Friday night there were some young ladies who were up yelling and screaming until 2:00 am, which prompted us to have to call a park ranger, which I've never done before. There was more litter than I've ever seen. when we went on the trails we didn't take a trash bag with us, but we both filled up our cargo pants pockets with trash. Also, just laying in the middle of the trail was a pretty fresh pile of dog crap. Then one of the walking trails had some massive ruts along the side like somebody tried to use them for off-road purposes and I highly doubt they were left by the rangers. I appeared someone was intentionally trying to spray mud and rut the trail up.

Then also I subscribe to this Facebook page Corolla Beach Idiots: Log into Facebook



I live in the same county as Corolla and I enjoy the beaches, but over recent years just the number of people thinking they can just go out and drive on really soft sand floors me. Not to mention there's no shortage of signage stating 4x4 only, 1/2 ton 4x4's - 20 PSI Max, 3/4 ton 4x4 - 35 PSI Max. Not counting the hundreds of 2wd cars that regularly get stuck. (Which there are some hilarious photos of that and Semi's and other non-appropriate vehicles getting stuck too)

But my point is the vehicles I showed above should be perfectly capable.

But you have these PTA cruiser vehicles that the owner has no clue how to take advantage of the capability of their vehicle and just say oh, I have 4wd I'll go drive on the beach. And they really do dumb it down for you by telling you to air down, yet nobody reads the signs . Now fortunately for me these people get a nice little fine and help keep my taxes low and one of our High Schools top ranked in the country, so begrudgingly I say, "welcome idiots"

All kidding aside the system for enjoying the outdoor is broken. But what is the answer???

Have people take and provide proof of a Tread Lightly! or Leave No Trace knowledge before being allowed access?

I think we have too many laws and regulations as it is. We cant enforce common sense and courtesy.

Right now I'm just relying on hope of one of two things:

1. The pandemic forced some of these people out into the great outdoors and hopefully many of those people discovered it just wasn't their thing and will disappear as quickly as they appeared once things get more back to normal.
2. Those who actually took a liking to the outdoors, learn and grow from their experience becoming better stewards of the outdoors.

 

[Anak]

Personal theory: I think many of these "idiots" lacked fathers to teach them better.

Could be they were raised by a single mom, or could be their dad was just one of those who worked all the time and never spent time with his family, or what little time he did spend wasn't spent teaching. Or maybe they had a father who never had a father to teach him and so they had nothing they could pass along. Any number of ways to get there, but I see an awful lot that tells me "idiots" never learned the lessons a father should have taught them.

Any way you slice it, there are lots of these folks out there, and somehow they need to become educated.

I think sites like this do a good job of offering help in that department, but I don't know how many of the "idiots" are going to seek an education. The education may need to be applied to them. Fines are one way of applying it. Personal instruction is even better. But who wants to get personal with an "idiot"? It runs the risk of being one of those "folks might not be able to tell the difference" situations. Anyone who has the will and the skill to do certainly has my blessing.

If nothing else, set the better example. Never fall for the "everyone else is doing it" trap.

As for me, I train my children. They will know better. And if they ever demonstrate otherwise I will most personally show them the error of their ways. In a way that only a father can.

 

[grubworm]

There are too many people...

 

[Red_Leaf_Overland]

In the past I have found that there is a major lack of education and a lot of people just seem to have a blatant disregard for nature.
Around my area 4x4s don't need a permit to run trails but there are less available to them than atvs and snowmobiles that run on a permit basis to help maintain trails. There are always people that end up stuck on a snowmobile trail in the winter and get massive fines (largest I heard of was $15-20k to remove a greyhound bus from a trail). Every time someone tells them they are doing it incorrectly and try to teach them where they can and can't go, they argue and basically say a trail is a trail and others who also do things incorrectly chime in to back them up.
I think in our area if we were to implement a trail permit is might fade away some of the lack of education, but not the deal with the people who just don't care.
I am afraid and almost convinced that we will see an end to free general use/crown land in the future because people can't be trusted.

 

[MidOH]

Why do they fine a truck for getting stuck in sand?

Is there a sea turtle nest under that or something? Kicking up too much dust? Ruining water clarity?

 

[Boostpowered]

Why do they fine a truck for getting stuck in sand?

Is there a sea turtle nest under that or something? Kicking up too much dust? Ruining water clarity?

It's canada. but I'd imagine at least part of that was the cost of a tow truck to get em out, offroad tows aren't cheap.

 

[RJ Howell]

Man do I hear you! I looked forward to these retirement years for themed-week adventures with less folks around. Then came 2020... Not only are the weekender's out in increasing numbers, but the weekday's are getting crowded. I'm finding free spots are diminishing due to folks over staying the limits, basically moving in! I don't post my tracks/routes to the general public any longer. I just don't wish to be the one that lead to the closure of another spot. Instead I share only with those I know and are like minded. It may be contrary to what OB stands for, yet we do need to protect what we have, preserve what we have and share responsibly.

 

[Shakes355]

Not a new situation, just amplified. I feel you, though. I don't generally agree with the pay-to-play arguments due to their regressive nature, but a yearly access fee for state parks works pretty well here in WA.

I think a lot of this could be tamped out with active and sustained ad campaigns at the state level similar to what they do already with Covid and state lottery, etc. Most folks may seem indifferent, but a lot of it is just garden variety ignorance.

 

[Boostpowered]

What everyone isn't taking into account is many of these people aren't camping. They are newly homeless people due to recent events.
They aren't so bad off yet that they are living in the inner city under a bridge they still have a vehicle and possibly a low paying job still but have been displaced due to higher housing prices and taxes. With all the glamping accessories overlanding has created it isn't as hard of a sell anymore to " rough it" out in nature.

 

[Anak]

Ah.

We are back to "Overlanding is living like a hobo".

 

[old_man]

My frustrations lie in people that think if they buy all the cool stuff that they immediately become an expert. In rock crawling for instance, they argue that if you don't have 42" tires you are a nobody. Hell I ran all the hardest trails in Colorado back in the day on 31's whey they were considered extreme.

I will take experience and skill any day over equipment. I will never forget feeling proud that I made it to the end of what I thought was a pretty hard trail many years ago, only to find a burned out hippy in an old Datsun B210.

 

[grubworm]

I will never forget feeling proud that I made it to the end of what I thought was a pretty hard trail many years ago, only to find a burned out hippy in an old Datsun B210.

...that's called better living thru chemistry....

 

[Clrussell]

I’ll admit it I’m one of the newbies to the “scene”.

COVID pushed me out of my norm, I’m normally a lake rat and spend damn near every weekend on it. However with boat sales like they were last year I was boatless. So it pushed me further into the woods. Floating more rivers, back to hiking, into vehicle based exploration.

I see why people destroy stuff and it does suck. But simple teaching solves 75% of the problem because they don’t know any better. The other 25% are a lost cause.

So before criticizing, maybe we try to educate. If that doesn’t work a solid smile and wave then walk away.

in all honesty I’m glad more people are going outside. The amount of couch potatoes/ phone screen magnets is sad.

 

[Clrussell]

well, by definition, a couch potato is lazy and unmotivated...not the type of folk i want to see flooding the outdoors and making messes. they do WAY less harm when stuck to the cushion in front of the idiot box.

i see you are in arkansas. we go to arkansas a LOT and always marvel on how clean it is. we camp at daisy state park a lot and spend a lot of time on the mulberry and buffalo river. again, it is always clean and the state parks are really nice. for $14 a night i get a camp spot and access to water and a heated bath house. you mentioned educating people and maybe that is being done better in arkansas for some reason. there is some trash around, but overall i thought the state parks and public areas were very well maintained and the people seemed more respectable toward nature.

i live in the swamps and you can go to any boat launch and it looks like people bring their trash from home and dump it there. not sure what the deal is.

.oh it’s definitely gotten worse over the last couple years or maybe I notice it more. However it is very clean compared to some places. Headed to the Buffalo this weekend actually. I’m always super pleased with how well people pull their head out of their ass and pickup after themselves around there.

 

[haaken675]

Lack of personal responsibility and accountability....This is permeating every facet of our culture. When you tell people the government takes care of everything for you and nothing is your fault, it's no wonder people stop caring.

 

[RJ Howell]

What everyone isn't taking into account is many of these people aren't camping. They are newly homeless people due to recent events.
They aren't so bad off yet that they are living in the inner city under a bridge they still have a vehicle and possibly a low paying job still but have been displaced due to higher housing prices and taxes.

Can't agree with this! Not with the vehicles I'm seeing!

 

[grubworm]

Can't agree with this! Not with the vehicles I'm seeing!

yeah, i'm seeing a lot of vehicles, too. we just got back from 2 weeks out west and even places like carlsbad caverns have the parking lot FILLED with vehicles and a lot of them are fancy RVs and sprinter vans, etc. we were in taos and saw a lot of decked out 4x4 vans there. i dont know of any homeless people driving $250,000 coaches or $150,000 sprinter/revel vans. boondocking in utah, arizona and NM were filled with people and most had very expensive rigs and towing expensive razors and other atvs. no, its a lot of folk with some serious coin flooding the areas. the "homeless" for the most part are confined to cities where they can poo on sidewalks with impunity....

 

[smritte]

This isn't much different then all of the other fads I've seen in my life. In the 70's it was trendy to have a down jacket and people started flooding the wilderness. I was in high school and was a part of it. 80's I watched 4wds become a huge fad. I was already into that and saw all my favorite places become over run with idiots driving new vehicles. Then it was boats, then sand toys, ATV's, Jeep with the TJ, side by sides, Jeep again with the JK, drones and now off road camping. Have you seen the E Bike?.
Every time these things become fads, there's those who screw it up because they don't understand etiquette or even care. Now we have new laws.

I know there have been more fads than that during my life time, those are the ones that effected me.

 

[Boostpowered]

I will disagree once again plenty of senior citizens have traded in their homes for an expensive rv, and without a home what are you? I've seen tons of younger vanlife folks who have no physical address just a po box somewhere. This is nothing new just more of them out there. Just like everything else there are different levels you can be homeless and still have income and have things car, food,clothes etc. When you see someone living on the streets how you'd traditionally think of homeless they are at the bottom of the barrel. They got hooked on drugs or their life plan went to shit. Just because it don't fit your narrative of what a homeless person is don't mean they aren't homeless.

 

[MidOH]

Only people that can enjoy the outdoors care about it. Sure, home bodies might virtue signal about saving the forests or whatever. But they'll never actually lift a finger to help.

The influx of new users brings leverage to improve trail access and awareness. A few trashed spots is a small price to pay (usually). That also gives you time to close the trail for maintenance, repairs, cleanup, and re-routing. If the trail is over used, or being spun up by newbs, add skill level gates to keep the weaklings out. The political power, and demand, of popular spots, out weighs the inconvenience of a few bad apples.

(Skill Gates: Gate with ruts, moguls, step up, or rocks underneath. So that properly sized and capable trucks can make it through, but trail ruining open diff 2wd's and motorhomes can't. No idea what these type of gates are called in your area.)

Unfortunately, it's well past time for SXS and ATV bans. Plated motorcycle and trucks only on certain trails. Motorcycle, mountain bikes, and horses only, on others. SXS users are the biggest douches out there right now. Not woodsy frat parities, which still suck, with all of their litter and extra fire rings. Those happen from time to time, but aren't normal. The SXS crowd is the worst bunch that I've seen. Roaring around blind corners at full throttle. Zipping through quiet country towns with open exhaust at 3 AM. Extra points for blinding illegal lights, lighted whips, beer, and loud stereos.

It's like every 80's kid that ruined boating with their darn jetski's, grew up and bought a SXS.