Cummins 4BT ISB

[flex]

I’m wanting to put a Cummins 4BT ISB in my 1996 Land Cruiser. I’ve talked to several companies and fabricators that do conversions and no one wants to do that specific conversion. They’re reason for it is, they don’t recommend that engine for the Land Cruiser. They suggest I’d put in a Cummins 2.8 or Toyota 3.8 diesel from overseas. I can agree with the Toyota Diesel engine, but not the Cummins 2.8. I’ve done a lot of reviews on that engine and I’ve found a lot of negative talk about its reliability and performance. So much that some aren’t willing to put that engine in either. So I’d like to stick with Cummins 3.9 4BT ISB.

Has anyone done that conversation or driven in a vehicle with one? If so, let me know what you think.

 

[Motohead1]

The ISB 170 is a great choice. most where rear gear in the US which I would prefer and you can always change it to a front gear setup if need be. Trans adaption is the fun part as its typically SAE3. Lastly anything can be done with enough money and as long as you have enough this swap can be done. Unless you can find an ISB for cheap the other alternatives that are common rail and modern are the Merc OM648 (2005-2006 only here in the US) or a BMW M57/N57. Both inline 6 smooth and plenty of power when tuned.

 

[smritte]

I looked at doing a diesel in mine and this is what I came up with. Drove a 4bt in a jeep. I would not have done that conversion because of the vibration and noise. Looked into the 6BT. About a half a year later killed that idea due to what it will take to convert it and watching all the issues people had with the conversions. This was not only in cruisers but I researched everything I could. next I wanted to do the factory diesel. Almost bolts right in, I don't have to worry about someones adapter, trans mod, tuning mods. Then I tried to look up parts for it. If I broke down, I'm importing. Cant grab from local part store. They were never offered in US.

Bottom line was, with me doing all the work, rebuilding the motor and trans, all the misc things, I was looking at 10-20 grand depending on which way I went.
Beside all that, you and I both have a 96. That means OBD2. Translated means it has to be inspected. Even the diesel will have to meet the requirements and the non us motor will not. 1995 and your clear. When I did this research I hadn't bought mine and was looking at the 95's just for this reason. The Cummings 2.8(?) is 50 state legal and is a stand alone system.

The last challenge you will have is this. You need to be the expert and do all your own diagnosing when something fails down the road. I have done or helped friends on over a dozen engine conversions over the years. All of them met CA smog laws. Being a tech for my whole life has taught me one thing. If I have an issue with diagnosing, I look into the factory manual for specs and procedures. On a conversion, one doesn't exist.

The last one I did was a 2004 4.3 GM V6 and 4L60E trans into an 84 Toyota PU. Rebuilt the engine, trans, fabbed a bunch of stuff and it came to almost 9 grand when done (no labor). This thing was perfect. 3 years later, I get a call and it wont pass smog. He took it to several shops, they popped the hood and made him leave. He had put the wrong plugs in it was all.

As a tech, how much time (money) are they willing to invest diagnosing something that they have no spec or diagnostic procedure for. If you are good enough to be able to do it yourself, I would suggest the Cummings because of the registration issues with the other's. I think its 8 grand? I was looking at 8-10 for an aussy motor by itself.

Good Luck with what your doing. I just ate a head gasket and am rebuilding the motor. Had to tear my eyes away from an LS2 swap....

Scott

 

[smritte]

Forgot to add. IH8MUD forum, 80's section. I think it has an FAQ on diesel and gas conversions.

Scott

 

[Motohead1]

Ahh good point yall are in Commifornia. its tuff out there and yea I wouldent dream of owning anything newer than 95 and doing a swap.

 

[Megadoomer]

Ahh good point yall are in Commifornia. its tuff out there and yea I wouldent dream of owning anything newer than 95 and doing a swap.

You must have forgotten your grade school geography classes. It's spelled "California."

 

[Hollingsworth67]

Just wondered if you made any progress on the ISB 3.9. I work for a company that does nothing but diesel conversions, (mostly Cummins, some VW tdi) and the biggest challenge with the ISB 3.9 was actually getting a tune for it, but I think we've finally solved that. The 3.9 ISB is also not a small package. I have one on the shop floor right now that we're dimensioning as a potential donor for an early Range Rover. We have used them for conversions (pictured is a 66 Ford ISB/Allison we did a year or so ago) and if the tune/turbo trans package we have now works, it's going to be a great swap. We've also used the new Cummins R2.8--(we're an installer) which to my understanding is not the same engine is the much maligned ISF2.8 and hasn't had near the issues. I'm not here to sell any one engine over another, I was just curious if you decided on an engine or were still doing some research.

 

[Pip]

Just read through this thread, I have an 85 Fj 60....it was a very clean one owner California rig with 150k on it....literally went through the whole rig...OME suspension, rebuilt transfer, front end, rear end, new H55 5 speed, new backing plates and brakes, rebuilt head ( bottom end was in great shape) I could go on but I think you get the picture. Took it out to my place in Montana and it would not get out of its own way pulling 700 lbs of drift boat and trailer. I had so much tied up in it it was either sell it or do an engine swap. I went to the LS3 Erod Chevrolet package straight from Chevrolet. Comes with everything back to the cats including FBW gas pedal...Advanced adapters makes the adapter parts to bolt right up to the H55....not one home fabricated part. Finished the install, took it to the local chevy garage, they put it on the computer and ok’d the install.....5 year 50 thousand mile warranty....ever any issues you go to the Chevrolet dealer they plug it in and assess. I changed the tank out to a 38 gal with the correct fuel pump and other items that needed for the complete install.....17k including labor ( I did not do the swap) 430 horse coupled up to the H55 and it drives very civilized but has power when you need it.

 

[Dilldog]

So heres my take, being a diesel mechanic. Steer clear of the ISBs for swap stock, they will be rear gear train and electronically controlled common rail fuel injection, and many will be after treatment engines that will require custom ECM tuning that isnt cheap and will make any legit Cummins shop legally unable to work on the engine. My advice for a swap is to find an old school 4BT. They are a dime a dozen and can be had with GM bell housing adapters (I have a B series GM bell housing and TH400 TC adapter in my shop if you are serious, drop me a line). The primary reason for staying old school is simply to make the conversion easier. The mechanical pump is far more tuneable and more rugged (so long as you keep lift pump pressure good) than the common rail pumps. And finally the old school Bs having a front gear train will be physically easier to fit into the body. Then finally there is parts and service availability. The mechanical Bs were run in a huge variety of equipment since the 80s. Meaning if you have an issue nearly any agricultural or truck shop will have good parts availability and experienced techs. Not always the case with the ISBs (hell even when I have had to work on ISBs even our Cummins dealer has had to order parts, mean while with my old 6BT parts are on the shelf).
But all that aside have you looked at just building a really sold economy minded small block chevy? Its not hard to get 18mpg out of em in full sized rigs and even if you build an SBC from the ground up it will cost about as much as just buying a 4BT, wich may need more work to be made reliable. Then you will have unlimited tunablity and parts availability. And theres always the fact that some really out of the way places dont have diesel pumps, and if you have to run on crap fuel you can just back the timing off and run with no lasting issues. Granted a well set up 4BT will get better millage, but in the long run you will be money ahead with a well researched and built gas engine drive train. Not to mention things will be much lighter resulting in less wear and tear.

 

[Evguy1]

I have been driving my 2008 dodge Dakota with an ISB170 for the last 7 years. It has pulled our 5th wheel all over North America with never a single hiccup.
I love this engine and am now installing one into a 2014 RAM1500.
Just wanted to let people know that this is a great swap engine with a bit of work.