Could taking a shower or washing a pan make you an outlaw?!?

BCMoto said:
@Dseck63
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I leave my spots cleaner than I find them. Rarely do I shower at camp either. This is the first im hearing about this here too but other than trying to strain my food I don't know what to do.

We have to piss outdoors too and I dont see how food particles can be any worse than urine. I'll deal with the situation if it ever occurs I suppose.
 
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Use natural camp soaps, and not by a river or lake, or whatever the instructions say. There are soaps safe for running rivers.

The AT has a few lakes that aren't for bathing and rangers are known to be a problem. If they aren't marked properly, then that's too bad.
 
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Here is copy from the soap I use when we camp. I am guessing these guidelines are from a reputable source and not made up by their marketing team?
Keep away from water sources
Bury in 6-8" cat hole

www.rei.com

Sea to Summit Wilderness Wash Soap - 3 fl. oz. | REI Co-op

Biodegradable Sea To Summit Wilderness Wash soap is gentle on fabrics and skin but effective on dirty dishes and laundry stains. Plus, just a little goes a long, long way.
www.rei.com www.rei.com

Sea to Summit
Sea to Summit Wilderness Wash Soap - 3 fl. oz.
$4.95

Features
  • Wilderness Wash is biodegradable, phosphate free and pH neutral
  • Use sparingly; concentrated formula requires only 1 capful for an average shower, and always follow Leave No Trace guidelines and wash at least 300 ft. from waterways
  • Leave No Trace: Even biodegradable soaps and cleansers shouldn't be used in a natural water source. To wash yourself, your laundry or your dishes, carry water 200 feet away from streams or lakes and use small amounts of biodegradable soap (a little goes a long way). Then pour wastewater into a cat hole 6 to 8 inches deep.
 
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USStrongman said:
Here is copy from the soap I use when we camp. I am guessing these guidelines are from a reputable source and not made up by their marketing team?
Keep away from water sources
Bury in 6-8" cat hole

www.rei.com

Sea to Summit Wilderness Wash Soap - 3 fl. oz. | REI Co-op

Biodegradable Sea To Summit Wilderness Wash soap is gentle on fabrics and skin but effective on dirty dishes and laundry stains. Plus, just a little goes a long, long way.
www.rei.com www.rei.com

Sea to Summit
Sea to Summit Wilderness Wash Soap - 3 fl. oz.
$4.95

Features
  • Wilderness Wash is biodegradable, phosphate free and pH neutral
  • Use sparingly; concentrated formula requires only 1 capful for an average shower, and always follow Leave No Trace guidelines and wash at least 300 ft. from waterways
  • Leave No Trace: Even biodegradable soaps and cleansers shouldn't be used in a natural water source. To wash yourself, your laundry or your dishes, carry water 200 feet away from streams or lakes and use small amounts of biodegradable soap (a little goes a long way). Then pour wastewater into a cat hole 6 to 8 inches deep.
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Sea to Summit has good products maybe high but again you get what you pay for
 
funny, this is from an indonesian publication....kinda looks like government is the same all over

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I find it true and funny, the polluters pay thats why they dont get bothered
 
My experience with this is a bit different than what people have posted. I have not been cited but, I have friends that have been cited and I have watched people in my camping areas be cited. I cant say if its, county, state or federal. I have spoken with a number of BLM rangers over the years and the answer has always been the same, if we see you dumping or we see where you dumped (hose on the ground and it looks like water flowed) we will ticket you. I have been told the same applies to national forest and national parks but have never talked to the rangers there.
The vehicles I have seen targeted are motor homes and campers. My M-100 and RTT have never been in "common" camping areas where they inspect.
What I did with my camper was, find a camping spot near a large bush. Drain into the center and put the hose away.
I can see why its illegal. I've watched people dump black water onto the ground and have the argument of its biodegradable.
I don't want this to turn into a rant. I'm just sharing my experience.
 
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smritte said:
My experience with this is a bit different than what people have posted. I have not been cited but, I have friends that have been cited and I have watched people in my camping areas be cited. I cant say if its, county, state or federal. I have spoken with a number of BLM rangers over the years and the answer has always been the same, if we see you dumping or we see where you dumped (hose on the ground and it looks like water flowed) we will ticket you. I have been told the same applies to national forest and national parks but have never talked to the rangers there.
The vehicles I have seen targeted are motor homes and campers. My M-100 and RTT have never been in "common" camping areas where they inspect.
What I did with my camper was, find a camping spot near a large bush. Drain into the center and put the hose away.
I can see why its illegal. I've watched people dump black water onto the ground and have the argument of its biodegradable.
I don't want this to turn into a rant. I'm just sharing my experience.
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I posted earlier we need a venting thread.
 
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The simple answer is if someone said it is 100% illegal, they are 100% wrong. Legality varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The responsible thing to do is to check with the authorities for that location and find out the rules. Your best bet is to have a grey water tank and a cassette or kitty litter toilet... In the absence of suitable equipment, or regulation, your next best bet is to be responsible in how you dispose of your waste. Biodegradable cleaners, not near bodies of water, burn it bury it or pack it out, etc. In the end you are the one responsible for your actions, but your actions will reflect on everyone.
 
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Thats a gross exaggeration.
Can you get in trouble for discharging un treated waste into a body of water? Yup you can. But simply showering and letting the water drain onto the ground, nope.
Just show some respect by using biodegradable and natural soaps and showering, doing dishes, etc. at least 100 feet from water ways. Honestly the biggest problem would be putting soaps with phosphates directly into a body of water as enough phosphates will encourage toxic algae to grow.
 
Dilldog said:
Can you get in trouble for discharging un treated waste into a body of water? Yup you can. But simply showering and letting the water drain onto the ground, nope.
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Come out here and be cited for it. Exaggeration? Here its not. This is not a recent thing here. Do they have drones flying around? No. Do the BLM rangers cruise by groups of motor homes? Yes. Is it a law? One would think so if people are cited. Have I ever been bothered for my out door shower? Never. Have I had my camper looked at by BLM? Yes. This was all on BLM land, not state park or national forest.
Changing the subject slightly but, staying close. One of the state areas here, the ranger fly's a pattern over the desert (at night), marking camp fires. In the early morning several of them go to the camp sites (before you wake up) and look to see if the fire was above the ground. The requirement is it has to be in a metal fire pit.
 
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smritte said:
Come out here and be cited for it. Exaggeration? Here its not. This is not a recent thing here. Do they have drones flying around? No. Do the BLM rangers cruise by groups of motor homes? Yes. Is it a law? One would think so if people are cited. Have I ever been bothered for my out door shower? Never. Have I had my camper looked at by BLM? Yes. This was all on BLM land, not state park or national forest.
Changing the subject slightly but, staying close. One of the state areas here, the ranger fly's a pattern over the desert (at night), marking camp fires. In the early morning several of them go to the camp sites (before you wake up) and look to see if the fire was above the ground. The requirement is it has to be in a metal fire pit.
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Remember you are in California... nothing is the same for California and the rest of the United States... heck you can barely go adventuring in California. I was 6 years old playing with a stick and string in the King’s River when my dad was sited for not having a fishing license because I had a stick and a string... no hook, no bait.... I was just trying to catch my stick boat and bring it back to shore... Now here in Oregon... doing the same thing at a state park, the ranger came over with his fishing pole and helped me get my boat back (and fishing wasn’t allowed in this park at that time because of salmon spawning season). My point is... Kalifornia is a joke when it comes to its laws... as Dillion said, most places aren’t going to care as long as you are 200 fee (preferably more) away from a natural water source.
 
I was told I have been to Redwood but I was so young I don't remember and I would like to go now but not sure how to deal with some of California's law or people. Maybe it's not as bad as I think.
 
I agree, the politics suck here. My point was, you cant put a blanket yes or no on anything. You also cant say will never happen just because it never happened to you. I have never been cited because i'm careful. I am also aware of just because you don't get cited, doesn't make it legal.
A good example of this is motor vehicle laws. I would bet, most of the people on this forum have federally illegal vehicles. Everything I own is. The state can choose whether or not to enforce them. Point here is, just because I have never been cited for my Beadlocks on the street in California does not make them legal. Some states I would have my vehicle impounded for it. Here they are (or were 10 years ago) considered multi piece rims. Multi piece rims are not illegal here. Some states have an ordinance specifically stating beadlock.

Again, my point was, none of the posts here were exaggerated and just because someones been doing it for years, doesn't make it legal no matter what soap you use. That is what most people don't understand and I believe that is what the OP asked in the beginning.
I make it a point to find these things out in the areas I go. This is why I don't have problems. I also make it a point when I go anywhere for the first time to stop at a ranger station and ask.
 
smritte said:
Come out here and be cited for it. Exaggeration? Here its not. This is not a recent thing here. Do they have drones flying around? No. Do the BLM rangers cruise by groups of motor homes? Yes. Is it a law? One would think so if people are cited. Have I ever been bothered for my out door shower? Never. Have I had my camper looked at by BLM? Yes. This was all on BLM land, not state park or national forest.
Changing the subject slightly but, staying close. One of the state areas here, the ranger fly's a pattern over the desert (at night), marking camp fires. In the early morning several of them go to the camp sites (before you wake up) and look to see if the fire was above the ground. The requirement is it has to be in a metal fire pit.
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I would be interested in reading the regs for California parks and such. I knew they were more strict (and honestly for good reason most of the time), my comments were based off of what regs are up here, and what I know of hydro science. I suppose I should know better...
 
To my knowledge, there is differentiation between dumping grey water and dumping a grey water tank. Many jurisdictions have regulations against dumping a grey water tank from a vehicle or trailer becuase they are capable of dumping so much in a single spot; I have never seen any regulation that outlaws dumping from something like a wash basin nor have I ever been hassled for it in years of camping. Otherwise even washing hands after handling fish or something and letting that water hit the ground would be against that regulation.

Could be wrong, that's just my take. IMO just use biodegradable soap and if you feel obligated, dig a small hole before dumping the water so there's not a puddle on the surface.
 
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