Banning Boondocking?

[ThundahBeagle]

Read this and wondered if anyone knew anything about it?

RV Park Owners Lobby to Abolish Boondocking | Drivin' & Vibin'

RV Park Owners Lobby to Abolish Boondocking It’s a tale as old as time. Business owners lobby governments to help increase their bottom line. This time RV park owners are trying to abolish free camping. It’s happening in New Zealand. And it may be on it’s way to the USA. American RV park owners...

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[ThundahBeagle]

I would hope that if those RV park owners could band together and generate that type of lobbying, that hikers, campers, overlanders outnumber them vastly and can somehow band together and generate our own clout!

 

[Deleted member 59857]

Not surprising. There have been many battles and if you are concerned with land closures, please join

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www.sharetrails.org

The blue ribbon coalition has been around for awhile. The only way to fight lobbyists, is to lobby against it.
Just the way our gov works.

Camp Free! - Join the Dispersed Camping Access Alliance to Protect Dispersed Camping

The BlueRibbon Coalition has been protecting recreation access for all recreationists since 1987. As times have changed our focus has concentrated on off-road recreation, over-snow recreation, personal watercraft, and most recently UTVs. We see it as our job to anticipate what's coming next. Even th

www.sharetrails.org

What's not helping is the huge growth of dispersed campers that literally turn the backcountry into a garbage can.
Hard to defend public use when the public treats our land like a 5 yr old in a portapotty.

Mountain bikers share the same issues.

 

[Berkshires]

I read that article yesterday and there wasn't much there. The NZ free camping had opposition coming from a number of places, not just the RV Park owners. The title is a bit misleading, the authors said very little about what was going on in the US, just some chatter on RV Park owner forums. I'd like to know if this is a real movement in the US or just a click-bait article.

 

[MidOH]

Private RV parks are filled to capacity with old trailers with less than 1000 miles on them. I doubt that they care.

Heck, many Private parks only allow travelers with trailers less than 8 years old. It keeps the hill folk and overlanders away. Slide in campers with a trailer of motorcycles? Banned for life.

State Parks could use some more business. If the fun police will allow it. The State campgrounds with horse trailer camping areas are more fun than ever. Tons of people enjoying that every summer here. That used to be rare, now there's hundreds of them.

 

[Billiebob]

What's not helping is the huge growth of dispersed campers that literally turn the backcountry into a garbage can.
Hard to defend public use when the public treats our land like a 5 yr old in a portapotty.

Mountain bikers share the same issues.

This ^^^^ I'd say everyone on this website is a responsible, tread lightly camper. But even if we are the majority it only takes a few who leave sites worse than they arrived to raise the community in a movement to ban "boondocking". In a populated area this might include all land within a hundred miles. In rural lightly populated areas, like where I live, it mostly involves the immediate municipal lands but even here we often have travellers from other provinces who take over our lake shore. Even if they are campers who tread lightly and leave the sites clean, they are still blocking the use by locals who want to picnic on the same beach. After last summer with a massive influx of campers from Alberta thanks to COVID, there is a lot of talk about gating the beaches and not allowing overnight camping.

The movement by the RV Camp Grounds is only a tiny portion of the movement to ban boondockers. But I differentiate between campers parking for a few days and boondockers who often live full time in the RV with no home base and they are not camping, they are aquatting on public lands for weeks or months at a time. There is a difference between an overlander constantly on the move and a "freeman" who believes he is above the law. But most people won't see a difference and if they ever experience the arogance of a freeman they lump anyone they perceive to be squatting on public land in the same group. And they will lobby their municipality to block camping on public lands. And they will win, no outside lobby group will have much impact.

In BC, public lands are all subject to a 14 day limit in one spot. It is seldom enforced and mostly only enforced after a local resident complains. But I'm of the impression the campers on this forum are more transient, not looking for a free spot to live, rather wanting to explore and camp in multiple sites on any one trip.

We have several private and municipal campgrounds within 30 miles, I expect they will be backing the local movement to gate open public beaches and ban "overnite parking" and it will be driven by outsiders taking over those beaches. And you can bet enforcement will be selective ignoring locals but tagging outsiders.

Every year a few more of these signs go up.

 

[Deleted member 59857]

It's not a small amount messing up the land. It's a large amount of campers literally demolishing dispersed camping areas.
Covid really pushed this drive to all the "overlanding" and camping. There are a lot of them out there destroying areas, week in, week out.
Areas I usually went for years are now unusable or overcrowded.

As for closing down dispersed camping, yes there are active lobbyists and groups fighting to close off and limit dispersed camping.
As with many trails and blm land, they fight those one trail at a time and get things shut down.
It's important to keep our access.

 

[J.W.]

Most boondockers are pretty low profile. They don’t want to call attention to themselves.

The real problem is sheer volume. Even if everyone treads lightly, there are so many people treading that it has a serious impact. I remember camping in the 80s and 90s when I would head out and not see another person for days at a time, sometimes weeks. Now, everywhere I go is filled to capacity and some places are overflowing. Part of me loves the fact that ”Overlanding” has come en vogue and people are finding amazing places to explore. The. Rest of me wants the popularity of overlanding to pass so I can have these places to myself again.

Can we all start promoting sailing? Or even better, isn’t it about time that rollerskating rinks make a comeback?

 

[Murphy Slaw]

This stuff is usually best solved locally.

However, the incoming Gub'ment is more about Federal mandates.

It'll be interesting to watch, if nothing else...

 

[Lanlubber In Remembrance]

I would hope that if those RV park owners could band together and generate that type of lobbying, that hikers, campers, overlanders outnumber them vastly and can somehow band together and generate our own clout!

OB members alone number in excess of 25K. OB has my permission to use my name !

 

[Tundracamper]

Leave it to the gov’t to ruin another form of recreation. They’ll mandate only camping in a tent or newer model RV in a designated campsite only. Plus, the environmentalist would love to close the nat’l forests.

I camp in the SE and just got back from a NF trip in AR. Three days camping and I saw one dispersed campsite occupied. ALL the others were empty. If people wouldn’t be such fair-weather campers and only be willing to drive 30 minutes (like from the west coast!) to go to the big-name parks, this topic wouldn’t be a problem. It’s like the big city folks whining about overcrowding - they’ve never seen the country from an airplane.

 

[GoliathF350]

I read that article yesterday and there wasn't much there. The NZ free camping had opposition coming from a number of places, not just the RV Park owners. The title is a bit misleading, the authors said very little about what was going on in the US, just some chatter on RV Park owner forums. I'd like to know if this is a real movement in the US or just a click-bait article.

i read the same not much happening here in the US it's mainly in other countries

 

[bgenlvtex]

The government corrupts and destroys everything it touches.

People eager for more governments re usually just too lazy to do their own stealing,so they attempt to elect the "government" they believe will give them the most of somebody else money.

RV Park owners should be cautious not to start a fight they are not prepared to finish. Many of them skirt environmental regulation that they would be wise not to draw attention to. Local electrical, building, water shed codes. They will find themselves vivtimized by the same government they want to do their bidding.

 

[Downs]

I read that article yesterday and there wasn't much there. The NZ free camping had opposition coming from a number of places, not just the RV Park owners. The title is a bit misleading, the authors said very little about what was going on in the US, just some chatter on RV Park owner forums. I'd like to know if this is a real movement in the US or just a click-bait article.

It's good to have a heads up but the article read as more of a fear mongering piece to get people to join whatever lobbying organization they rep for 50 dollars a year.

 

[Downs]

Leave it to the gov’t to ruin another form of recreation. They’ll mandate only camping in a tent or newer model RV in a designated campsite only. Plus, the environmentalist would love to close the nat’l forests.

I camp in the SE and just got back from a NF trip in AR. Three days camping and I saw one dispersed campsite occupied. ALL the others were empty. If people wouldn’t be such fair-weather campers and only be willing to drive 30 minutes (like from the west coast!) to go to the big-name parks, this topic wouldn’t be a problem. It’s like the big city folks whining about overcrowding - they’ve never seen the country from an airplane.

I've had that experience up there as well. The Ouchitas are a fairly well kept secret at this point. Seems like most of the traffic is pretty close to major highways with SxS and ATVs staying closeish to the majory highways like 259 running north out of Broken Bow and the areas around Mena, Ar. Once you get a little ways off the highways the recreational population is a lot less dense and there's more dispersed camping spots than you can swing a dead cat at.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Leave it to the gov’t to ruin another form of recreation. They’ll mandate only camping in a tent or newer model RV in a designated campsite only. Plus, the environmentalist would love to close the nat’l forests.

I camp in the SE and just got back from a NF trip in AR. Three days camping and I saw one dispersed campsite occupied. ALL the others were empty. If people wouldn’t be such fair-weather campers and only be willing to drive 30 minutes (like from the west coast!) to go to the big-name parks, this topic wouldn’t be a problem. It’s like the big city folks whining about overcrowding - they’ve never seen the country from an airplane.

Funny, your first paragraph. I was family car camping with a friend's family this past summer. Two separate sites on the same grounds, right near each other. We usually have 4 couples and all the kids on 3 or 4 sites.

Anyway I wanted to sort of dry run sleeping in the bed of mypickup, under the Leer 180 camper shell. The park ranger came by and said that because it didnt have a tent up, it was considered day use. I had to show him the sleeping bag and gear in the bed before he decided to leave it alone.

I suppose we can start looking for any lax rules to be enforced more and more

 

[smritte]

I've watched, listened and participated in discussions like this for years. For me it was off-roading and land closures. We would clean up the litter and fix the damage on our adapt a trail then sit in groups discussing this at conventions or camping. Look what happened when they started shutting down. Everyone went camping. Even before that, there was a government shut down and groups of idiots went to national parks and did whatever they wanted. Meanwhile people talk about it on forums.
The problem isn't the minority that trashes everything, the problem is the media publishing articles about the "careless off-roaders". The public (not us) thinks now, everyone with a 4wd just crashed through the forest, dug deep trench's in the meadow and ran over Bambi. The next thing you know, something is closed because a bunch of drunk idiots destroyed something.

I have spent my whole life seeing this happen every time off-road become a fad. You should have seen the water areas when boats and jet skies became a fad. Then it was sand toys, side by sides, JK's and now remote camping. The camper and travel trailer industry boomed in my area, used travel trailers and motor homes were selling for close to new prices and new ones went up drastically.
What happened to everyone staying home?

 

[ThundahBeagle]

i read the same not much happening here in the US it's mainly in other countries

"If you dont like the weather in New England, wait a minute."

Maybe a better quote is "like the Rabbi said the delivery room: 'it won't be long now...'" or monkey see monkey do.

I worry that what happens in one place, will soon happen in another.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Leave it to the gov’t to ruin another form of recreation. They’ll mandate only camping in a tent or newer model RV in a designated campsite only. Plus, the environmentalist would love to close the nat’l forests.

If you see what's going on at Gallatin Gateway Island, an island in a river that a developer wants to turn into a "glamping" retreat. In order to do so, he wants to drill under the river and to the island in order to get electrical and plumbing utilities installed. The island is a flood zone as well. The government there has every right to deny the permits but has not done so. Other under-river drilling ventures have been documented to cause issues.

So, either the environmentalists win and he will not be able to build his glam campsite on an island in a river and people can continue roughing it there, or the government and enterprise wins, and this guy will have circumvented government regulations in order to presumably become one of the sanctioned places where "camping" will only be allowed in a certain type of camper, for probably a ridiculous fee, but no more roughing it there

 

[Deleted member 59857]

I am all for more camping and more people doing it. We need people to be exposed to our lands. After all, we all pay for it.
Most people will not disperse camp. There is an increase across the board, but that increase is not the issue.

For all that think it's b.s. and the land will go back after the damage done, in many cases it's not true or it was a real fight by groups like the BRC.
I'm not criticizing anyone here. But there are assumptions and there is reality.

Also, everyone here knows that land damage can last decades or more.
As a group, the environmental lobbyists don't distinguish between a remote "overlander" camping in the outback and some punter in Joshua Tree dumping trash and feces all over creation.
They just want to close access, and feel very justified in doing it.

This is a hot topic, so i'm going to stop posting on it. Only to say, the actions of everyone has an effect.