Buddy Heater suspected as cause of death

old_man said:
Once owned by Donald Trump.
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How does a discussion on a heater turn into something political? There are accurate news stories, inaccurate news stories, and opinion pieces. The original was inaccurate. So what, if you question its accuracy read more. In this case the answer is easy. Read the product manual. If any article bothers you write to the editor and ask them to correct it. If I was the social media person for Mr Heater I would do exactly that.
 
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Everything the media does is political.

If nothing else, companies are evil, and those who use their products are either victims or are willfully harming the garden of Eden. If the media praises something you can bet they are on the take.
 
1Louder said:
How does a discussion on a heater turn into something political? There are accurate news stories, inaccurate news stories, and opinion pieces. The original was inaccurate. So what, if you question its accuracy read more. In this case the answer is easy. Read the product manual. If any article bothers you write to the editor and ask them to correct it. If I was the social media person for Mr Heater I would do exactly that.
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I'm rarely on Overland Bound any more because of all the anti-California (it's not a "K") stuff that randomly pops up in threads that should be apolitical. Like every state California has its problems, but it is a great place to explore, with lots of dispersed camping, BLM, State, Federal, and county parks. If you are on the left or right politically, keep to the topic - there are plenty of forums where you can visit to trash those with opposing views. I liked Overland Bound back when I joined, but now I ignore it and go to Expedition Portal instead.
 
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I purchased one last year. Follow the instructions and be aware of the dangers. The warnings are there for a reason.
So far its been a great asset to my outdoor experience.
 
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smritte said:
I've been using my Lil Buddy heater in my RTT for years. I hang it from the roof near the door so I cant kick it over. The venting on my tent gives me a nice bit of airflow. I chose this one because of the lack of CO2. I don't sleep with it on. I open my blankets, turn it on for a bit before I go to bed. Turn it off once it warms back up after I climb in, maybe read for a few, then turn it off. In the morning, sneak over, turn it on then cover back up. If I go back to sleep it's only 20-30 mins.

I didn't bother reading the article. It's going to read like the others I read while researching a tent heater. If what everyone says is true, the reporter grabbed a random heater picture and applied it to his story. Why would he not find out the brand of heater and use that? Because he just probably got the report from the M.E. and filled the rest in. Too much work to write an accurate story. As long as he writes about death and destruction and is able to point at a villain (even if its the wrong one) his job is done. What harm can come from reporting wrong? No one is hurt.
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Coroner said it was carbon monoxide that killed them and it was a Mr Buddy heater.
 
DrivingTacoLoco said:
Coroner said it was carbon monoxide that killed them and it was a Mr Buddy heater.
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Holy Crap!!!!

My new trailer build will have a forced air diesel heater. Some people have made them portable and blow the air into the RTT. Considering I'm going to have a small hard side trailer and keep my RTT on my other trailer, I may look that way. Keep the heater as a portable unit between both.
 
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About 45 mins of research and carefully reading the linked article. Here's what I learned.

1. Propane can emit CO. The CO comes from incompletely burning the fuel.
2. The "Buddy" series of heaters have an oxygen sensor to detect lack of oxygen (CO will displace oxygen)
3. The person who died of CO poisoning somehow rigged the heater to cook a roast.
Assuming the picture in the article was the correct heater used, it would have the safety features. The Catalytic element on the front is designed to ensure a complete burn.
I would be nice to see the actual heater. Without that all one can do is guess. As I see it the problem was 2 fold. The O2 sensor failed to shut the unit off and the heater was not burning all the fuel being fed into the element. Why? We can only speculate.
As for me, I'm moving forward with a bit more caution and going to a different style of heater. I did read a bunch on people using them in small enclosed areas for long periods of time without issue (whole bunch on ice fishing huts and igloo's).
 
DrivingTacoLoco said:
Coroner said it was carbon monoxide that killed them and it was a Mr Buddy heater.
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.

Coroner Leach was quoted in one article saying it was a parabolic heater and vaguely quoted in another saying it was a Mr Buddy Heater and that article showed a Mr Heater being used outside in the snow to cook canned food, not a roast inside the van as was being done when the man died. So who knows.

.
 
PNW EXPLR said:
I agree that carbon monoxide detector really should be used.

The problem is that in a vehicle the vented window is most likely above the sleeping space. Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air and will collect in the low spaces and fill up. Unless there is substantial air flow in the space, the vent my do no good.

This is why having a CO detector near the floor is important.

Maybe is had something to do with the roast. I wonder if he was using the heater like a BBQ ?
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It is a common misconception that CO is heavier than air. It is actually slightly lighter (3%) but it is so close it should be considered neutral density in air. The best place to put a CO detector is near the level you will be sleeping at. Preferably between the sleeping and the possible CO source. Never in a corner or near an opening to the outside.
 
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Misconception probably is on account of folks not being able to keep CO and CO2 straight. CO2 is heavier than air. CO2 won't poison you that same way CO will, but CO2 can kill you by displacing the air you need in a low place. The "Dog Grotto" is an example of this.
 
I still think I am going to buy one. I think it will be a nice addition to my awning room and as long as I leave something open slightly to let some fresh air in and exhaust fumes out, I am sure I will be fine. It sounds like this guy modified his heater somehow and perhaps caused his own unfortunate demise. These heaters have been around for decades now and just like anything else you need to use them as they were intended. Zippo lighters aren't for roasting turkeys.
 
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Stupidity is the killer, not CO, not CO2, not hypoxia...stupidity.
 
I have a Buddy heater and have been using it for about a year in our tent. Its an 8 Person tent since we are a family of 5 but it works pretty good. Warms up the tent pretty quick and keeps it warm all night. I do worry about the CO poisoning but usually since the tent has a flap up top which is like a ventilation flap I don't usually open another vent or window on the tent. I have thought of getting a CO detector just in case but I haven't really had any complaints about any smells or it getting to how even on the surfaces you mount them to. Usually I just set it on the floor, the case itself doesn't get hot only the area near the front where the heat is emitted. I know they have sensors and its even happened to us moving it that with the slightest shift the gas feed shuts off to keep the heater from staying on in the event of a tip over and causing a fire. I definitely have been thinking about how to make it work with a roof top tent since I just recently got one for the rig. Ive heard some put the annex and heat the tent from the bottom but not sure if I can add an Annex to ours so I have been considering ways to heat the tent or how to hand the heater safely from the RTT.
 
Anak said:
Misconception probably is on account of folks not being able to keep CO and CO2 straight. CO2 is heavier than air. CO2 won't poison you that same way CO will, but CO2 can kill you by displacing the air you need in a low place. The "Dog Grotto" is an example of this.
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I agree. More confusion happens when you throw gas monitors into the mix. Many people buy an all in one monitor. Propane gas is heavier than air and will collect near the ground. Natural gas is 40x lighter than air and will collect at the ceiling. Seldom are NG and propane used in tandem so that makes it easier. At home, I have Nest Protect fire alarms that monitor for CO, heat and smoke. Since I have propane at home I have gas monitors near the floor in a few areas.

BTW - It is not just CO2 causing air displacement (asphyxiation) that is a problem. CO2 is also a toxicant over 10% and can be deadly. Above 30% and you only have seconds before losing consciousness. I think of this every time I transport a welding or beer CO2 tank in my truck or jeep. I still do it on occasion but I do think about it.
 
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Well, perhaps a thank you is necessary to whomever started this thread. It seems I became a bit... intrigued by the possibility of a hot tent instead of just a good sleeping bag. Anyway, I went out and bought myself a buddy heater, a 10 foot hose, a 5 pound propane tank and a bracket to mount it to my jeep's rack. I also dug around in the shed and found my 50 year old 5000 btu Coleman catalytic heater and a gallon of fuel. Wouldn't you know it the old Coleman still works just fine. Think I'll use the buddy heater on the road, since I can also use the fuel to cook and then keep the Coleman for the shed. What a great idea. Just sorry some guy had to end up dead, I still need to pick up a CO detector, couldn't find one with a display.
 
PNW EXPLR said:
I agree that carbon monoxide detector really should be used.

The problem is that in a vehicle the vented window is most likely above the sleeping space. Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air and will collect in the low spaces and fill up. Unless there is substantial air flow in the space, the vent my do no good.

This is why having a CO detector near the floor is important.

Maybe is had something to do with the roast. I wonder if he was using the heater like a BBQ ?
Click to expand...

CO is slightly lighter than air not heavier. But it tends to diffuse evenly throughout a compartment.

And yes the Buddy heaters will produce some CO. When I run it in my Jeep my CO monitor shows about a 10ppm reading after 15 minutes of use and it seems to level out there.

That being said I don't run it while I sleep. Long enough to warm up then shut it down and get back in my bag (I use my Jeep as a big metal tent haha).
 
Herd is the whole story that I received this mornjng

www.rvtravel.com

New details shed light on "Mr. Heater" death - RV Travel

By Russ and Tiña De Maris The tragic story of a Kennewick, Washington, man, David Dana, who lost his life in early December due to carbon monoxide poisoning, drew plenty of attention from our readers. Last week we posted a piece regarding Dana’s death, and since have had plenty of feedback. In...
www.rvtravel.com www.rvtravel.com
 
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Not a buddy heater
Heavily modified
Safety features disabled
Was being used to cook
 
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