Brakes

[MOAK]

Ok, I’ve been dragging trailers for 50 years. A lot with electric brakes decades ago, then trailers with air brakes.. last winter I installed brakes on my expedition trailer. I was smitten with the Echo controller. Download the app on your dash mounted phone, plug the controller and then plug the trailer into the controller. After over 10,000 miles and multiple trailer brake adjustments I either have full on brakes locking one or both wheels up at 10 &1, on asphalt no less, or nothing at 5 & 1. What am I doing wrong?

 

[OTH Overland]

Is there a setting for size or weight of the trailer somewhere? The controller in my RAM lets me select light/med/heavy for trailer then has a separate control for brake level for fine tuning, if I switch to my little utility trailer and leave the setting on heavy from the dump trailer no matter where i set the knob from 1 to 10 it still biases that high base on expected weight and the tires skid all over until setting 1 then they do not work at all..lol

 

[tjZ06]

Ok, I’ve been dragging trailers for 50 years. A lot with electric brakes decades ago, then trailers with air brakes.. last winter I installed brakes on my expedition trailer. I was smitten with the Echo controller. Download the app on your dash mounted phone, plug the controller and then plug the trailer into the controller. After over 10,000 miles and multiple trailer brake adjustments I either have full on brakes locking one or both wheels up at 10 &1, on asphalt no less, or nothing at 5 & 1. What am I doing wrong?

I had no luck with the Echo with my adventure trailer behind the WJ. Same symptoms you have. I put a Prodigy in the WJ and instantly it was all better. On very loose surfaces offroad it'd still lock a tire occasionally a bit earlier than I expected, but once I hit dirt I usually turned the gain way down since it's not like you're stopping from 70 MPH in the dirt with a trailer (I hope, lol). But even that "trick" didn't work w/ the Echo.

-TJ

 

[smritte]

Dumb question but, have you made sure nothing is wrong with your brakes mechanically? The controllers vary the voltage with battery (12V) being max. With everything plugged in, see if you have a voltage change from high to low. Then tear down the brakes and make sure nothing odd is happening.
When I diagnose, I prove what is not broken and see what's left.

 

[Brian Forrester]

Obviously make sure it is stable since it has g sensors in it, assuming you already know that. Also make sure your trailer and vehicle both supply a good low resistance ground to the plug. Many trailers ground through the hitch contact and this can be problematic.

 

[MOAK]

Dumb question but, have you made sure nothing is wrong with your brakes mechanically? The controllers vary the voltage with battery (12V) being max. With everything plugged in, see if you have a voltage change from high to low. Then tear down the brakes and make sure nothing odd is happening.
When I diagnose, I prove what is not broken and see what's left.

The controller is working perfectly, as I increase the gain my test light gets brighter accordingly. I’ve adjusted the brakes a multitude of times. However, the shop I purchased the brakes from has suggested that I back off more than 3-5 notches. He said they should be loose. Seems to me they would grab even more that way. The darn things worked perfectly for the first 2,000 miles or so. Then whammo.

 

[Brian Forrester]

Did you wire the brake solenoid's in parallel? I've had issues in the past with factory wiring in series applying the brakes harder on one side. Have you been able to use another vehicle to make sure it's not the trailer?

 

[MOAK]

You lost me with solenoids, they are magnetic . my hitch is incompatible with most vehicles. The controller tested as being good at the power of 5 very dim, all the way up to 100 very bright. the intensity of the test lamp correlated with the values

 

[smritte]

I'm still bothered with the fact you can lock up the tires on the street (unless I misunderstood). With the oversized tires having a large footprint, it shouldn't be that easy.
If your getting even hard braking with low voltage, somethings jamming. You confirmed the voltage change, all that's left is mechanical.
Was the issue there, before you changed brakes? The only thing both sides have in common is the brake job if the issue wasn't there before.

 

[smritte]

Rereading your post, has this issue been there the whole time you had the controller hooked up? I'm asking because on my last trailer build, Dexter built the axle upside down. My brakes were backwards. I had to flip the backing plates and switch sides.

 

[MOAK]

No, these brakes are new to the trailer. . everything worked to perfection for the first 1500 to 2,000 miles. It has to be mechanical. Does it make any sense to back them off further than normal? It is happening at slow speeds, braking is quite normal till I’m down below 15- mph, then they lock up. Which side locking varies with the surface and weight shifting of the chassis

 

[smritte]

All I can say is try it. I cant think of anything electrical at this point. The circuit is stupid simple.
I'm assuming its a 3500# axle. I have one on my M-100 weighing in at 900# with 12.5" wide tire's and my teardrop at 2k with 7.5" wide tires, neither can lock up on pavement with the controllers all the way up. Off-Road my controllers are almost at zero. I adjust my brakes like a vehicle, about .020 clearance.
Don't rule out you brain farted something on the assembly. Inspect carefully and compare to a picture. I catch myself this way sometimes.

 

[Brian Forrester]

Technically an electromagnet, either way make sure they are wired in parallel. Too many get wired in series, not only is it dangerous, it also leaves one magnet with less power. I would ohm them out and double check the configuration as well, short shoe and arm in front. Just because they are new doesn't mean a part hasn't failed and if they are backwards it might not show up until they wear in, say 1,500 miles or so. It takes a while for the magnets to wear the drum face and get a consistent pull.

There should be an ever so slight drag when adjusted. Loosening them won't change how hard that magnet pulls with the drum rotation, it just makes the arm travel farther. If everything is working right, they'll tighten back up anyhow.

 

[MOAK]

This weekend I’m going to pull all apart. One thing I did wrong? I grounded each one to the frame of the trailer. I’ll start there and continue Sherlocking

 

[smritte]

I ground mine to the trailer with a shake washer. If you had a ground issue, they wouldn't grab, or would only grab the side with a good ground.. Make sure you print out a picture of what its suppose to look like. Its real easy to miss something easy. Ask me how I know this.

 

[Brian Forrester]

They should ground to the frame, star washers help like smritte mentioned. Make sure your ground from the frame to the trailer plug and plug to vehicle frame have good low resistance connections, most electrical issues are from bad grounds. I recently used a redarc controller on a dodge that I had a hell of a time getting to work consistently. Turned out the factory plug on the truck didn't have a ground, but depended on the trailer grounding through the hitch. Adding a ground from the factory plug to the truck frame cured all the problems.

Just don't forget to look at the mechanical components too. Let us know what you find.

 

[smritte]

but depended on the trailer grounding through the hitch

That's just dumb. Its worse when the factory does it. Unfortunately, someone will argue "If the factory did it that way, its for a reason".

 

[MOAK]

I deserve to be silenced, sent to the corner to sit in the wastebasket with the dunce cap on. Lol So, first thing I did was re- inspect my installation, check for damage & check the shoes for grease, etc. everything looked good . Then? I called up Lebanon Trailer and spoke with Nelson. He tested the echo with his tester- all good. Then he got into the app on my phone- There is a toggle that says; Vehicle Hazard Lights / on-off. Logically in my rather simple mindedness off course I want my hazard lights ON.. wrong. What it means is, do you want the brakes to apply when the hazard lights pulse on & off? Of course not. I can’t think of a single example why any one would want trailer brakes to be going on and off in harmony with the four ways. So why does the toggle even exist? Nelson turned the toggle off, set the settings at 10 / 3 and off we go. What the toggle has to do with general operation is beyond me, but Nelson reflected on how this new technology can easily be confused as well as confusing. Problem solved. Thanks for everyone’s input. My leaning curve with this new stuff is complete. Really though, it was all really easy with a control knob, a trolly brake and a pendulum.

 

[smritte]

UGH

 

[Brian Forrester]

UGH

I concur