Fallen trees on the trail

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I never even knew there was such a thing. The way I grew up our chainsaw operator course was if we had long enough arms to crank it!

On the job training is how I learned most everything I know. Common sense and caution should be the name of the game.

 

[Downs]

I never even knew there was such a thing. The way I grew up our chainsaw operator course was if we had long enough arms to crank it!

I've been to a few saw courses though the Fire Department. They were useful. Far better than just picking up a saw and going to town with no experience, but common sense can go a long way. And saw chaps. They can really save your legs. A chainsaw is insanely dangerous if used improperly.

 

[Sasquatch SC]

I've been to a few saw courses though the Fire Department. They were useful. Far better than just picking up a saw and going to town with no experience, but common sense can go a long way. And saw chaps. They can really save your legs. A chainsaw is insanely dangerous if used improperly.

I'm not downplaying the dangers and experience needed with a chainsaw. In fact, I think these classes are great to keep people from getting hurt. I just never knew they existed. I grew up as a farm boy in the deep south with cutting wood being a year-round chore. We had to cut fire lines, clear roads, keep trees from leaning over the fence lines that could fall during a storm, etc, etc. There were a few years during college and immediately following it wasn't as common for me to work a saw, but I now live on my own hobby farm in a holler in the foothills. So I'm always having to drop trees that are starting to drop off the inclines or after storms come through I've even had to cut trees out of the road to get to work.
I reckon a chainsaw class can be likened to gun safety courses. Some people have been raised and lived their whole life with them, but other people need to learn the dos and don'ts.
I own saw chaps, but they aren't something I carry on the trail. However, a couple good wedges are a must especially if you are on the trail. It could be an extreme pain in the ass if you pinch your chain and can't free it. Banging a couple wedges in can save you from a big headache or a bent bar.

 

[TexasGMG]

I'm not downplaying the dangers and experience needed with a chainsaw. In fact, I think these classes are great to keep people from getting hurt. I just never knew they existed. I grew up as a farm boy in the deep south with cutting wood being a year-round chore. We had to cut fire lines, clear roads, keep trees from leaning over the fence lines that could fall during a storm, etc, etc. There were a few years during college and immediately following it wasn't as common for me to work a saw, but I now live on my own hobby farm in a holler in the foothills. So I'm always having to drop trees that are starting to drop off the inclines or after storms come through I've even had to cut trees out of the road to get to work.
I reckon a chainsaw class can be likened to gun safety courses. Some people have been raised and lived their whole life with them, but other people need to learn the dos and don'ts.
I own saw chaps, but they aren't something I carry on the trail. However, a couple good wedges are a must especially if you are on the trail. It could be an extreme pain in the ass if you pinch your chain and can't free it. Banging a couple wedges in can save you from a big headache or a bent bar.

Ditto on the wedges .

 

[MidOH]

Many if not most of the roads we overland on are private roads built by resource companies to access the resource. So even driving on them should require permission. Once you start "logging" on them you definitely need permission.... or turn around. You are on a private road.

If you are on a public road or highway, contact the authority responsible for maintenance.

"Passage of the convoy"..... this is why roads are gated and decommissioned. We sometimes think we have the right to have a private party on public or private land. One of the reasons I prefer to overland alone. So many considerations once you break out the chainsaws. Where will you throw the logs? Into the ditch? Which could/will block the flow of water leading to a wash out and contamination of the drinking water off the watershed?

Best choice, if you do not have permission from the local authority to remove the obstruction, turn around. Look for signage to find out whose road you are on. Notify them. The sense of entitlement that your convoy schedule is your top concern is what leads resource companies to gating or digging a ditch across the road to stop the public from creating a problem.

Your forests must not grow like mine.

Road maintenance is a requirement of all overlanders in my group rides. Chainsaws, branch loppers, and shrub scissors, are common tools on almost every truck. Toss the logs and branches back into the woods, not into the ditch or rivers. When you get the saw out, don't just clear the fallen log. Spend an extra 10 minutes to clear branches and such as well.

Waiting for a broken truck, or someone winching? Do some trail maint. Nobody is going to be upset if you trim a 2 lane road, so that it stays a 2 lane road.

DOT and parks hasn't the ability to cater to the overlanding crowd.

 

[Billiebob]

On the job training is how I learned most everything I know. Common sense and caution should be the name of the game.

I live in logging country, most of our contractors run annual courses for their fallers. It pays in a reduction of their WCB rates. And that is big bucks since since WCB Rates for Fallers are higher than any other category. I call it a reflection on the level of professionalism in your area. Our Community College runs Chainsaw Safety Courses every year.

Safety | Selkirk College

In light of the COVID-19 situation, Fall Protection Group (3M Safety Training) are granting a temporary extension for Fall Protection certification.

selkirk.ca

 

[MidOH]

But before you clear the trail. Check the log for wear, little logs or rocks leading to it, or for evidence that it was placed there on purpose. You might have made a wrong turn onto a black diamond ATV trail.

Skip ahead to 4:39 to learn the proper technique to pass Subaru's, Prius's, and GM Avalanche's.

I did most of the ATV trails in Ocala Nat forest in a YJ on accident. But no harm done. FL doesn't have trees to clear.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Many if not most of the roads we overland on are private roads built by resource companies to access the resource. So even driving on them should require permission. Once you start "logging" on them you definitely need permission.... or turn around. You are on a private road.

If you are on a public road or highway, contact the authority responsible for maintenance.

"Passage of the convoy"..... this is why roads are gated and decommissioned. We sometimes think we have the right to have a private party on public or private land. One of the reasons I prefer to overland alone. So many considerations once you break out the chainsaws. Where will you throw the logs? Into the ditch? Which could/will block the flow of water leading to a wash out and contamination of the drinking water off the watershed?

Best choice, if you do not have permission from the local authority to remove the obstruction, turn around. Look for signage to find out whose road you are on. Notify them. The sense of entitlement that your convoy schedule is your top concern is what leads resource companies to gating or digging a ditch across the road to stop the public from creating a problem.

Many if not all the roads you are talking about are not private property. The roads are called right of ways. The land on both sides may be private (or government owned) but the road is basically public where user rules apply, so to speak.

On the way to my family ranch we must cross through many private ranches, with gates and fencing for each land owner. Most of the gates are locked with many locks, each lock belonging to a different land owner. Locked gates mean "no public access", or right of way, other wise it is open to public access.

Clearing an obstruction from a road that is public access is the responsibility of everyone who uses that road. If a tree has fallen across the road (or a rock for that matter) on federal or state owned land the obstruction may be removed off the road (but not mandatory). If you take the wood then you must have a permit to keep it. As long as the tree is on the ground it is considered dead wood by the forest service but only harvestable with a permit.

Each state may have different standards for their government land but all states honor public right of ways as a means of getting to one place or another.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I live in logging country, most of our contractors run annual courses for their fallers. It pays in a reduction of their WCB rates. And that is big bucks since since WCB Rates for Fallers are higher than any other category. I call it a reflection on the level of professionalism in your area. Our Community College runs Chainsaw Safety Courses every year.

Safety | Selkirk College

In light of the COVID-19 situation, Fall Protection Group (3M Safety Training) are granting a temporary extension for Fall Protection certification.

selkirk.ca

That's a good thing. Idiots need training. I define an idiot as a new born who knows nothing at birth and learns as he ages. Some people are not educated (as in experience) and need schooling. Others of us learn from
Our experiences in life and things come to them as natural. Logic and common sense are my teachers and was the way for all my pears.

 

[Billiebob]

Many of those idiots learning from the school of hard knocks end up in a wheel chair or dead, sorry to rain on yer parade but only idiots criticize safety training.

ps to the admin...... This is not a personal attack, just a fact...... solved, I am quoting no one.

Given that the logging industry has the highest WCB rates in North America..... for guys who are employed and knowledgeable and often trained..... and to recommend training is for idiots is...... darwanism at its finest.

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

Many of those idiots learning from the school of hard knocks end up in a wheel chair or dead, sorry to rain on yer parade but only idiots criticize safety training.

ps to the admin...... This is not a personal attack, just a fact...... solved, I am quoting no one.

Given that the logging industry has the highest WCB rates in North America..... for guys who are employed and knowledgeable and often trained..... and to recommend training is for idiots is...... darwanism at its finest.

Can you read BillyBob, I started off my post with "that's a good thing" . You have an awful quick trigger condemning what others say here in the forums. Maybe you cant learn from experience but where do you think the experts learned.
I resent the insinuation that I am an idiot because I learned from the school of hard knocks. What a person learns is based on his or her ability to learn, maybe you dont have that ability but I damn sure do.

 

[Sasquatch SC]

....
Got my chair... comfortable...
Wait!!!!
Forgot my popcorn....

Okay... continue.

 

[grubworm]

use of chainsaws and hi-lift jacks get pretty heated on here...but what about using them TOGETHER?

just out of curiosity, i would like to lift a fallen tree with a hi-lift on unstable ground and then cut next to it with a chainsaw and see what happens.

 

[Billiebob]

Can you read BillyBob, I started off my post with "that's a good thing" . You have an awful quick trigger condemning what others say here in the forums. Maybe you cant learn from experience but where do you think the experts learned.
I resent the insinuation that I am an idiot because I learned from the school of hard knocks. What a person learns is based on his or her ability to learn, maybe you dont have that ability but I damn sure do.

I try to never direct my comments at any one individual.... note I never quoted anything you said.

But who was the first to use the term idiot.

And like you said, we are both saying the same thing, I'm just adding, education trumps common sense.
Especially for something as dangerous as a chainsaw.

 

[Billiebob]

use of chainsaws and hi-lift jacks get pretty heated on here

They are both primative tools, simplicity in its finest form, which can do major trauma with little warning.
Chainsaws are tools of neccessity in the logging industry and you can buy all kinds of personal protective gear and training.
HighLift Jacks have gone the other way as industry has chosen to quit using them, often banning them, rather than address the safety issues.

 

[Sasquatch SC]

chainsaws and hi-lift jacks get pretty heated on here...

just out of curiosity, i would like to lift a fallen tree with a hi-lift on un-even ground and then cut next to it with a chainsaw and see what happens.

I actually have done a version of this, but instead of the hi-lift I used my trusty ARB Bushranger X-Jack - one of those big inflatable bags that can be inflated with your exhaust. I lifted it up so I could fulcrum it up so I wouldn't have to cut from the bottom and also didn't have to worry about the root ball falling down onto the trail below. Worked like a charm.

If I had a winch I would have probably thrown that into the mix as well.

Next time the opportunity arises, I will try to remember to use a hi-lift, the x-jack, chainsaw, winch, Bubba Rope and a traditional tow strap all in conjunction just to make things more confusing. Also - I'm doing all of this from my Subaru Outback station wagon.

Then again... I could expedite the whole tree clearing process. I bought 50 lbs of tannerite at the last gun show (God Bless South Carolina). I use a ½ lbs of it in coffee cans on the 1000 yard rifle range so I can be sure of a hit without a spotter. I'm sure 5 or 10 lbs packed tight would do the trick to clear dead fall off a trail. You wanna talk about REALLY pissing off the forestry service...

 

[Offroadnutz]

They are both primative tools, simplicity in its finest form, which can do major trauma with little warning.
Chainsaws are tools of neccessity in the logging industry and you can buy all kinds of personal protective gear and training.
HighLift Jacks have gone the other way as industry has chosen to quit using them, often banning them, rather than address the safety issues.

Who is banning HiLifts? First I have heard of this....

 

[Billiebob]

Who is banning HiLifts? First I have heard of this....

No BC Government trucks carry them anymore. Several US States also have parked them in the dump.
Driven by Workers Compensation Claims. Flat out, the HiLift Jack is a dinosaur.
Too dangerous for industry to use.

 

[Defender 90 Keith]

Im a qualified tree surgeon here in the UK. Ive spent a fair whack of cash on all my qualifications and kit. You can still go into a store and buy one with no training. Ive seen work carried out by these individuals and their trail of destruction they leave behind. You only have to look at the internet to see how easy it can go wrong. Death and injury is not far away if you try to cut corners.

 

[USStrongman]

I completely get the need for GOOD education when it comes to operating a chainsaw... however, sometimes that education comes in the form of other peoples experience, over their lifetime, living with the tool on the regular? The PNW and its surroundings more than qualify. I didn't go to a formal training center put on by firefighters who follow a singular protocol for use. Learn and adapt is a strategy many here use for other equally dangerous pursuits.

I carry my Husky when I go to my cabin in NM. I clear 2-3 trees a year and dozens of branches big enough to require chainsaw breakdown. Safety first obviously (boots, gloves, eyewear, long sleeve shirt, long pants) and knowing how to read your situation will far more than not, keep you out of trouble. Reading a trees diameter, twist, taper, ground clearance, angle of departure, roll factor, total length, guesstimated weight, etc are key to being safe and reducing potential injury or tool breakage.

I cut mine into 5-10' sections based on size and diameter and then drag them off to the side with my rig and a Gear America 35k strap. I return later in the year or the following year and break them down to firewood and then haul off as needed to either my burn pile or to the cabin to split.